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Question - Curtiss P-40F/L 1/72 MPM 72068


diamant

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Hello,

 

We are doing an interesting collection of P40 in 1/72 scale and we have two L and two F models to do.

 

rhttps://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235102551-curtiss-p40-series-raul-hrubisko-172-scale/ Inspection - Aircraft - Britmodeller.com

 

  • Kittyhawk II (P-40F-CU)  FL220   Uk 1-ago-42
  • Kittyhawk II (P-40F-CU)  FL234 HS-A 260 SQN   
  • Kittyhawk P-40L-5CU FS4525  Takoradi 
  • Kittyhawk P-40L-5CU FS490 BAE 3 RAAF Squadron WGCDR Brain Eaton Italy 

 

 

As per what I understood the P-40L was a lightened version of the P-40F.

 

I wonder if someone could confirm that the mentioned kit from MPM is accurate to do the F and the L version.

 

Thank you very much

 

Santiago

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Dear Santiago,

 

The old MPM kit which is still available under the Special Hobby label seems to be quite accurate. Of course, it requires more skill than a standard P-40 kit such as Hasegawa or Academy. But I know that you and your Dad are skilled modellers and meeting these requirements. I would recommend getting a set of different wheels for each one you plan to do since the one that are in the kit have to be put together from two parts and do not look accurate.

 

Also note that the P-40Fs have a short tail whereas the P-40Ls are long tail versions. The Kittyhawks with FL codes were short tail P-40Fs and those with FS codes are long tail. Both were known as Kittyhawk Mk.II in RAF service. The long tail versions were delivered as a light version with only two guns in each wing. However, some of them were re-equipped by RAF armourers in the field.

 

Best Regards,

 

Martin

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That kit is not the same as the current Special Hobby offering, it's an earlier kit that covered a long tail aircraft.

SH later issued a newer kit, much better moulded, in both short and long tail form. They also issued a box with one of each:

https://www.super-hobby.it/products/P-40F-L-and-Kittyhawk-Mk.IIA-RAF-and-RAFL-2-in-1.html

 

This later kit is not as refined as the latest P-40s from the same company but is IMHO pretty good and can be built easily enough. The older MPM kit is much rougher

 

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7 hours ago, 112 Squadron said:

Also note that the P-40Fs have a short tail whereas the P-40Ls are long tail versions. The Kittyhawks with FL codes were short tail P-40Fs and those with FS codes are long tail. Both were known as Kittyhawk Mk.II in RAF service. The long tail versions were delivered as a light version with only two guns in each wing. However, some of them were re-equipped by RAF armourers in the field.

Although in the case of these specific 4 aircraft these rules work, but remember that NOT ALL P-40L had a long tail.

The first 50 a/c (42-10430/10479) were P-40L-1 with a short tail and 6 MGs.

As far as I know, none of them went to the RAF, but a few flew in the RNZAF and in the Free French Squadron.

Cheers

Michael

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On 5/31/2022 at 6:04 AM, KRK4m said:

Although in the case of these specific 4 aircraft these rules work, but remember that NOT ALL P-40L had a long tail.

The first 50 a/c (42-10430/10479) were P-40L-1 with a short tail and 6 MGs.

As far as I know, none of them went to the RAF, but a few flew in the RNZAF and in the Free French Squadron.

Cheers

Michael

Michael

 

This is actually incorrect, the L models were all long tailed (as much as the older books state otherwise - one of those long propagated myths on the P-40). There are some photos around showing the early L models having long tailed, and most L models in RAF service had 6 guns (although shipped as a 4 gun wing, the extra guns were shipped as well, similar to the P-40N-1's).   F models were Kittyhawk II, the L models Kittyhawk IIa in RAF service and the RNZAF had a single L model, which was quickly sent back to the USAAF as it wasn't a type they flew (NZ3074).

 

Buz

Edited by Buz
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, 

 

Thank you very much to all of your for your comments.

 

Now I have a better idea about how to deal with our selected L/F P40´s. In this case if I understood correctly we have

 

Kittyhawk II (P-40F-CU)  FL220   Uk 1-ago-42      SHORT TAIL

Kittyhawk II (P-40F-CU)  FL234 HS-A 260 SQN    SHORT TAIL

Kittyhawk P-40L-5CU FS4525  Takoradi                LONG TAIL

Kittyhawk P-40L-5CU FS490 BAE 3 RAAF Squadron WGCDR Brain Eaton Italy  LONG TAIL

 

 

Cheers

Santiago

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On 5/30/2022 at 2:09 PM, 112 Squadron said:

Dear Santiago,

 

 

 

Also note that the P-40Fs have a short tail whereas the P-40Ls are long tail versions. The Kittyhawks with FL codes were short tail P-40Fs and those with FS codes are long tail. Both were known as Kittyhawk Mk.II in RAF service. The long tail versions were delivered as a light version with only two guns in each wing. However, some of them were re-equipped by RAF armourers in the field.

 

Best Regards,

 

Martin


only the P40F-1(41-13600/14299 had short tail , from P40F-5(41-14300)and up et all P40L had long tail

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On 12/06/2022 at 23:06, BS_w said:


only the P40F-1(41-13600/14299 had short tail , from P40F-5(41-14300)and up et all P40L had long tail

 

This is correct only the first 699 P-40Fs had short tails. I was actually referring only to those P-40s that saw service with the RAF under the designation Kittyhawk Mk. II. The initial batch of P-40Fs slated for service with the Desert Air Force had codes in the range of FL219-FL448. All of these aircraft were early P40F-1s. 80 of those machines were diverted to the USAAF and 21 were lost at sea en route to the theatre of operations. The remainder served with No 3 RAAF and No 260 squadron. Later a second batch of Kittyhawk Mk IIs, the IIa version, saw service with the Commonwealth forces in North Africa. These aircraft were P-40L-5s with long tails and had the code letters in the range of FS400 to FS499 . 

Edited by 112 Squadron
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P-40F 41-13600 to 13695, 41-13697 to 14299, total 699, 41-13696 used for static tests, the serial listed as a cancelled contract.  Shorter fuselage.  P-40F-5 and later lengthened fuselage.  P-40K, K-1, K-5 shorter fuselage, K-10 onwards lengthened fuselage.  P-40L lengthened fuselage.

 

Mark II/IIA

RAF FL219 to 368, total 150 P-40F, USAAF serials between 41-13752 and 41-14065
RAF FS400 to 430, FS433 to 457, total 56, P-40L-5, USAAF serials between 42-10519 and 42-10637
RAF FS431 and 432, FS458 to 499, total 44, P-40L-10, USAAF serials between 42-10736 and 42-10793

 

Mark III

RAF FL710 to 713, FL875 to 882, FL884 to 905, FR111 to 115, FR210 to 361, total 191 P-40K-1
RAF FL714 to 730, FR116 to 140, FR385 to 392, FR412, FR413, total 52 P-40K-5.
RAF FR414 to 459, total 46 P-40K-10
RAF FR472 to 521, total 50 P-40K-15
RAF FR779 to 828, total 50 P-40M-5
RAF FR829 to 872, total 44 P-40M-10

 

P-40L "Similar to the P-40F except for improved equipment.  (Redesignated P-40L-1-CU)."
P-40L-5 Serials 42-10480 to 10699 "redesignated due to the removal of two .50 cal. outboard wing guns and front wing tank (37 gallons)"
P-40L-10 Serials 42-10700 to 10848 "Relocated auxiliary fuel pump; sheet metal carburettor air intake elbow; deletion of coolant tank armour, propeller warning light, aileron electrical trim tab, coolant warning light, pilot's tube, data case and wing walkway; relocation of parking harness, droppable sway braces for 75 gallon belly tank."

 

RAF Serial Registers,
FL220, Taken on Charge 28 May 1942, UK, Category E 20 May 1944.
FL234, Taken on Charge 19 May 1942, Middle East, Category E 11 November 1942
FS452, Taken on Charge 18 March 1943, Struck Off Charge 29 February 1944.
FS490, Taken on Charge 20 May 1943.

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21 hours ago, BS_w said:

 

700,

you forget 41-13600 was the first and 13601 to 14299, 699  😉

 

No, I did not count 41-13696 which was a static test airframe only:

 

https://www.uswarplanes.net/p40.pdf

 

But you are right it was also a short tail P-40F even though it never flew. 

 

Edited by 112 Squadron
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11 hours ago, 112 Squadron said:

 

No, I did not count 41-13696 which was a static test airframe only: https://www.uswarplanes.net/p40.pdf

 

Thank God - by citing us.warplanes.net as a source on which to rely on, you have built up my awareness.

Because it is from here that I quoted the information about the first 50 P-40L with a short fuselage:

 

P-40L     As P-40F, lightweight version, 4 wing guns. 50 with “short” fuselage, 650 with “long” fuselage...

 

Cheers

Michael

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6 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Thank God - by citing us.warplanes.net as a source on which to rely on, you have built up my awareness.

Because it is from here that I quoted the information about the first 50 P-40L with a short fuselage:

 

P-40L     As P-40F, lightweight version, 4 wing guns. 50 with “short” fuselage, 650 with “long” fuselage...

 

Cheers

Michael

Michael

 

I'd really take this source with a grain of salt. I won't pull every error it has in it but some of the details are incorrect (propagation of circular reporting errors lets call it). Three that stand out really quickly are the information on E-1,  K and L models.

Kittyhawk Mk. IA
RAF Lend-Lease version of the 6-gun
P-40E. USAAF designation P-40E-1.

 

Their big miss here is that the last 500 airframes of the E-1 model had Fin Fillets (ala Short tailed K models), makes it really hard to tell the difference between the K-1/5 and the late E-1's unless you can see the serial number or know what to look for and even then it can stump you (often does). There are other things on the E-1 that help you tell the difference between it and the RAF version but its getting into nitty gritty).

 

P-40K

- As P-40E, engine / armament upgrade.
200 with “short” fuselage, 1100 with “long”
fuselage.

 

The information on the K models is factually incorrect, as there were 600 K-1 models all with short fuselage and fin fillets, and 200 K-5 models with the same set up, only when you reach the K-10 models does the long fuselage start, thus this should read "800 with "short" fuselage and 500 with "Long fuselage"

 

P-40L
As P-40F, lightweight version, 4 wing guns.
50 with “short” fuselage, 650 with “long”
fuselage.

 

I can write a whole blurb here on short vs long fuselages for the L models, but pictures speak louder I believe, so I'll leave you to make up you own mind from the attached link. https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/P-40/332FG/pages/USAAF-42-10461-Curtiss-P-40L-Warhawk-332FG99FS-White-A19-1Lt-Charles-Bailey-Madna-Italy-Jan-1944-01.html (there are others but this was the only photo I could find on the web on short notice (I have others in my collection and my references). To help P-40L-1CU serials run 42-10430 to 42-10479.

 

My info on the above comes from primary source documents and photos.

 

Buz

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I can only agree with @Buz , there are often errors in such lists that are perpetuated in aviation literature. I primarily quoted from that source since it shows the fate of 41-13696 whereas other P-40 production lists simply state that this particular aircraft was canceled.

 

A far more accurate list with technical specifications of the individual P-40 subtypes and batches can be found in Osprey Air Vanguard No 11. According to that list the P-40L-1s had a length of 33ft 4in which equals the later -5, -10, -15 and -20 batches.

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USAAF P-40 designations.

 

Some notes on https://www.uswarplanes.net/p40.pdf

 

The production total of 13,739 is correct but the USAAF counts the XP-40, has 199 P-40 and 1 P-40G, has 22 P-40D and 1 XP-40F, also 5,219 P-40N and 1 XP-40Q.  The PDF counts the P-40F static test airframe 41-13696.

 

As far as the US is concerned production types were the XP-40, P-40, Tomahawk I, IIA and IIB (or Hawk 81A etc.), P-40B, P-40C, P-40D, Kittyhawk I (Hawk 87A etc.), P-40E,  XP-40F, P-40F, P-40G, P-40K, P-40L, P-40M, P-40N and XP-40Q, foreign air forces received P-40E, F, K, L M and N, not Kittyhawk II etc.  Everything else is considered a conversion.

 

The RAF allocated P-40 serials in the US meaning those lost at sea had RAF serials, the RAAF allocated serials on arrival, omitting those lost en route.  No information on lost at sea for non British Empire/Commonwealth shipments.

 

The PDF notes P-40G conversions under the P-40 entry but not in the conversions and transfers list.  The PDF presentation of the P-40F and later, if you count the USAAF serials they are more than the number given as the total, as the aircraft listed as sent to the RAF are deducted from the total, but only those to the RAF.  The list of non USAAF and RAF users is counting serials allocated by the users, not deliveries in the US and/or shipments.  P-40 that ended up in South Africa were diversions from RAF orders, done by the British. Similarly the P-40 transferred to France, Turkey and Egypt, they were ex RAF machines.

 

P-40F and earlier shorter fuselage.  P-40F-5 and later lengthened fuselage.  P-40K, K-1, K-5 shorter fuselage, K-10 onwards lengthened fuselage.  P-40L and later lengthened fuselage.

 

The designations P-40E-1 and K-1 predate block numbers, they are the US designation for the export version.  When it comes to shipments to Russia there were those sent on British (Britain for Russia) account and those on Russian account.

 

XP-40, 1 built, accepted December 1938, serial 38-10.

P-40, 199 built May to October 1940.

Tomahawk I, 140 built June to October 1940, I have not seen any RAF documents stating modified Tomahawk I became Tomahawk II.  12 lost at sea

Tomahawk IIA, 110 built October and November 1940, 1 lost at sea, 24 to Russia from Britain.

Tomahawk IIB, 930 built November 1940 to July 1941, none to South Africa or Australia, South African and Australian units flew them in the Middle East.  41 lost at sea, 147 to Russia from Britain, 49 to Russia from US, 100 to China.

 

P-40B, 131 built February to May 1941, but only 1 per month in April and May.

P-40C, 193 built March to May 1942, deliveries, 167 USAAF, 26 Russia (10 on British account)

P-40D, 22 built May and June 1941.

P-40E 819 built June 1941 to January 1942 plus 1 in April 1942, total 820, deliveries, 689 USAAF, 131 Russia

Kittyhawk I 560 built August to December 1941, 2 lost at sea, 72 to Canada.

P-40E-1/Kittyhawk IA, 1,500 built December 1941 to June 1942.  The US considered all Commonwealth/Empire E-1 for Britain, and so lists deliveries as 315 USAAF, 444 Britain (34 lost at sea including those for Australia), 708 Russia (not all exported), 6 Brazil, 27 China. From the “Britain” total there were 143 shipped for Australia, with 14 lost at sea, the 129 that arrived plus some meant for the Netherlands East Indies plus USAAF P-40E shipments were mixed, matched, swapped between the RAAF and USAAF, plus some P-40E loaned to the RAAF to replace those lost at sea. So both ended up with a mix of E and D-1.  44 E-1 arrived in New Zealand, plus theatre transfers.  12 E-1 to Canada.

 

XP-40F, 1 built, accepted June 1942, serial 40-360.

P-40F, 1,311 built January 1942 to January 1943, deliveries 150 Britain (Kittyhawk IIA FL219 to 368, 21 lost at sea), 1,161 to USAAF.

P-40G, 1 built, accepted July 1940, serial 39-221, to Russia

P-40K-1, 600 built May to September 1942, deliveries, 336 USAAF, 191 Britain (Kittyhawk III, FL710 to 713, FL875 to 882, FL884 to 905, FR111 to 115, FR210 to 361), 73 Russia.

 

P-40K-5, -10, -15, 700 built August to December 1942, deliveries, 44 Australia (4 lost at sea), 30 Brazil, 148 Britain (Kittyhawk III FL714 to 730, FR116 to 140, FR385 to 392, FR412 to 459, FR472 to 521, FR779 to 872, 5 lost at sea), 14 China, 22 New Zealand, 241 Russia, 537 USAAF.

 

P-40L, 700 built January to April 1943, deliveries 100 Britain (Kittyhawk II FS400 to 499), 600 USAAF

P-40M 600 built November 1942 to February 1943, deliveries, 96 Australia, 2 lost at sea, another 4 arrived so badly damaged they were scrapped, with 2 of them given serials first. Deliveries, 10 Brazil, 94 Britain (Kittyhawk III FR779 to FR872), 170 Britain for Russia (FS100 to 269), 15 Canada, 15 China, 35 New Zealand, 50 Russia, 115 USAAF.

 

P-40N, 5,219 built March 1943 to November 1944, deliveries 546 Australia (serials A29-812 to 818 were renumbered 698 to 704, as they were N-20, the change meant  600 to 704 were N-20, 800 to 828 were N-25 (less 812 to 818)).  456 Britain (Kittyhawk IV, FT849 to 954, FX498 to 847, 19 lost at sea), 130 Britain for Russia (FS270 to 399), 35 Canada, 321 China, 77 Netherlands East Indies, 175 New Zealand, 850 Russia, 2,588 USAAF.

 

XP-40Q, 1 built, accepted April 1944, serial 43-24571.

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