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16 minutes ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

I'm unsure whether you mean stash reduction is your norm or your break.

I suppose what I'm saying is that many modellers norm(ally) build a genre, they may get bogged down and lose mojo. This is a good time to reach for a 'palate cleanser' like an OOB build, a GB, something to refresh your thoughts and when ready, you return to the 'norm'.

I'm not sure what my 'norm' really is as I have 100's of aircraft, a shelf of AFV's, half a shelf of maritime, I drift from one genre to another and I want to build them all...it's not going to happen. I have been retired just over a year now and I'm now building more than I buy and hopefully I'll stop the buying in the New Year. I have to say that 'cos I have an expensive resin ship in transit as I write. My biggest problem is that I'm spoilt for choice, I have too much, I need a good reality check and down size my horde to at least something feasible. Selling anything for a loss is a bit galling but sometimes you need to cut your losses...choices, choices. 

 

5 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

if you want to consider it a problem, is the fear of losing out on something new and interesting if I don't get it now

Very true Graham. I wouldn't say that I'm a collector per se but that's what has happened, just wish I had more self control years ago. 

 

Stuart

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y4m1YkxB5k0vcqwhoRWM44LGsd53vDWqSk4rS6nw

 

It was necessary to drill new holes for the bolts which would reinforce the joint of the pintles to the rudder. A piece of scrap from the rudder's own fret was used to avoid distorting the brass.

 

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With the rudder irons in place, a shallow hole was drilled into the side of the rudder through each of the boltholes.

 

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After this the copper foil was applied. It was a lengthy process despite, or rather because of the small size and awkward shape of the rudder. No in-progress phtos were taken.

 

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Once the copper foil was applied, a cocktail stick was used to punch the holes clear. This allowed shortened 'bolts' made from 1mm diameter nails to be CA glued into the holes at the same time that the rudder irons were glued to the rudder. 

 

The long braces or gudgeons will next be shaped to conform to the contours of the stern before drilling, gluing and pinning them into place. It was French practice to attach these to the deadwood only but British ships extended the braces to the hull, or rather the cant frames behind the planking, for extra strength and durability.

 

136.15

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y4mTv7MOAswfh__Ek-v3Jgio0FblrvNzcvfnJmg-

 

Shaping the braces to fit the hull was an incremental process with care required to avoid overstressing the areas weakened by the drilled holes.

 

Once satisfied with the shape, 0.6mm pilot holes were drilled into the hull and brass nails pushed into place. Some of the pins required shortening which was done with side cutters to leave a sharp chisel shaped point. 

 

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The pins held the ruder in place well but for extra security, thin CA was introduced behind the braces and around the heads of the nails. 

 

The rudder is noticeably shinier than the rest of the hull - a clear demonstration of the value of the oil wash and of the natural tarnishing of the copper foil over time after it has been handled. It's impossible to say which of the three effects; time, fingerprint acids, or the wash, has produced most of the weathering.

 

137.15

 

 

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8 hours ago, Dancona said:

Hi Bertie

Just caught up with this thread, what a splendid job you are making of this , the copper sheathing has come out very well, all looking most impressive !!

 

Cheers

 

David

 

 

My goodness, I hope you didn't read all 22 pages! Thanks for the encouragement. 

 

I'm only producing short updates at the moment so I may save them up for a few days and then write a decent one. 

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y4mdI7uZy9LOeVXWRUXSL7q81ucpfpXIUZmKC_AP

 

Having finished with the aft end for a while, I started assembling the head. Fist I superglued the knee of the head back into place being very careful to get it straight. A small error here would throw far end of the bowsprit off hugely and cause the boat to sail in circles forever.

 

The square piece of pearwood will be the hawse holes. Following the OcCre plans the hawse holes are suitable for ropes, hawsers in fact but the kit supplies chains. Now in 1830, a small boat like this using chains for its anchors would be exceptional but Robert Fitz Roy was very much up to date in all things so it's reasonable to assume he would have insisted on chains. This would require metal hawse holes as a chain running out through a simple wooden plate would rapidly wear it away. Fortunately for me, there's a compelling reason why I believe that Beagle did NOT have chains to her anchors. Fitz Roy insisted on expensive brass cannons because he did not want to risk magnetic interference caused by large pieced of moveable iron. This could have compromised his compasses and introduced errors into his charting - the main purpose of the voyage. To me it's inconceivable that he would have wanted several tons of iron chain on bard, chain which would have been laid up slightly differently in the cable tier every time the anchors were weighed. Nope. I'm going for good old fashioned rope.

 

The other two pieces of plywood, carved and shaped to fit, currently look awful but are only the foundation for some scratchbuilding to come.

 

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I want it to look something like this with a grating floor and two sets of 'seats of ease' for the crew.

 

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OcCre want it to look like this, with some fake curly bits made from thick brass rod. I think this is horrible. It's entirely fictional as a small craft like this even as early as 1820 didn't carry this sort of ostentatious decoration. It's also unworkable as the hawse holes are so far inboard that the cable would foul the structure, especially when it was straight up and down.

 

In order to make the head symmetrical, I decided to build one side first and then use that as a pattern to make the other. That was a dumb idea because at some point on the process, the knee of the head, superglued in straight, moved five degrees to port. Probably when I pressed the upper piece of plywood against it. Concentrating on the side elevation I didn't notice this until I'd bent, shaped and firmly glued in the second, lower piece of ply.

 

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Even on this fuzzy photo snapped in anger you can see the significant swerve to port compared with the line of the centre plank of the deck. At the end of the bowsprit that will be 3 inches off centre. So I needed a fix. The superglue is now firmly set, as is the woodglue on the other pieces. I didn't fancy carving it all off and starting from nothing as that would destroy what was left of the knee. So I decided to fake it. I'd carve a plate to go on the starboard side of the knee, thick enough to make it symmetrical about the centreline. The bowsprit would then be straight ahead and the double thickness knee would be hidden beneath it, hidden from the side by the rest of the structure of the head, and difficult to see from below because the model will be on a base. From straight ahead I'm hoping that it will be lost to view amongst all the rigging - if not, I might hide it behind that spurious figurehead!

 

y4mhF8_7KSF1v5p6fmDaOgsghyL-JbS6zzm2ak6K

 

I filed the starboard side of the bent knee flat.

 

y4mRM3F3WpbAarWiO2qkaYBf4cZ0xPfeT1X1zivh

 

I made a pattern on a cigarette paper by the 'brass-rubbing' technique.

 

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Glued the pattern to a piece of 2m walnut for strength and because its final tapered shape would make plywood inadvisable.

 

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I cut the walnut with a piercing saw and sanded it to a wedge shape with a sanding disc in a Proxxon tool. It's glued on now and I'll leave it for 24 hours before filing it to fit exactly. I need slightly more width at the end and I'll laminate a 1mm slice of walnut up there last thing today. 

 

Despite the slip up, yesterday and today have been very interesting sessions. No, actually, that's because of the slip up!

 

140:00

 

 

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y4mzK8pXGuvPZCdNYe6c8m-6gxWQCWwFjegCw27q

 

While repairs were on my mind I remembered this little slot which had torn out during the many breakings of the knee. It's important because it will be the lower anchor for the gammoning (lashing) which will secure the bowsprit to the knee of the head to resist the upward forces imposed by the spritsails.

 

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I squared up the hole and cut a block of walnut to fill it.

 

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Once that was dry, the knee of the head could be shaped, if that is a 'shape' as opposed to a blob.

 

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Blob or shape, at least it's in the middle now! 😂

 

140:30

 

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I've not been very active on the Beagle today.

 

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The reconstructed head was painted. It's obviously still incomplete but looks a lot better than the Steven Fry version.

 

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Then I noticed that handling was causing several of the copper tiles to lift at the corners. It was less than a mm but the reflections gave it away. I've put a couple of coats of Humbrol satin clear on it and hope that stops things getting worse. 

 

141:00

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16 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

Then I noticed that handling was causing several of the copper tiles to lift at the corners. It was less than a mm but the reflections gave it away. I've put a couple of coats of Humbrol satin clear on it and hope that stops things getting worse. 

 

That was a misplaced hope. This is what I found when I woke this morning.

 

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The Clear varnish reacted with the copper, mostly in the places which would have had most handling.

 

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It seems to be the copper damaging the varnish rather than the other way around.

 

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The worst parts just wiped away but theres a lot of varnish that's, at this moment, mechanically sound but is clouded and greenish. Removing it with alcohol risks lifting the plates of copper. Removing all of the copper is impossible due to its fragility and the tenacity of its glue. Any Ideas?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

On a happier note, the base looks reasonable. The masts are dry fitted just for an impression of the final layout.

 

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You could perhaps try polishing the copper ?

Brasso or Duralit used very gently ?

Then test another varnish, not a modelling one, on some spare copper.

Maybe stick some masking tape over the copper, a low tack one may be safer.

Jon

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Hmmm, an interesting development.

 

What clear varnish did you use?  Acrylic or ?

 

Maybe this is a reaction of some sort between the oil wash you had previously applied and the clear varnish. Perhaps the oil wash had not yet completely cured ( i.e. oxidized ) through and you handling removed the topmost bit of the oil paint wash allowing the varnish to react with the oil.   Looks like it may be a case of "lean over fat" rather than "fat over lean" if you get my meaning.

 

Any sort of solvent may as you fear cause lifting of the previously applied copper tape strips but I fear that there is likely not much choice. Lots of cotton swabs, carefully used and  using the mildest solvent that works seems the way ahead. Start with something mild like window cleaner and work your way to something stronger. Something like Brasso or Silvo may work. They are both mildly abrasive, Brasso being a bit more so than the Silvo.

 

cheers, Graham  

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18 minutes ago, Faraway said:

Maybe stick some masking tape over the copper

 

That is an interesting idea - use the sticky side of the masking tape to remove the "lint" from the copper where you can or use a lint roller, whatever may be handy and expedient. Will not remove all of the varnish but the flaky bits as a start.

 

cheers Graham

 

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8 hours ago, Faraway said:

You could perhaps try polishing the copper ?

Brasso or Duralit used very gently ?

Then test another varnish, not a modelling one, on some spare copper.

Maybe stick some masking tape over the copper, a low tack one may be safer.

Jon

 

8 hours ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Hmmm, an interesting development.

 

What clear varnish did you use?  Acrylic or ?

 

Maybe this is a reaction of some sort between the oil wash you had previously applied and the clear varnish. Perhaps the oil wash had not yet completely cured ( i.e. oxidized ) through and you handling removed the topmost bit of the oil paint wash allowing the varnish to react with the oil.   Looks like it may be a case of "lean over fat" rather than "fat over lean" if you get my meaning.

 

Any sort of solvent may as you fear cause lifting of the previously applied copper tape strips but I fear that there is likely not much choice. Lots of cotton swabs, carefully used and  using the mildest solvent that works seems the way ahead. Start with something mild like window cleaner and work your way to something stronger. Something like Brasso or Silvo may work. They are both mildly abrasive, Brasso being a bit more so than the Silvo.

 

cheers, Graham  

 

Thanks friends, for those suggestions. For now, I've wiped off the green dandruff and I'm going to leave it and see what develops. Perhaps as the copper ages and tarnishes I'll end up with an interestingly modulated hull? There's no need to fix this before carrying on with the rest of the kit so for once, I'll be patient. If that doesn't work out I'll try some of your ideas.

 

And Graham, it was Humbrol Satin Clear, an acrylic varnish.

 

Thinks; Kleer and similar acrylic varnished can be stripped with ammonia. Presumably they contain traces of the stuff. Did the ammonia cause the formation of copper oxide? Have I found the secret of tarnishing copper hulls?????

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"Using the fumes of household ammonia to oxidize metal is really quite easy and is an inexpensive way to oxidize copper and brass. I have tried this method on finished pieces that included freshwater pearls and turquoise, which are usually considered delicate materials. All you need is a clean pickle jar with a lid, a piece of wire or fishing line to suspend your piece, and clear ammonia. It is a little smelly, but if you are quick the smell should be no problem. At no time should the metal or finished jewelry come in physical contact with the ammonia liquid; it is the fumes that will produce this patina. I do not know the scientific reason why, I just know it works!

First and foremost, clean your piece of brass or copper with either alcohol or acetone to remove any oils or dirt so that the patina is consistent throughout the piece. Do not touch the surface that you want to patina.

Pour about one inch of ammonia into a pint or quart-size glass jar.

You can use wire or fishing line to suspend the metal or piece of jewelry just below the mouth of the jar. I taped the ends of two pieces of fishing line to the outside of the jar to create a little cradle. The piece must not come in contact with the liquid ammonia.

Screw on the lid and wait a couple of hours. You can check the piece to see what color you want to stop at.

The ammonia odor on your piece should fade quickly, but if you want, you can leave the piece out for a while before very gently buffing out any high points for contrast.

That's it!"

 

https://feltmagnet.com/crafts/oxidizecopperbrass#:~:text=Using the fumes of household,to oxidize copper and brass.

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2 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

Using the fumes of household ammonia to oxidize metal is really quite easy and is an inexpensive way to oxidize copper and brass

 

Interesting. I will have to give that a try.  One of the more traditional methods to achieve a brown patina on copper, bronze, and silver ( but not brass ) was to use liver of sulphur. Liver of sulphur however does not contain ammonia. 

 

I have even seen where a patina was applied to copper by sealing the copper piece in a container with a freshly boiled egg - seems the egg gives off enough sulphur fumes that this works. 

 

cheers, Graham

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8 hours ago, Mark_C said:

Just an interested lurker popping up to add this, if it will help:

 

https://www.worldcoppersmith.com/articles/copper-patina-guide/

 

The first part explains how patinas occur, and illustrates various examples.  If you soldier on to the end, there are recipes for creating solutions that will leave a patina on copper.

 

 

 

Thanks Mark. That's a fascinating article. I read every word!

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9 hours ago, Mark_C said:

Just an interested lurker popping up to add this, if it will help:

 

https://www.worldcoppersmith.com/articles/copper-patina-guide/

 

The first part explains how patinas occur, and illustrates various examples.  If you soldier on to the end, there are recipes for creating solutions that will leave a patina on copper.

 

 

That's great, but it's looking how copper weathers in air, not underwater.

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/20382-coppering-color/#:~:text=At a distance of fifty,natural color of copper oxide.

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42 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

 

I'm scared to put my model under water.

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Despite everything I said  above I couldn't resist playing around with some of the patination processes. Vinegar and salt worked and turned the copper slightly pink. This was a little boring. Priory Polishes Patination Fluid worked strikingly well and produced an irregular black (Copper sulphide) finish. I liked this better and once it had been rubbed down and polished with some steel wool was quite pleased.

 

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I love the patterns and the way it varies so much in different areas. The colour is a bit monochromic though, and I intend to boil some eggs later and try for a little blue/green on top.

 

 

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I've been spending a lot of time reading an epic log of a Mantua Models Victory build on another forum. That started off inspiring me but after 20 pages or so it began to have the opposite effect. I was learning, to my horror, how much I have yet to learn. Prior to this insight I was a happy incompetent who was having a lot of fun finding out how to do stuff my way - afterwards I was in danger of becoming worried about all of the challenges to come. So I'll refrain from looking at others' builds for the present and concentrate on my own exploratory play instead.

 

Maybe I'll look at some newbies like myself. I think we can only learn well from people who are a limited way in front of us. I could learn nothing from Sheldon Cooper or even Howard Wolowitz but I'm sure Penny could teach me a thing or two.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Beagle is now in a big plastic box with four chopped boiled eggs emitting sulphurous fumes all around her. Later I'll eat the eggs and then Beagle can spend the night with me under the duvet...

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  • Bertie McBoatface changed the title to HMSV Beagle (1820) ~ The Head and the Bottom
3 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

I've been spending a lot of time reading an epic log of a Mantua Models Victory build on another forum. That started off inspiring me but after 20 pages or so it began to have the opposite effect. I was learning, to my horror, how much I have yet to learn. Prior to this insight I was a happy incompetent who was having a lot of fun finding out how to do stuff my way - afterwards I was in danger of becoming worried about all of the challenges to come. So I'll refrain from looking at others' builds for the present and concentrate on my own exploratory play instead.

 

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."

Ecclesiastes

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