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Spitfire XII in 72nd Scale


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Posted (edited)

I've checked various (multiple) previous posts on this subject but they all seem to offer varying advice so can anyone please confirm the best possible way forward to constructing such a beast given that Eduard are now re-releasing their Spitfire VIII and IX kits and that my modelling skills are quite modest?

 

Many moons ago I bought the Brigade set along with the Italeri Vb donor kit but never had the courage or skills to attempt so passed it on but is this still the best way to go or is there a better way?

 

Just to reiterate, my skills at 'combining' kits is not great so I'm looking for a solution which may not be the best but will deliver something that closely approximates the XII but without having to be an expert.

 

It would be helpful if replies referred to kits and 'extras' that are currently available as I do not have an extensive 'spares box' to fill in any gaps.

 

Regards

Colin.

Edited by fishplanebeer
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Since the Eduard kits feature the two square radiators under each wing, you would probably be better off starting with the recent Airfix Vc. This would involve more work in some areas but at least you could avoid having to fill the hole left by different radiator under one of the wings.

Wonder if the Brigade conversion would fit the Airfix kit?

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Thank you.

 

I have this Airfix kit but where do I go for the new nose and prop/spinner?

 

The Brigade conversion is rarely available now but Airfix are soon to re-release their XVIII kit, plus their XIX is still out there on E-Bay etc.., so where can a simple/modest modeler go to make something that looks OK-ish?

 

Regards

Colin.

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Oh sorry, I didn't realize that you had sold the conversion...

Easiest way to get cowling and prop would be finding a Seafire XV or XVII, Sword or Ventura/Jay. It would then be a matter of chopping both fuselages at the firewall and use the Seafire cowling on the Vc fuselage.

The Airfix XIX could also be used for the cowling but this would need shortening.. that of course can be done. The prop would be different though, 5 blades instead of the XII 4 for a starter. Aeroclub had a white metal propeller for the XII, may still be found somewhere but it's been OOP for years.

 

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Thank you again.

 

I'm sort of thinking that the answer to my original question is that there is actually no relatively easy-ish way of doing the XII in this scale for me unless I can find the Brigade XII conversion again and/or the Sword Seafire XV and Aeroclub prop, none of which are readily available.

 

It sounds like I still need to continue to ask Airfix to down scale their pretty good 48th scale XII, or wait for Eduard/Arma, or even KP/AZ, to deliver as I'm sure this variant of the Spitfire would be a good seller in this scale.

 

Regards 
Colin.

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As i have a bit of a Spitfire obsession when my mojo allows, this obviously piqued my interest.

 

When said mojo returns, i have the Sword multi Seafire kit in 1/72nd and think this may provide 2 routes to what you want. The bag with the early MkXV contains what appears to be the standard late rudder hook fuselage, and the fuselage to build the early belly A-frame hook. Is this a couple of swipes of the file away from a MkXII Spitfire fuselage? 

 

The other option is to cannibalize the cowls from the spare fuselages of the MkXV kits to graft onto a Vc or VIII of your choice.

Arabest,

Geoff.

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7 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

I've checked various (multiple) previous posts on this subject but they all seem to offer varying advice so can anyone please confirm the best possible way forward to constructing such a beast given that Eduard are now re-releasing their Spitfire VIII and IX kits and that my modelling skills are quite modest?

 

Many moons ago I bought the Brigade set along with the Italeri Vb donor kit but never had the courage or skills to attempt so passed it on but is this still the best way to go or is there a better way?

 

Just to reiterate, my skills at 'combining' kits is not great so I'm looking for a solution which may not be the best but will deliver something that closely approximates the XII but without having to be an expert.

 

It would be helpful if replies referred to kits and 'extras' that are currently available as I do not have an extensive 'spares box' to fill in any gaps.

 

Regards

Colin.

Having made a number of XII, you definitely need modelling skills, because you at least has to exchange the nose and oil cooler of a kit.

 

The best approach is to practice. You will probably not nail it the first time, but gain valuable experience as you go along. Given perseverance and enough tries, a decent model will emerge eventually.

 

You may have found my attempts at doing V's using Eduard IX's and I recommend joining the Griffon nose in the middle of the fuel tank, not on the firewall. That way you can more easily hide the seam. The same goes for doing the oil cooler.

 

/Finn

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jazzie said:

The bag with the early MkXV contains what appears to be the standard late rudder hook fuselage, and the fuselage to build the early belly A-frame hook. Is this a couple of swipes of the file away from a MkXII Spitfire fuselage? 

If I remember correctly, Sword's early XV kit has the Seafire strengthening rib moulded along the outside of the fuselage. You would need to remove that for a Spitfire XII, which is a slight pain. Might be better to use the late XV fuselage and source a rudder from either an Eduard or AZ/KP kit, or one from Quickboost (or from the early XV kit if you're prepared to sacrifice it). If the rudder is from a different manufacturer it might need a bit of fettling to make it fit properly though. I suggest this because it's the route I'm taking to build my XII, once the mojo is sufficiently charged. I think PrintScale do some XII decals as part of their V1 Aces set.

 

Justin

Edited by Bedders
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5 hours ago, Bedders said:

If I remember correctly, Sword's early XV kit has the Seafire strengthening rib moulded along the outside of the fuselage. You would need to remove that for a Spitfire XII, which is a slight pain. Might be better to use the late XV fuselage and source a rudder from either an Eduard or AZ/KP kit, or one from Quickboost (or from the early XV kit if you're prepared to sacrifice it). If the rudder is from a different manufacturer it might need a bit of fettling to make it fit properly though. I suggest this because it's the route I'm taking to build my XII, once the mojo is sufficiently charged. I think PrintScale do some XII decals as part of their V1 Aces set.

 

Justin

Thanks for that bud,

I have quite a poor XII built already so one of the reasons i bought the Sword Seafire set were the spare MkXV fuselage and Vc wings. Didnt notice the strengthening strips on the early, but i did consider the late fuselage as you just need to cut off the rudder, something im sure most can replace from the spares box, along with all the other bits needed. 

Arabest,

Geoff.

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If (and its a very BIG if) you could find the Paragon resin conversion, that fits well with the Eduard MkVIII and would be the way to go -

 

Tim

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I think the Xtrakit XII or the old Brigade conversion are probably the best bets but sadly neither are available at present on any platform so I'll just have to keep an eye out for one or both.

 

Many thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

 

Regards

Colin.

 

Ps. still can't understand why it's never been done in 72nd scale (especially Airfix given their 48th offering) if the level of interest on this forum is any indicator of potential demand

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59 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

I think the Xtrakit XII or the old Brigade conversion are probably the best bets but sadly neither are available at present on any platform so I'll just have to keep an eye out for one or both.

 

Many thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

 

Regards

Colin.

 

Ps. still can't understand why it's never been done in 72nd scale (especially Airfix given their 48th offering) if the level of interest on this forum is any indicator of potential demand

Don't look for the Xtrakit. It needs a big bunch of modelling skills to turn into a decent model. I should know, I've been there. And if you get a Brigade, use only the Griffon and the oil cooler on an Eduard IX or VIII

 

If you should look for something, look out for the Paragon conversion.

 

/Finn

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I don’t have a current hosting service so no picture of my Xtrakit XII. I did mine pretty much OOB 10-15 years ago, only using a jig to get the individual prop blades properly aligned. It wasn’t a Tamiya-like fit but I don’t recall major issues (of course I’m getting on in years so my memory probably isn’t completely reliable 😛) You can get a more accurate XII hacking and splicing other kits, just depends what you are willing to accept. Perhaps worth mentioning I also did a XII using an Aeroclub vac fuselage and the old Airfix Spitfire Vb kit back in the mid 80s.

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3 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

Ps. still can't understand why it's never been done in 72nd scale (especially Airfix given their 48th offering) if the level of interest on this forum is any indicator of potential demand

 

Personally, I think you're right, but the last time I said I thought a new and accurate 1/72 Spitfire XII kit was a good idea, I got howled down for it - only served with two squadrons; only had standard camouflage and markings, no special schemes; short service life, etc., etc.. So, wait and see, I guess.

 

John

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Quite a bit of BM reference material......... there is a note here the CMR one is short in the fuselage but no evidence. Mine is same as other CMR Spitfires.

Another build here

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

Quite a bit of BM reference material......... there is a note here the CMR one is short in the fuselage but no evidence. Mine is same as other CMR Spitfires.

Here is a pic of CMR next to the Sword:

.

 

The noses and cockpits are lined up:

.

 

Here's the completed CMR:

.

 

 

And here's the Sword/Brigade

.

 

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The problem with the brigade conversion is that the fuselage and the wing parts are rather crude and require a lot of modelling skill to create a decent XII. As mentioned in the posts above, it is way better to source these parts from other kits.  When I built my 1/72 Mk XII conversion I ended up using only the spinner from the set.

 

13 hours ago, John Thompson said:

 

Personally, I think you're right, but the last time I said I thought a new and accurate 1/72 Spitfire XII kit was a good idea, I got howled down for it - only served with two squadrons; only had standard camouflage and markings, no special schemes; short service life, etc., etc.. So, wait and see, I guess.

 

John

 

I can only agree with you. Even though there were only a mere 100 Mk XII built, these Spitfires played an important role in the battle against the V-1 and the air defense against the marauding FW 190s. So it would be nice if some manufacturer finally releases a decent Mk XII kit in 1/72.

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I'd sort of assumed that using the rather good Airfix Vc and adding a new nose/engine from somewhere would have been the simplest approach, although I've no idea where such a nose could come from from unless it was from a Sword Seafire XV possibly? (using an Eduard VIII or IX would entail additional work to the underwing intakes).

 

As to the spinner and prop I was thinking of using the blades from the Airfix XIX and then cobbling together a spinner from Milliput etc.

 

BTW the plans I have are those by P B Cooke in the Argus 'Aircraft Archive Volume 1' so are these reliable or is there another set which I need to source perhaps?

 

Regards

Coilin.

 

Ps. the CMR kit and Paragon conversion set are also like hens teeth unless some kind soul has examples they no longer need?

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Sorry, just to add that I have a spare pointed rudder which I could add to the Airfix Vc to correct this particular aspect and quite happy to model an early XII with a fixed tail wheel.

 

Regards

Colin.

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11 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

I'd sort of assumed that using the rather good Airfix Vc and adding a new nose/engine from somewhere would have been the simplest approach, although I've no idea where such a nose could come from from unless it was from a Sword Seafire XV possibly? (using an Eduard VIII or IX would entail additional work to the underwing intakes).

 

As to the spinner and prop I was thinking of using the blades from the Airfix XIX and then cobbling together a spinner from Milliput etc.

 

BTW the plans I have are those by P B Cooke in the Argus 'Aircraft Archive Volume 1' so are these reliable or is there another set which I need to source perhaps?

 

Regards

Coilin.

 

Ps. the CMR kit and Paragon conversion set are also like hens teeth unless some kind soul has examples they no longer need?

 

There's no simple approach to making such a conversion, unless you can source a bottle of instant modelling skills. You know: Add water and you are an expert.

 

I'd still recommend practice. Take two old spitfires and switch noses and see if you can pull it off. You need to learn how to make the cuts and the internal stiffing, so that the fuselage hold together for the rest of the build. In the mean time, try to find the kits you will use for the "real" conversion. You  will also need to experiment with different glues, Epoxy and Cyano, if the need arises and you have to put a resin nose on your base kit.

 

If you get this far, and have a model ready for decaling, try to avoid a model from 41 Sqn. because they used fuselage codes that were 22" high. Such codes can't be found in generic sheets. Thinking about it, you won't be able to find a single aftermarket sheet with XII'es.

 

Don't worry about plans. For this project they are absolutely superfluous. Whats needed is getting a griffon nose on a Vc or Griffon and oil cooler on a IX/VIII. What you need is a caliper to get the right distance from cockpit to firewall (it's the same for all spitfires).

 

/Finn

 

PS: If  you want a Spitfire out of the ordinary, look out for the Messerspit. https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BRP72010

 

 

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10 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

I'd sort of assumed that using the rather good Airfix Vc and adding a new nose/engine from somewhere would have been the simplest approach, although I've no idea where such a nose could come from from unless it was from a Sword Seafire XV possibly? (using an Eduard VIII or IX would entail additional work to the underwing intakes).

 

As to the spinner and prop I was thinking of using the blades from the Airfix XIX and then cobbling together a spinner from Milliput etc.

 

BTW the plans I have are those by P B Cooke in the Argus 'Aircraft Archive Volume 1' so are these reliable or is there another set which I need to source perhaps?

 

Regards

Coilin.

 

Ps. the CMR kit and Paragon conversion set are also like hens teeth unless some kind soul has examples they no longer need?

 

That is more or less what I initially suggested and remains IMHO the "easiest" way to do such a conversion,.. where easiest is of course relative, as in any case cutting the fuselage of two different kits and combining them together is not part of what I'd call basic skills.. speaking of which, the suggestion posted above regarding cutting behind the firewall is a good one, as allows a better joint. In any case it's up to you to decide if you feel this kind of conversion is something you can attempt.

Using a spare Seafire XV fuselage as a base is also a very good idea, although of course there's the risk of parts not fitting properly. Still, this risk exist in any cross-kitting exercise.

A lot would then depend on how accurate you want to be in the detail department... just to name one, the XII propeller was different from the Seafire XV one, still is this something you are bothered with ? Then there's the bulge on the nose, the Seafire did not have this, the XII did so something shold be used to reproduce it. Half of the Spit XII production had fixed tailwheels and half had retractable tailwheels, the Airfix Vc would work well for the former but the latter would need work while with a Seafire XV fuselage it's the opposite. And I'm sure there are a few other details but they are details. What matters most is the XII feautures a Vc style wing with a single stage Griffon engined fuselage. A Vc wing can be found in any Vc kit while the only variants to have a single stage Griffon engine were the XII and the Seafire XV and XVII.

 

Said that, it is of course possible to use a longer two-stage Griffon engined fuselage and cut the cowling at the required length. However it would be a bit more difficult than starting from a single stage Griffon engined variant. When I built my XII I made a copy of the Fujimi XIV cowling and cut it to size before adding this to a Mk.IX but only because I had no Seafire XV available, today I'd probably start from this variant.

 

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15 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

 

There's no simple approach to making such a conversion, unless you can source a bottle of instant modelling skills. You know: Add water and you are an expert.

 

I'd still recommend practice. Take two old spitfires and switch noses and see if you can pull it off. You need to learn how to make the cuts and the internal stiffing, so that the fuselage hold together for the rest of the build. In the mean time, try to find the kits you will use for the "real" conversion. You  will also need to experiment with different glues, Epoxy and Cyano, if the need arises and you have to put a resin nose on your base kit.

 

If you get this far, and have a model ready for decaling, try to avoid a model from 41 Sqn. because they used fuselage codes that were 22" high. Such codes can't be found in generic sheets. Thinking about it, you won't be able to find a single aftermarket sheet with XII'es.

 

Don't worry about plans. For this project they are absolutely superfluous. Whats needed is getting a griffon nose on a Vc or Griffon and oil cooler on a IX/VIII. What you need is a caliper to get the right distance from cockpit to firewall (it's the same for all spitfires).

 

/Finn

 

PS: If  you want a Spitfire out of the ordinary, look out for the Messerspit. https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BRP72010

 

 

 

Funny you mention the Messerspit as there is a spare Vb fuselage in there. Not sure if this is related to the AZ or Sword kits so confirmation welcome, but maybe a good candidate for a nose job.

Arabest,

Geoff.

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