HMSV Beagle - OcCre - 1/60

[Bertie McBoatface]

7 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Indeed there is no rule to force a modeller to stick with a single material

 

I think there's an illogical and  unwritten rule in wooden ship building not to use plastic. Anything else is ok; brass, resin, MDF, acrylic paint, even polyester thread, but not actual polystyrene. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I've never seen poly and wood combined (except on a mostly plastic kit with those wooden decks).

 

That doesn't mean that I have to stick to the rules though.😁

[Faraway]

1 hour ago, Bertie Psmith said:

wooden ship building not to use plastic.

So, if you add crew figures do you have to carve them from wood ?

Jon

[Faraway]

1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Indeed there is no rule to force a modeller to stick with a single material

👍as fo me, the only rule is have fun. If I stop enjoying building ships, I’ll stop.

One of the reasons I tend to flit about, from one type to another.

Jon

[Bertie McBoatface]

28 minutes ago, Faraway said:

have fun

👍

[ColonelKrypton]

6 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

You've got me thinking now. I’m questioning why I don’t incorporate plastics in places where I’m going to be painting over. Those skylights for instance could be a lot more delicate and in scale if built from plasticard. 
 

The only problem is gluing plastic to wood when I dislike CA so much. But there are alternatives, I’m sure. Hmmmm…

 

Now you're thinking.  Why not try paper - i.e. cardstock maybe or better yet a mixed media or watercolour paper?  Most are wood pulp based and easily glued using the same glues as you are using already. I have been messing about with using some watercolour paper ( 300gsm ) in the same way as I would plasticard and it is really not so different than using small bits of wood or plastic and the paper takes watercolours very nicely too.

 

There is a Japanese train modeler who posts on youtube who makes very nicely done models using paper ( looks like cardstock ) for much of his construction ( plus balsa and other bits ). You might find some of his builds interesting:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu30DOMjaeEWj8PzsHOGi0A/videos 

 

cheers, Graham

 

[ColonelKrypton]

2 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

That doesn't mean that I have to stick to the rules though.😁

 

Rules, formal or unwritten, I think are more about mindset and the inability to see beyond the end of ones own nose.

 

cheers, Graham

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

3 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Why not try paper -

I’m already on that one Graham. I used it for caulking and plan to make the ironwork on the masts with it. The doorframes and panelling are another opportunity. 

[Bertie McBoatface]

14 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

 

Rules, formal or unwritten, I think are more about mindset and the inability to see beyond the end of ones own nose.

 

cheers, Graham

 

 

Yes. We write our own rules without realising it. It's often healthier to give ourselves a few permissions. 

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

That is the coat of arms of Henry Fitzroy, illegitimate son of Henry VIII and (I think) the ancestor of our Captain. so there's my colour palette for the painting of more or less everything apart from the deck. I mean the deck furniture, bulkheads  hatches  and the insides of the bulwarks etc. The outside of the brig will be black and white - standard RN colours. I'm going to allow Fitzy a little bit of bling and do the name on the transom in gold, Or, actually. (The yellow on the arms is referred to as OR, latin for gold?)

 

I think blue and red with just a touch of green here and there will look very smart. Red bulwarks and bulkheads were very popular at the time anyway, see HMS Victory for example. Incidentally I believe the often quoted reason for using red, to hide the bloodstains so the sailors wouldn't get alarmed, is utter rubbish. There would have been no shortage of horrors to see in battle, red walls or not. And Jack Tar is made of sterner stuff than that anyway. I think the popularity of red paint is because thick red lead oxide paint is very durable and kept the wet out of the wood. Likewise the black, tarry paint on the outsides. 

 

OcCre would have the bare wood exposed everywhere according to the box art and the instructions, but I think that looks awfully toy-like. There's a picture of the box top on page one.

 

 

Now the cabin interior is definitely cancelled, I could start working the poop bulkheads. (I smile every time I write 'poop'. I'm such a child! 😁) I've reprofiled and raised the deck as well as covering up the locating holes so a little bit of adjustment was called for.

 

 

The locating tabs came off the foot of the bulkheads. That's a 'gentleman's saw' you see there. I must have nicked it from some gent. 😁 I'm noticing that I'm getting more accurate with the wood as my experience builds. It's a rare pleasure to cut something easily and well after months of hacking around and sanding the remains into shape.

 

 

That's the camber that needs to be built into the plywood and then into the sapele facing timber. In the 'old days' back in May, I'd have filed a bit out, tried it for size, filed again, dry fitted, filed again. Now that I'm getting on the pace, I marked it first.

 

 

Then I filed to the line to establish the correct curve. The piece was still high so I marked a second line parallel to the edge and trimmed that off. Sorted! I'm rediscovering the principles of measuring, marking and cutting to the line - NEVER BEYOND (unless I put a second line in first). It's not complicated but years of plastic kits have allowed me to get away with being sloppy and I've forgotten the right way to do these things.

 

None of this 'skills stuff' matters much on this build, or even the next one, which is a biggie, but still a kit. The one after that though, I'd like to be a scratchbuilt plank on bulkhead job and the one after that, if I'm still breathing, might just be a plank on frame. For that, my woodworking skills will have to be proper as that will require jointing. (Oh my! 🙀)

 

 

Wood glue takes a while to set and works best under pressure, like me. 😆 Clamping it up square was made easy with my dice keeping things under control. I'm really pleased with this idea as it was something I thought of myself. I don't have many original ideas. I'd read about using square nuts, and I have a stock of those too, but the dice work in three directions at once and don't ping out of sight under clamp force. And wood glue doesn't stick to them.

 

 

Not everything needs to be square. I wanted to restore the lost camber to the poop (ha!) deck. If you recall, the plywood cupped and absorbed all of my efforts to build a curved deck. With no cabin in the way, I can now deal with that. I filed a curve on this super hard scrap of timber (type unknown, but very hard hardwood).

 

 

Actually I made two beams but there wasn't room for both so in the end I went with the first one that I'd carved.

 

 

I trennelled the poop (ha) deck first, while it was still flat. Yes folks, I'm learning to think a few steps ahead!

 

 

Then I glued and clamped it all together. You can see that the camber is back. When I release the clamps tomorrow it will either stay like that OR the plywood will delaminate and the whole thing will fall to bits. That would be a trifle vexing.

 

 

Back to the bulkhead which was now dry enough to fit. I made a lot of those square reinforcement blocks. Even when you haven't cut the locating tabs off everything, the plywood interlocking joints are not brilliantly fitted and a little cube makes a big improvement in strength and ease of fitting.

 

 

This lot used to be a smart gift box containing a bottle of vintage port. I'll have to buy another one now!

 

 

Facing the plywood with Sapele was a doddle. "You can't see the join!"

 

 

I measured the back wall of the alcove with compasses, marked the planks and cut them to size with this chopper which is now properly mounted on a baseboard and works like a charm. No wastage this time and no faffing about - cut five - fit five. Skills are accruing daily. (I'm also finding new ways to make mistakes every day - the cabin interior debacle, for example - but I don't dwell on those. 😜)

 

Remember that this is only the second boat on the Psmith pslipway and you realise that it's not that difficult. If I can do it, we all can, and not for the last time I urge you all to have a go at one of these wooden wonders if ever you get the chance. Wood is good!

 

Total time on the job, excluding mounting my chopper, is now 33h 20m.

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

On 5/23/2022 at 7:25 AM, Bandsaw Steve said:

I think that the figurehead probably started out as something quite simple but, over time, evolved into a beagle. 🤔

 

I only just got this joke. 🤦‍♂️

[Adm Lord De Univers]

On 11/07/2022 at 14:11, Bertie Psmith said:

I've even had my comments on a build quoted by someone else who just adds "I agree with Bertie".

Uh oh, I think I did that quite recently too!

 

On 09/07/2022 at 21:13, Bertie Psmith said:

Not perfect but good enough for a first attempt. The pattern came out just right and only the unevenness of the caulking lets it down.

I think the uneveness makes it look more believable. To my mind some of those unbelievably fantastic builds I see actually look more toy like to me.

 

On 11/07/2022 at 20:33, Bertie Psmith said:

The cabin idea has gone out of the window, or skylight. Interior details in 1/60 are not possible for my level of modelmaking, as I'd have realised instantly if this had been a tank. Who would think of a 'full' interior treatment on even a 1/48 Sherman? Very silly me.

Given the evidence before me, I have to say that I disagree, knocking something together in sheet styrene would be my suggestion, doing it in wood would be a lot harder. In either case I think you could pull it off.

 

On 11/07/2022 at 20:33, Bertie Psmith said:

I know the Voyage of the Beagle was one of exploration but I'm beginning to feel that I'm off the charts too.

At any rate, definitely evolving, even if comparing to Phantoms and Spitfires betrays your roots!

 

Looking fantastic Bertie and quite a different build from your last outing.

 

David

Edited July 12, 2022 by Adm Lord De Univers
it's too hot to think and type legibly

[Bertie McBoatface]

35 minutes ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

I think you could pull it off.

 

There are so many punchlines...

 

35 minutes ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

I think the uneveness makes it look more believable.

 

Aye, agreed, but not quite that uneven? As we know, we are our own most scathing critics and I dare say I'll come to love it in time.

 

35 minutes ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

quite a different build

 

Yes very much. I'm enjoying it a lot more because I'm not worried about it now I've finished one. It's quite difficult to mess one of these up beyond redemption. I'm also liking the different style of the different manufacturer. I don't have a preference except that I always prefer something new. There are a lot more manufacturers to get to know before I've been around the block. And a lot of interesting craft to build too.

 

A lot of the processes involved in building these kits are actually pretty close to scratching. You get a plan and some timber and make your own components to a much greater extent than I'm used to. (Perhaps that's why I feel so much more involved with the end product?) I feel that transitioning to full-on scratchbuilding will be a nice gentle process, and that's definitely what I want to have a go at. I have a book originally published in 1929 (second edn. 1948) called How to Make Old Time Ship Models, which contains a set of plans for HMS Royal Albert (1854) and instructions to build it. No kits in 1925! The plans are printed but from hand drawn originals. By the time I get to it the design will be a century old and much closer to the dates of the ship than to our own time. For many reasons, that really floats my boat!

 

 

HMS Royal Albert model in the NMM Greenwich 

 

I've never had a modelling plan of action that stretches out over years before. Of course, I may lose interest and change direction entirely. It wouldn't be the first time, as all my ex-wives will tell you. Or I might just run out of time before the fingers and eyes give up the struggle. We'll see.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Thanks for the comments David, one certain thing is that the feedback I get here keeps me going strong!

 

 

[Adm Lord De Univers]

2 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

It's quite difficult to mess one of these up beyond redemption

Hold my beer.

 

David

[Bertie McBoatface]

7 minutes ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

Hold my beer.

 

David

 

I suppose you could stand on it. 😏

[Bertie McBoatface]

With so many delights planned for future builds, I'm resolved to speed up a little. I'm putting in the hours but I could work a lot more effectively. Glue curing time is a significant factor in woodwork so I'll open up several 'production lines' so that I can keep working on something, while the main thing is drying. There's no reason why I can't build all of the deck furniture, the boats and the spars alongside the hull construction.

 

I'm restoring my not-quite-a-deadline as a way to keep things moving. I'd like Beagle done by the end of 2022.

[SafetyDad]

16 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

 

 

 

Question for you Bertie: Do these little reinforcing blocks get glued permanently in place? Or do you remove and reuse them? Looks like the former...

 

I'm also going to step out of line here and gently request that some of your lovely work, like the the fo'c'sl bulkhead, is left au naturelle and not painted? That little pic on the preceding page of your work looks lovely!

 

BTW, you can take the blame credit here exclusively - I've bitten as a result of your work and have a wooden ship model on its way as I type this.

 

SD

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, SafetyDad said:

Question for you Bertie: Do these little reinforcing blocks get glued permanently in place? Or do you remove and reuse them? Looks like the former...

 

Yes, they are permanent parts of the structure. They are almost certainly not required in an OOB build but I've messed around with this one quite a bit and I had a fear that when I drew the rigging taught I would hear a 'Crack!' from somewhere to which I could no longer gain access. I didn't use them on the (OOB)Zulu and everything was fine.

 

1 hour ago, SafetyDad said:

I'm also going to step out of line here and gently request that some of your lovely work, like the the fo'c'sl bulkhead, is left au naturelle and not painted? That little pic on the preceding page of your work looks lovely!

 

It's not stepping out of line to make a polite request, SD. You should see it now that I've applied sanding sealer, which like varnish brings out the glow of the grain. It's beautiful and if it were a model of a Chippendale sideboard, I'd be happy to leave it varnished and polished. But it's a ship. 

 

Incidentally, you can't leave the wood completely unprotected, au naturelle, even if you make the builder's choice not to paint as I did with the Zulu. Varnish, wax or oil treatment is essential or the timbers will get dull, dusty and lifeless in just a few months.

 

1 hour ago, SafetyDad said:

BTW, you can take the blame credit here exclusively - I've bitten as a result of your work and have a wooden ship model on its way as I type this.

 

SD

 

Outstanding decision, SD! Which one? And will you do a WIP? When will you begin?

 

 

[Ray S]

That is very good progress, and an incredibly entertaining and enlightening read.

 

I have to hold my hand up and say I have started a wooden ship: I bought it with a legacy my Grandparents left me when they passed away. It is still up on my wardrobe, the frames are done and the deck is on, but I baulked at the rest of it. It was the Clara May ketch:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/artesania-latina-20405-clara-may--1366331

 

I would still like to complete it, and hopefully your build will inspire me to get a move on!

 

All the best,

 

Ray

[SafetyDad]

5 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

Outstanding decision, SD! Which one? And will you do a WIP? When will you begin?

 

 

Here we are, courtesy of eBay

 

 

I made sure to choose a 'proper' manufacturer - and avoid any IP issues. It's had a little work done already (the keel and bulkheads have been assembled). I hope that these are true and well-glued, but I am prepared to dissemble and reglue if needed. I like the lines of the Swift, and, having checked the other site, it seems a very popular choice for a first timer like me. Not sure about a WIP, but we'll see...

 

It's in the post, so I don't yet have sight of it in the flesh.

 

I'm already wondering if I should order some extra planking material as I anticipate that there could well be breakages and accidents. Oh, and one of your pterodactyl cutters looks like a good idea as well?

 

SD 

[Bertie McBoatface]

46 minutes ago, Ray S said:

That is very good progress, and an incredibly entertaining and enlightening read.

 

I have to hold my hand up and say I have started a wooden ship: I bought it with a legacy my Grandparents left me when they passed away. It is still up on my wardrobe, the frames are done and the deck is on, but I baulked at the rest of it. It was the Clara May ketch:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/artesania-latina-20405-clara-may--1366331

 

I would still like to complete it, and hopefully your build will inspire me to get a move on!

 

All the best,

 

Ray

 

You stopped at the planking and I don't blame you. It's a tricky part of the process. Have a look at my Zulu build to see how I floundered around at that stage. It all turned out well enough in the end though.

 

Clara May looks a lovely boat and a good beginner's project as fore and aft rigging is infinitely easier than square rig. AL are a respected brand though I've not worked on one myself yet.

 

When you get going again, do a wip here and we can all give you a hand and keep you company. It really helped me even though sometimes I felt a bit embarassed. 😆

[Bertie McBoatface]

26 minutes ago, SafetyDad said:

Here we are, courtesy of eBay

 

 

I made sure to choose a 'proper' manufacturer - and avoid any IP issues. It's had a little work done already (the keel and bulkheads have been assembled). I hope that these are true and well-glued, but I am prepared to dissemble and reglue if needed. I like the lines of the Swift, and, having checked the other site, it seems a very popular choice for a first timer like me. Not sure about a WIP, but we'll see...

 

It's in the post, so I don't yet have sight of it in the flesh.

 

I'm already wondering if I should order some extra planking material as I anticipate that there could well be breakages and accidents. Oh, and one of your pterodactyl cutters looks like a good idea as well?

 

SD 

 

AL are a sound manufacturer for sure and the boat is a beauty. Good choice of rig; fore and aft being so much simpler than square riggers. Yet you still get a handful of dead eyes to break you in gently. 

 

As I just said to Ray, When you get going, do a wip here and we can all give you a hand and keep you company. It really helped me even though sometimes I felt a bit embarrassed. 

 

Extra planking would have made me a lot less anxious on my first build. The kit only provided two spares which was ridiculous for a boat meant for beginners. However, wait till you see how generous Artesia Latina are before you shell out. Sometimes you'll get twice as much as needed. From my experience so far, the most useful aftermarket seems to be better rigging line - not that I've bought any yet! 

 

Those pterodactyl cutters have now been superseded as my 'go to' tool by the big chopper guillotine. It was useless until mounted on the baseboard but is now very good. The hand held one is a bit hit and miss on the angles and I tend to only use it for 90 degree cuts (I move the plank until it's reflected in the blade as a straight line).

 

I believe I bought both from Hobbies who have a good range of boat stuff and whose customer service has been excellent. https://www.hobbies.co.uk/model-boats/tools-and-sundries     I'm a tool freak though. You probably have side cutters already and they were all I used on the first build. Buy the special tools when you find that you need them, there's never a rush with a woodie!

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

Hey @SafetyDad, look at the way that wood glows with a lick of shellac! And look at the ridiculously large pores in the Sapele. That's why I'm painting it. The hornbeam deck is fine grained enough to stand alone, but not this stuff.

 

 

Take a last look before I cover it up forever.

 

 

The skylight boxes are a bit crude so far but there's some PE to help them. Panelling them was fiddly but fun and I like that the lines of the planks are visible. It would be quicker probably to cut them from solid wood but I'm not sufficiently practiced yet in the use of my new table saw (I said I was a tool freak!😜).

 

 

This is the paint scheme palette. I heartily endorse the Vallejo Extra Opaque box of colours. They have painted over the wood in a single coat and with no brush marks or other problems. The green and yellow will require an undercoat of white.

 

 

I've applied two coats of sanding sealer which sinks straight in and dries very quickly in this weather. Each time I cut the shine back with fine wire wool. as you see on the right side of the photo. I've left a very slight sheen, though dead flat would be more accurate. I just liked it that way.

 

 

Mr Sensible's paint test took minutes. Painting onto the coarse texture of the wood is a joy. No brushmarks, no thin spots. It soaks in (no sealer used here) and will stick like that stuff does to your blankets.

 

 

The paint removes the wild Sapele colour and half of the texture but left it still looking 'woody'. I'll be dry brushing it later to see what happens.

 

 

And there's Fitz Roy's colours looking suitably 'almost-Tudor'.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#

 

I said I wasn't going to post daily, didn't I? It's turned out to be too exciting not to!!!

 

Nearly three hours at play today takes me to 36:15 hours elapsed.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray S]

1 hour ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

You stopped at the planking and I don't blame you. It's a tricky part of the process. Have a look at my Zulu build to see how I floundered around at that stage. It all turned out well enough in the end though.

 

Clara May looks a lovely boat and a good beginner's project as fore and aft rigging is infinitely easier than square rig. AL are a respected brand though I've not worked on one myself yet.

 

When you get going again, do a wip here and we can all give you a hand and keep you company. It really helped me even though sometimes I felt a bit embarassed. 😆

 

Will do to both! I really do find that difficult things get easier with the help of folks on here.

 

Ray

[ColonelKrypton]

Bertie,

 

I was also following your build on Model Ship World but for some reason when I went looking forward just now I can no longer find it.  Where did it go or can't I see the forest for the trees?

 

cheers, Graham

 

 - took another quick look just in case I missed it before - nope, still don't see it.

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

6 hours ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Bertie,

 

I was also following your build on Model Ship World but for some reason when I went looking forward just now I can no longer find it.  Where did it go or can't I see the forest for the trees?

 

cheers, Graham

 

 - took another quick look just in case I missed it before - nope, still don't see it.

 

 

I found posting in both places to be too much for me and didn’t want to leave a dangling conversation there so I made use of their facility for disposing of topics. 
 

I decided that Britmodeller is the place for me. 😉