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a question about Eduard Spit Vc UP S colors.


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Hi,

 

I bought a while ago the 'Southern Stars' boxing by Eduard, allowing to build two of their recent Spitfire Vb or Vc.

One of the marking options that caught my eyes was a RAAF Spit Vc from 79 Sq, serial A58-180 markings are UP S.  Below is a 

scan of the instruction sheet.

 

I am not in any way an expert about RAAF markings, but I am very puzzled byany h the painting instructions.

Sky undersurfaces ? (I often read about RAF Azure blue or RAAF light blue)

Dark Green ? (I thought those Spits were delivered in Desert scheme and the Midstone repainted with RAAF foliage green)

Sky codes ? (should be white or some pale blue ?)

 

The black color on the Vokes filter  looks also strange. I found a pic of this aircraft on the ADF serials site that shows a darker color in this area,

but why black ?

 

any help will be much appreciated !

 

have a nice day,

 

Christian.

 

Capture d’écran 2022-05-23 à 13.18.33

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi Christian,

 

I'm afraid that Eduard got it rather wrong with this aircraft. Their colour callout on the instruction sheet is totally incorrect.

 

A58-180, was built as JG912 at Castle Bromwich. It was factory finished in the RAF Desert Scheme, i.e. Dark Earth / Middle Stone. The undersudes may have been Azure Blue or Sky Blue, the latter apparently used on some early CB built aircraft. On arrival in Australia the Middle Stone was overpainted in RAAF Foliage Green. The squadron codes were in RAAF Sky Blue.

 

The gun heater tubes aft of the exhausts were removed at some stage, as shown by Eduard, but the panel was not replaced. The is an 'ole behind the exhausts. The rear view mirror is rectangular and, at Kiriwina, the IFF wires running from the fuselage to the tailplane, were replaced by a rod antenna under the starboard wing, just outboard and aft of the wheel well.

 

As to the colour on the colour of the spinner and the fairing covering the Vokes filter, that is open to interpretation of b/w photos of which thre are are only a few.

 

ec0ef270-7fb9-4ea3-b2a6-9afcca1b98c0.jpg

This image was taken in September/October 1943, shortly after the squadron arrived at Kiriwina. This airstrip was made from crushed coral and, was hence very dusty, so UP-S has recently been fitted with the bulbous Vokes filter housing to replace the locally made temperate cowling.

The White empennage and wing leading edges were applied earlier, circa August, 1943.

Note that the white under the tailplane appears to come further forward than shown on the Eduard instruction sheet.

The fairing covering the Vokes filter would have been drawn from spares stock. It clearly does not match the shade of Foliage Green on the engine cowling. Perhaps it has been left in the primer applied by the manufacturer. 

Note that the emblem uner the cockpit was applied after this photo was taken.

 

de1fd6d9-579e-4793-b561-5f639dae6b59.jpg

The emblem painted on UP-S during its sojurn at Kiriwina. During this time it was mainly flown by the NCO pilots of C Flight, principally Sgts, Faulks and Cormack.

 

db3b7c84-4e9f-4c9d-9583-56b1c68ee06c.jpg

 

UP-S on the ferry flight from Kiriwina to Los Negros in March 1944. She clearly has had some repaint work done. The White empennage is now quite worn and no longer appears to be under the tailplane. The rear fuselage may have been overpaunted when the RAAF serial A58-180 was applied in late 1943. The 'UP' squadron code also appears to be overpainted on the port side.

 

de44478d-e47b-4240-b3aa-16608ae25f4c.jpg

 

ba065a9d-e337-434f-8cd4-e16ff57f4345.jpg

 

These two shots, showing UP-S behind UP-T, were taken on the ferry flight south in December 1944, at the end of A58-180's operational career. 

She still carries no squadron code on the port side and, the spinner is a lighter shade, possibly Yellow.

 

So Christian, as you can see, UP-S wore several dresses duding her career with No. 79 Sqn.

Your interpretation of how you paint your model is equally as good as Eduard's or mine. 😀

 

If I can help further, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Cheers,

Peter Malone

 

 

Edited by Magpie22
added colour of codes
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2 hours ago, Magpie22 said:

 

 

 

Hi Christian,

 

I'm afraid that Eduard got it rather wrong with this aircraft. Their colour callout on the instruction sheet is totally incorrect.

 

A58-180, was built as JG912 at Castle Bromwich. It was factory finished in the RAF Desert Scheme, i.e. Dark Earth / Middle Stone. The undersudes may have been Azure Blue or Sky Blue, the latter apparently used on some early CB built aircraft. On arrival in Australia the Middle Stone was overpainted in RAAF Foliage Green. The squadron codes were in RAAF Sky Blue.

 

The gun heater tubes aft of the exhausts were removed at some stage, as shown by Eduard, but the panel was not replaced. The is an 'ole behind the exhausts. The rear view mirror is rectangular and, at Kiriwina, the IFF wires running from the fuselage to the tailplane, were replaced by a rod antenna under the starboard wing, just outboard and aft of the wheel well.

 

As to the colour on the colour of the spinner and the fairing covering the Vokes filter, that is open to interpretation of b/w photos of which thre are are only a few.

 

 

So Christian, as you can see, UP-S wore several dresses duding her career with No. 79 Sqn.

Your interpretation of how you paint your model is equally as good as Eduard's or mine. 😀

 

If I can help further, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Cheers,

Peter Malone

 

 

Thank you SO MUCH  Peter for your long and detailed answer ! Thanks also for the many photos, this is so helpful. 

I remember buying the Eduard 'Aussie Eight' kit about RAAF Spits VIII and reading with a lot of pleasure your book that came with the kit, it was wonderful.

Now that Eduard has released  a nice Spit Vc in 1/48 scale,  is there a similar project planned for RAAF Spits V ? 

In my opinion, the wealth of emblems for Mk Vc's is even more fantastic than for  Mk VIII.

 

have a nice day,

 

Christian.

 

 

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Glad I could help a little bit, Christian.

As far as I am aware Eduard are not intending to do an 'Aussie Five'.

About two years ago they asked if I was interested. I replied in the affirmative but they never followed up.

I think they decided to go with the American boxing instead.

 

tres bonne journee,

 

Peter

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 11:15 AM, Magpie22 said:

Glad I could help a little bit, Christian.

As far as I am aware Eduard are not intending to do an 'Aussie Five'.

About two years ago they asked if I was interested. I replied in the affirmative but they never followed up.

I think they decided to go with the American boxing instead.

 

tres bonne journee,

 

Peter

 

très bonne journée à toi aussi !

Sad that they did not follow up on an Aussie Five boxing, I am sure it would sell very well,

 

best wishes,

 

Christian.

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Hi Christian,

 

I've been researching colours for UP-T and can confirm Peter's statement about the Spitfires wearing several dresses during their career with 79th Squadron. I looked at photos from the Australian War Memorial and discovered some Spitfires with bare metal filter covers, some had bare metal spinners with a light coloured backplate (white or Sky Blue?), varying amounts of white under the tail plane (latter pictures show full white tail). UP-T had a bare metal spinner and no white under the tailplane at the time of the ferry flight from Kiriwina to Los Negros, yet the picture provided by Peter (taken at a later date) shows it with a painted spinner and a full white tail. Same for the wheel hubs, I've seen spoked and covered hubs on pictures taken at different times.

 

Good luck with the spinner and Vokes filter colour interpretation. For UP-T I'm going with unfaded Foliage Green, assuming the contrast (which is less than in the UP-S picture above) is due to faded camouflage paint.

 

By the way, I've received mail from Eduard and there is a new limited boxing of the Mk Vc, "SPITFIRE STORY: Per Aspera ad Astra DUAL COMBO", which has markings for 12 planes. Two are Australians: CR-C and UP-V. The colour interpretation seems more likely this time. https://www.eduard.com/eduard/spitfire-story-per-aspera-ad-astra-dual-combo-1-48.html.

 

Cheers,

Wlad

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3 hours ago, Wlad said:

Hi Christian,

 

I've been researching colours for UP-T and can confirm Peter's statement about the Spitfires wearing several dresses during their career with 79th Squadron. I looked at photos from the Australian War Memorial and discovered some Spitfires with bare metal filter covers, some had bare metal spinners with a light coloured backplate (white or Sky Blue?), varying amounts of white under the tail plane (latter pictures show full white tail). UP-T had a bare metal spinner and no white under the tailplane at the time of the ferry flight from Kiriwina to Los Negros, yet the picture provided by Peter (taken at a later date) shows it with a painted spinner and a full white tail. Same for the wheel hubs, I've seen spoked and covered hubs on pictures taken at different times.

 

Good luck with the spinner and Vokes filter colour interpretation. For UP-T I'm going with unfaded Foliage Green, assuming the contrast (which is less than in the UP-S picture above) is due to faded camouflage paint.

 

By the way, I've received mail from Eduard and there is a new limited boxing of the Mk Vc, "SPITFIRE STORY: Per Aspera ad Astra DUAL COMBO", which has markings for 12 planes. Two are Australians: CR-C and UP-V. The colour interpretation seems more likely this time. https://www.eduard.com/eduard/spitfire-story-per-aspera-ad-astra-dual-combo-1-48.html.

 

Cheers,

Wlad

 

Hi Wlad,

 

 I assume that you mean that you are going to paint the Vokes filter housing of UP-T in Foliage Green, not the entire upper surface of the A/C.

 

Unfortunately, Eduard have gotten it wrong again, particularly Clive Caldwell's A/C. They seem to have used photos of BS234 and labelled it as BS295. I have seen no photographic record showing the codes of BS295 as CR-C. Written records list it as carrying the code QY, without an individual A/C letter. 

 

They appear to have done a better job with the No. 79 Sqn A/C, UP-V. However, their ID of the pilot is a bit suspect. F/L Whettenhell did die in the A/C when it was lost in late December 1943. F/O Wilkinson was the pilot responsible for the emblem. He flew the aircraft from Australia to New Guinea in May 1943 and, flew it on some 45 ops up to December 1943. Whettenhell joined the squadron in November and his regular A/C seems to have been UP-R. He flew UP-V only twice on ops.

 

In both cases the camouflage would have been RAF Dark Earth and RAAF Foliage Green over RAF Azure Blue. Could make more comments but won't bore you with them all. 

 

Cheers,

Peter M

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Your comments are never boring Peter. Your research and sharing is much appreciated from this quarter.

 

Pity we didn’t get an Aussie Mk V booklet.

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As ever with b&w photos, colour is very tricky. In the first photo, whilst the Volkes fairing appears (mainly) darker than the green, the prop blade in that area (presumably black even if weathered) appears lighter than both. The spinner shows a quite sharp demarcation due to sun/shadow and that, combined with the light of the prop, suggests there's some significant differences in light across the front part of the aircraft. The "black" on the filter actually has numerous shades, from very dark at the edge where it joins the fuselage (shadow from the exhausts?) to not much difference to the prop around the letter. I'd say the lighter area is very similar in shade to the green on the fuselage. Personally I'd opt for green on the filter, particularly as black seems an odd choice for it.

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5 hours ago, Phoenix44 said:

As ever with b&w photos, colour is very tricky. In the first photo, whilst the Volkes fairing appears (mainly) darker than the green, the prop blade in that area (presumably black even if weathered) appears lighter than both. The spinner shows a quite sharp demarcation due to sun/shadow and that, combined with the light of the prop, suggests there's some significant differences in light across the front part of the aircraft. The "black" on the filter actually has numerous shades, from very dark at the edge where it joins the fuselage (shadow from the exhausts?) to not much difference to the prop around the letter. I'd say the lighter area is very similar in shade to the green on the fuselage. Personally I'd opt for green on the filter, particularly as black seems an odd choice for it.

I agree completely. If you look closely,  the foliage green on the cowling just above the exhausts is quite close in shade to some parts of the Vokes filter, in particular to the chin with the air intake, which does not seem to be in the shade,

 

best,

 

Christian.

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16 hours ago, Magpie22 said:

 

Hi Wlad,

 

 I assume that you mean that you are going to paint the Vokes filter housing of UP-T in Foliage Green, not the entire upper surface of the A/C.

 

Cheers,

Peter M

Correct Peter, just the filter housing on UP-T. My, and Special Hobby's, interpretation of the top camouflage is Earth Brown and Foliage Green, with Sky Blue under surfaces.

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On 25/05/2022 at 05:29, Magpie22 said:

h

 

On 29/05/2022 at 08:01, Magpie22 said:

 

Hi Wlad,

 

 I assume that you mean that you are going to paint the Vokes filter housing of UP-T in Foliage Green, not the entire upper surface of the A/C.

 

Unfortunately, Eduard have gotten it wrong again, particularly Clive Caldwell's A/C. They seem to have used photos of BS234 and labelled it as BS295. I have seen no photographic record showing the codes of BS295 as CR-C. Written records list it as carrying the code QY, without an individual A/C letter. 

 

They appear to have done a better job with the No. 79 Sqn A/C, UP-V. However, their ID of the pilot is a bit suspect. F/L Whettenhell did die in the A/C when it was lost in late December 1943. F/O Wilkinson was the pilot responsible for the emblem. He flew the aircraft from Australia to New Guinea in May 1943 and, flew it on some 45 ops up to December 1943. Whettenhell joined the squadron in November and his regular A/C seems to have been UP-R. He flew UP-V only twice on ops.

 

In both cases the camouflage would have been RAF Dark Earth and RAAF Foliage Green over RAF Azure Blue. Could make more comments but won't bore you with them all. 

 

Cheers,

Peter M

 

Huge thanks for this info Peter. 

 

I wonder what over comments you have about the No. 79 Sqn A/C, UP-V? I could not see any inaccuracies with my rookie eye, looking at the historic photos available on Google but would be curious to hear whether a trained eye can spot any.

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