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Lotus 25 (1:20) 1963 F1 WDC Jim Clark


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Lots of Alclad II airbrushing to try to get a bit of nuanced and realistic variety for the various metal parts.

First the monocoque which I've sprayed all the internal exposed sheet metal in ALC-103 Dark Aluminium, the front oil tank and the three radiator pipes in ALC-106 "White Aluminium" and the lower suspension arms are "Stainless Steel" which I have used on all the various suspension linkages: 

20220527_150030.jpg

The overlapping areas of green paint are based on reference images of several Lotus 25s so hopefully they are OK.

 

A bit of dry fitting to see how it all goes together:

20220527_142133.jpg20220527_142127.jpg

The seat, dash and steering wheel all need their dark red leather colourings next.

 

 

Not painted the valve covers on the engine yet and I think I will give the whole engine a faint mist of one of the gold hued metallics to make it match the reference images I have (and so it contrasts a little with the monocoque sheet alu):

20220527_142101.jpg

 

Whole thing is starting to look like a lotus!

20220527_142052.jpg

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The Tamiya masking tape worked fine to mask most of the green outer parts except on the flat bottom...

20220527_150127.jpg

 

This area wasn't the most recently painted and it is lacquer paint that cures fast so shouldn't have been an issue.

Anyone had this before and have some advice on how to avoid it?

 

To get rid of it I think I'll wipe it over with some IPA on a cotton wool bud then polish it down with the tamiya course polishing compound.... hopefully I can achieve a nice smooth finish.

 

Edited by Flying Badger
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Hi Malc,

Edited the post with a larger scale photo so the detail of the problem is clearer.... The lines in the paint are from the masking tape and it's left a roughened surface to the paint.

 

Quote

Also the underside between the coolant pipes on the real car was unpainted aluminium

 

All the info I have was that it was painted... but if you have a better source or a reference image for that I'd be really interested?

 

 

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22 hours ago, Flying Badger said:

The Tamiya masking tape worked fine to mask most of the green outer parts except on the flat bottom...

 

This area wasn't the most recently painted and it is lacquer paint that cures fast so shouldn't have been an issue.

Anyone had this before and have some advice on how to avoid it?

 

To get rid of it I think I'll wipe it over with some IPA on a cotton wool bud then polish it down with the tamiya course polishing compound.... hopefully I can achieve a nice smooth finish.

 

Nice progress there,

What make/type of paint did you use for the green gloss coat?

I find that after spraying a gloss coat ( I always only use tamiya lacquer paints thinned with lacquer thinner and retarder) it is best to leave it for 1-2 weeks to out gas and harden before applying any masking tape, then I only use tamiya masking tape and I reduce the "tackiness of it by sticking it to my hand first.

The weather can also affect the drying time of the paint, if the air is humid it can take longer.

If you are going to repaint after removing the paint, it will probably be best not to use the polishing compound as it may affect the new paint layers.

I would leave as is for a few days and then lightly sand it back with 1000 grit until the graininess has gone then repaint.

HTH

Best regards

Keith.

 

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14 hours ago, Flying Badger said:

Edited the post with a larger scale photo so the detail of the problem is clearer.... The lines in the paint are from the masking tape and it's left a roughened surface to the paint.

All the info I have was that it was painted... but if you have a better source or a reference image for that I'd be really interested?

Thats better, thanks!

Here is why I think it was unpainted:- The only picture I have seen of the underside of a Lotus in period. Paul Hawkins car being recovered from Monaco harbour.

Its a Lotus 33, but I can't see that the 25 would be any different given Colin Chapmans obsession for weight reduction - why paint somthing that will never be seen?

Could you share your info showing that it was painted?

bottom.jpg

The only suggestion I would make is to sand or scrape the paint off and start again. IPA requires time to work, so would probably affect the surrounding paint and make it worse.

 

Malc.

Edited by Malc2
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Hi Malc,

 

Thanks for the photo that is really useful on several fronts.. I was searching for Lotus 25 crash photos for exactly that reason. I had exactly the same thought about weight saving by not painting areas that were unseen - in fact that was also my reasoning on painting the inside of the monocoque as raw sheet alu rather than the dark grey paint that the surviving cars are now painted. The grey paint seems to be a modern addition and isn't consistent throughout all the surviving cars which makes me think it's been applied as a corrosion barrier. There is no way Chapman would have painted the inside of the cars if there wasn't an engineering reason so raw alu seemed more likely. Your suggestion about the underside therefore makes a lot of sense to me.

Given that chassis R8 in this photo is one of the Lotus 25 spec chassis that were used for the first Lotus 33 spec I find that even more convincing.

 

The Colour of your photo is a bit harder to interpret as a monochrome image but the average grey value of the area between the pipes in the photo is slightly lighter than the average grey value of the sides of the monocoque suggesting the underside was lighter in colour which would correlate with the underside being un-painted. Although the angle of the car relative to the light source and camera is such that you are getting a lot of reflectance on the flat underside of the car which could also be lightening the appearance. 

 

Given the damaged paint on my model and the couple of chips in the Alclad on the underside pipes, I think I will gently sand / polish off the roughness on the green paint and then re-do it in Alclad's dark aluminium to match the rest of the monocoque before touching up the pipes in white alu - might add a touch of gold to them to give them more contrast at the same time. Also from the photo it looks like the front end of the pipes have rubber pipes connecting to the radiator and there is that pipe support band half way down the chassis (I'd guess on both sides but the - neither are reproduced in the Tamiya kit so I'll take the opportunity to add something in.

Edited by Flying Badger
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Found another image from a few seconds earlier of them recovering that car on Getty Images

 

the-dw-racing-enterprises-lotus-33-clima

In this one the bottom of the car is at a flatter angle so you get less reflectance lightening the look of the bottom of the car. The sides of the car and the bottom look to be the same colour in this one and in considerable contrast the bare metal of the radiator pipes. 

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Thats interesting!

I still don't believe Colin Chapman would agree to the bottom of the car being painted green, especialy as we know the inside of the tub was painted grey.

My take would be the water washing across the surface is giving a false impression of the colour.

But at the end of the day its your model - your choice!

 

M.

Edited by Malc2
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Not entirely sure now which way to go now.

 

I polished out the paint that was roughened by the masking tape working my way up from 3000 to 12000 micromesh and the finish on the green is good and hasn't penetrated through to the primer. I could leave it green or just paint the polished surface with a layer of alclad dark alu.

 

In order to avoid sanding the pipes I sanded/polished from front to back and that has introduced some very subtle striations which look just like the sort of high speed scratch marks the cars pick up on their underside when racing.... I'm not sure I could have got this effect just right if I had intentionally tried to produce it! That and the second photo has me leaning towards leaving it green with the striations rather than loose them by painting it Alu. I guess it's not too major an issue as the bottom of the model will rarely be seen when it's in the display case / desk.

 

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I'd definitely vote green judging from the second picture. I think the former is just the light catching it; and in any case still looks to be a different tone to the radiator pipes. I'm also lazy so would tend to stick with a decent job that already existed! I agree it doesn't seem particularly chapman-esque, although Hawkins wasn't driving a works car, right? I dunno enough (or anything) about the subject to make a comment on that.

These images also suggest green to me:

paulhawkins1965monaco.jpg

https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1965-monaco-grand-prix-1013573563/1013573563/

 

The latter most clearly, although looking closely, there does appear a lighter patch on the angled section between the radiator pipes and the bottom surface, so perhaps it could be interpreted as aluminum coated in dirt?

I'd messed around looking for a good image of a lotus going airborne over the flugplatz, but that was a dead end, I just ended up watching youtube footage instead of working!

 

Good save on the paint by the way. I'm mentally storing that for when I have the same issue!

 

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Ngantek, that second image is amazing... must be in the half a second as the car flies through the air en-route to the harbour! The photographer must have got really lucky to get the shot and have it in focus (in 1965 without auto-focus on an SLR) etc.

 

There is another image I've seen taken at almost the same instant but from the harbour side that shows straw flying everywhere as the car and driver fly towards the water but in that one the photographer didn't get as lucky in having the camera set up at coincidentally just the correct focus, shutter speed etc. so it's got motion blur / poor focus making it harder to make out details in the image. 

 

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Grey or alu cockpit? personally I have been leaning against grey as I found most pictures showing a dark shade but when I look at this colour picture from Monaco 1963

https://primotipo.com/2015/03/03/lotus-25-jim-clark-monaco-1963/

I have changed my mind. It do have the sheen of metal but is still very dark. I must look into the different alu paints that I have.

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40 minutes ago, Orso said:

Grey or alu cockpit? personally I have been leaning against grey as I found most pictures showing a dark shade but when I look at this colour picture from Monaco 1963

https://primotipo.com/2015/03/03/lotus-25-jim-clark-monaco-1963/

I have changed my mind. It do have the sheen of metal but is still very dark. I must look into the different alu paints that I have.

 

Yes I had exactly the same thoughts: Initially assuming the kit instructions were wrong and that the inside should be grey due to the photos of surviving Lotus 25s and 33s. However, several images from the 60's including the one you linked suggest that the inside was raw sheet metal and that therefore the grey paint was added later.

 

That makes sense if we consider the changing motivations for those preparing the cars.... originally the cars weight would have been the critical factor for racing, but now as heritage cars those maintaining them are more motivated by preserving the vehicle and so corrosion becomes a more significant concern than weight - a paint layer that is similar in colour to the raw alu (i.e. the dark grey seen in photos) would preserve the general look whilst also providing some corrosion protection.

 

So I guess it depends on when you are intending to depict the car. As originally raced I think raw alu, or in current appearance: a mid to dark grey.

 

As for metallic paints - Alclad II really are excellent for realistic appearances at scale.

Edited by Flying Badger
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I'll try to remember to post a list of what Alclad colours and other paints I used on which parts once all the painting is done as a future guide/starting point for others (and as an aide memoire for me when I come to build the Lotus 33)

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2 hours ago, Flying Badger said:

Ngantek, that second image is amazing... must be in the half a second as the car flies through the air en-route to the harbour! The photographer must have got really lucky to get the shot and have it in focus (in 1965 without auto-focus on an SLR) etc.

Yeah it's crazy isn't it? The more I look at that one though, the more I suspect it might be a very dirty aluminium surface. It seems to me that there's a shade and, more importantly, texture difference between the bottom and side. The lighter angled portion is also inconsistently shaded, as one might expect. It would have to be excessively dirty though. Anyone seen pictures of a 60s F1 car underside after a race?

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Well that has triggered some interesting finds.

The reason I say grey cockpit interior are the closeups of the 25 when it appeared at Zandvoort in 1962, you can clearly see the paint scratched off showing the aluminium underneath.

Having just seen these new pics above I agree the underside colour is up for debate.

1962-05-20-Zandvoort-Netherlands-25.jpg

and this colour pic

1964-06-14-Spa-Belgium-05.jpg

Enough other period colour pics like the one above exist to show the cockpit interior is grey.

 

M.

Edited by Malc2
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  • 2 weeks later...

Finally got the engine close to done - just the inlet trumpets to add which I need to either scratch build 8 of, or I need to tidy up the kit parts.

20220606_220509.jpg

The Coventry Climax badges look good.

 

Finally happy I have enough finished painted parts to start assembling things:

20220607_204819.jpg

 

The edge of the dash needs a bit of a touch up with silver paint to cover the red overspill. Also I have a slight problem.... the decals are OLD and a bit yellow and brittle. 5 of 6 went on OK and some Micro Sol and Micro Set make it look pretty good. However, the main dial decal crumbled the moment it went near water (bugger!) so I am missing a dial. Going to dig through the unused decal box and see if I can get away with something from an aircraft (although its a bit big). 

On the plus side the lotus decal for the centre of the steering wheel went on nicely:

 

20220607_080718.jpg

 

The rear springs are still unfinished but they should be easy to fit. 

 

Couldn't resist putting the wheels on temporarily to get to see how she looks:

20220607_080537.jpg

 

20220607_080605.jpg

 

 

20220607_080552.jpg

 

More as I make progress....

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1 hour ago, Malc2 said:

Thats looking good, how did you do the silver rings on the wheels so neatly?

 

M.

Oh yeah I forgot to post those photos last weekend.....

I was originally going to paint them with alclad then paint the centre yellow.... but then realised that was the hard way. So I sprayed the centres with some Tamiya yellow then let it dry for a few days.

Meanwhile I made masks with some good quality Japanese masking tape:

20220602_165638.jpg

 

Took several attempts to get the size spot on by gradually increasing the width using the centre screw wheel on the compass but after a few min I had it dialled in and made 7 or 8 masks all the same size (spares just in case).

Using the back (a fresh clean surface devoid of old lumps bumps and cuts from use) of this rubber cutting mat worked really well as the soft surface gave a nice clean cut edge to the tape.

 

Then I just added the masks to the wheels:

20220602_165532.jpg

 

After that it was just re-spraying the metal colour using Alclad II paints (stainless steel in this case as it's close to the polished metal colour of the wheels in reference images).

 

I had the paint creep slightly under the tape in two places (I forgot to burnish the tape down with a toothpick or similar). but those very slight metallic marks were easily covered with some of the tamiya yellow on a brush.

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Got the rear shocks and springs painted this evening...

20220608_222841.jpg

 

Not identical to the real thing as it should have a piston visible in one part within the coil spring. I thought about chopping these up a bit and then scratch building a spring and the shock piston and cylinder itself but whilst I will probably do that on future builds.... I decided this build is the first one in the series and contrary to initial plan to add detailing etc. I should build this first totally OOB

So for kit parts they don't look too bad. 

 

To get the clean look on such tiny parts I used a trick I normally use on aircraft for panel lines and sometimes wheels:

First paint the main colours - in this case it's Alclad so I added a clear coat on then painted the black bottom end with a hairy stick....

Then "paint" the recessed panel line (or the gaps between the moulded spring coils in this case) with thinners (my DIY version of Tamiya X20A in this case for me) so they are wet.

mix a very watered down bit of paint (1:3 Tamiya X-18 to X20A thinners I think in this case) then just touch the tip of a brush loaded with the very thinned paint / wash to each line / gap.

Capillary action takes the paint around the recessed panel line (or the coil shock gaps) but the paint is too thin to be sticky enough to stick to the other surfaces if you are careful.

Being cylindrical you have to touch to multiple places all the way around for each line but its easy and quick and looks great. 

Then just leave to dry (alcohol based thinners like Tamiya X20A make this fairly quick - water less so).

You may have to repeat as the thin paint may show the underlying colour through. (I am having to with these).

 

These are drying now so will get added to the model tomorrow which will finish out the suspension! 🥳

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