Jump to content

1943 P-47D-1 cockpit equipment questions


elger
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello all,

 

I'm looking into some details pertaining to specific cockpit equipment of a P-47D-1. The aircraft in question is 42-7924 and it was Mike Sobanski's aircraft in the late summer/fall of 1943 serving with the 334th Fighter Squadron out of England.

 

I have three issues at this point that I'm trying to figure out.

 

1) this might be an easy one but I'm having a hard time with it: what is the type of gun sight fitted to the aircraft? This photo from americanairmuseum.com shows it fitted, but what type is it?

 

J2JjBKp.jpg

 

2) The right side of the cockpit was dedicated to radio equipment. A photo in P-47 Thunderbolt In Detail and Scale shows a type of IFF box fitted (black with five red switches on top that's also seen in Spitfire and Mosquito cockpits). Would 42-7924 have this type of box given the context it was operating in?

 

3YrMFwD.png

 

3) On ww2aircraft.net there was a discussion about a box fitted on the left hand side of the cockpit between the throttle quadrant and the instruments panel. There's photos of two types of boxes and they are different depending on what type of propeller was fitted: the Hamilton Hydromatic or the (late) Curtiss electric. Would the D-1, fitted with early (pointy) Curtiss Electric propeller blades have a control box there and, if so, what did it look like? https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/p-47d-25-re-cockpit-box.55818/

 

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1. MkII British gunsight - standard issue at ETO.

2. Yes, but it is control box for SCR-522 radio.

3. It will be switch box for CE propeller, of course. You can see it in the pictures in the link You provided.

Edited by greatgonzo
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, greatgonzo said:

1. MkII British gunsight - standard issue at ETO.

2. Yes, but it is control box for SCR-522 radio.

3. It will be switch box for CE propeller, of course. You can see it in the pictures in the link You provided.

 

Very helpful, thanks!

#1 answered - thanks. #2 also clear - I don't know why I thought it was IFF but SCR-522 radio makes more sense but you're saying they were fitted to ETO P-47s?

 

And #3 - I figured indeed that there would have been a box like that for the late Curtiss Electric propellers as seen in the photos, but the aircraft fitted with the earl Curtiss Electric propellers would have the same box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3. Yeah, E&M agrees with You :).

1. You mean SCR-522 radios? Yes, VHF radios where used at ETO long before first USAAF aircraft took off of the British soil. Americans had to adapt and did.

Edited by greatgonzo
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that D-1s had SCR522 retro-fitted in Europe. I would think that the small box was present, but its actual position would be determined at unit level, and probably different from what seen on later blocks.

Also IIRC, D-1s still had wire antennas and ceramic insulators on the fuselage, and you have to verify if these were removed or not after installing SCR522. For an example, Capt.London's "El Jeepo" had SCR522 installed insulators removed and skin patched.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, greatgonzo said:

3. Yeah, E&M agrees with You :).

1. You mean SCR-522 radios? Yes, VHF radios where used at ETO long before first USAAF aircraft took off of the British soil. Americans had to adapt and did.

 

E&M?

 

There's a nice copy of a training video on YouTube with what looks like a D-5 and this shows a lot of the cockpit features in nice features but they don't reference that propeller box as they go through the starting / take off procedures.

40 minutes ago, steh2o said:

I believe that D-1s had SCR522 retro-fitted in Europe. I would think that the small box was present, but its actual position would be determined at unit level, and probably different from what seen on later blocks.

Also IIRC, D-1s still had wire antennas and ceramic insulators on the fuselage, and you have to verify if these were removed or not after installing SCR522. For an example, Capt.London's "El Jeepo" had SCR522 installed insulators removed and skin patched.

is there any way to tell if the photos above are the only close ups I have?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

E&M - Erection & Maintenance Instructions.

 

Quote

I believe that D-1s had SCR522 retro-fitted in Europe.

Possible but doubtful. The radio specification for aircraft send overseas states SCR-522 as standard equipment for fighters going to ETO. Both, assembled and crated.

 

 

Quote

is there any way to tell if the photos above are the only close ups I have?

There isn't. The insulators were not removed and it was at unit level to deal with them or not. That is AFAIK.

As stated above, both versions are seen on the operational aircraft. Looking for other ships of the same time frame and unit is a way to get some educated guess if no pics of  chosen plane available. As usual :).

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/26/2022 at 1:38 PM, elger said:

 

 

 

And #3 - I figured indeed that there would have been a box like that for the late Curtiss Electric propellers as seen in the photos, but the aircraft fitted with the earl Curtiss Electric propellers would have the same box.

 

@greatgonzo #3 revisited... I was looking at the photos again trying to work out the dimensions of that box, but then I came across some info of someone saying that on early P-47s the propeller controls switch located on the main switch board. This can be seen in the P-47 pilot's manual - here is the main switch board of a P-47B:

 

98EItyc.png

 

And it actually is mentioned in that P-47 training film as well:

 

UCPdMNb.png

 

In one of the shots of the film, as the pilot enters the plane, a stencil on the cockpit behind him states "P-47D-5" but of course with editing you can't be sure if these detail shots of the interior are that same airframe.

 

Then in the P-47 pilots manual for the P-47 C, D and G the main switch box looks slightly different in the upper left corner, but there is also no mentioning of a separate box with a switch for the propeller.

 

zURptZg.png

 

So I'm still a bit confused then about the configuration of a D-1...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point! Never occurred to me before. Had to check. Seems the separate switch box is a later issue starting with D-20. With D-1 You are safe to go for switch and circuit breaker on the main board.

Thanks for that!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/29/2022 at 9:40 AM, elger said:

 

@greatgonzo #3 revisited... I was looking at the photos again trying to work out the dimensions of that box, but then I came across some info of someone saying that on early P-47s the propeller controls switch located on the main switch board. This can be seen in the P-47 pilot's manual - here is the main switch board of a P-47B:

 

98EItyc.png

 

And it actually is mentioned in that P-47 training film as well:

 

UCPdMNb.png

 

In one of the shots of the film, as the pilot enters the plane, a stencil on the cockpit behind him states "P-47D-5" but of course with editing you can't be sure if these detail shots of the interior are that same airframe.

 

Then in the P-47 pilots manual for the P-47 C, D and G the main switch box looks slightly different in the upper left corner, but there is also no mentioning of a separate box with a switch for the propeller.

 

zURptZg.png

 

So I'm still a bit confused then about the configuration of a D-1...

 

The type shown in the training video, which like you said is probably of a D-5, is the same main switch panel which was used from the P-47D-1-RE up to the D-5-RE ( not including D-5 ). The separate panel insert on the top left just has the propeller switch and a CB for it just below the switch.

 

What kit are you building?

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

 

The type shown in the training video, which like you said is probably of a D-5, is the same main switch panel which was used from the P-47D-1-RE up to the D-5-RE. The separate panel insert on the top left just has the propeller switch and a CB for it just below the switch.

 

What kit are you building?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm having a go at the big Trumpeter kit

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, elger said:

 

I'm having a go at the big Trumpeter kit

 

Nice, I haven't built the kit but looks like a bit of work then to make an accurate D-1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tbolt said:

 

Nice, I haven't built the kit but looks like a bit of work then to make an accurate D-1.

 

I'm figuring out the cockpit details here. I'm making an educated leap of faith that the D-1 I'm building was retrofitted with the deeper keel while in service, because I don't feel like addressing that issue. Cowl flaps are a bit different, and I'm getting rid of or not fitting any of the details associated with wing pylons, but other than that I'm not aware of any major issues that would make it problematic to build a D-1 out of the kit - anything major I'm overlooking?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, elger said:

 

I'm figuring out the cockpit details here. I'm making an educated leap of faith that the D-1 I'm building was retrofitted with the deeper keel while in service, because I don't feel like addressing that issue. I'm getting rid of or not fitting any of the details associated with wing pylons, but other than that I'm not aware of any major issues that would make it problematic to build a D-1 out of the kit - anything major I'm overlooking?

 

Like I said I don't own the kit but if you are going with the bugled keel that makes things a lot easier. So other than the changes you've mentioned it looks like you need to replace the rudder pedals, modify the cowl flaps and remove the oil cooler outlet doors ( though these last two were retro fitted to some earlier aircraft ). Are you going with the kit engine as it looks like Trumpeter have not supplied thr correct distributors either?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tbolt said:

 

Like I said I don't own the kit but if you are going with the bugled keel that makes things a lot easier. So other than the changes you've mentioned it looks like you need to replace the rudder pedals, modify the cowl flaps and remove the oil cooler outlet doors ( though these last two were retro fitted to some earlier aircraft ). Are you going with the kit engine as it looks like Trumpeter have not supplied thr correct distributors either?

 

I've got the Eduard interior set which takes care of the rudder pedals. Wasn't aware of the oil cooler outlet doors - will check to see if there's photos. Trumpeter gives you two options for the engine front and distributors; it was my understanding that the earlier P-47s were equipped with the smooth front and parts S6 as the distributors, as seen in the instructions here:

wFVO6bm.png

 

Or was there another type that I should be looking for?

 

Speaking of engine variations - the instructions also provide options for different looking cylinder heads - single part R4 or S5/R5 put together.

 

sj3otfO.png

 

I'm going to be building it with the cowl closed so you probably won't be able to tell - but do you know what the difference is with these?

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, elger said:

 

I've got the Eduard interior set which takes care of the rudder pedals. Wasn't aware of the oil cooler outlet doors - will check to see if there's photos. Trumpeter gives you two options for the engine front and distributors; it was my understanding that the earlier P-47s were equipped with the smooth front and parts S6 as the distributors, as seen in the instructions here:

wFVO6bm.png

 

Or was there another type that I should be looking for?

 

Speaking of engine variations - the instructions also provide options for different looking cylinder heads - single part R4 or S5/R5 put together.

 

sj3otfO.png

 

I'm going to be building it with the cowl closed so you probably won't be able to tell - but do you know what the difference is with these?

 

 

 

Yes you want the one piece front housing, but S6 the turtleback mags were used on later Thunderbolts from the D-20. Every version before that used the teardrop shape one's not included in the kit, pictured below ( on a 21- which is the applicable version for your D-1 ). The hexagonal distributors, S3 along with the multi part front housing in the kit are not applicable to the P-47D at all, they were only used on the P47M and N.

 

Pratt_&_Whitney_R-2800_Engine_1.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, BS_w said:

 I found this for electrical box

 

spacer.png

 

The panel marked as D1 in that image is actually D1-RE to D-5-RE, it says it on the drawing, though that copy is too blurred to read. It also covers the D-RE, though that panel is a different part number but looks the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...