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Sanger HP Halifax 1/48


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Hello Icabod, just noticed you have included a diagonal frame to the rear part of the canopy, over the flight engineers. position. This is not a frame on the canopy, but an internal strut from the armoured bulkhead back to the fuselage side on the inside. 

Impressed how you enlarged the fuselage to get the canopy to fit. Don know yet how I'm going to do that bit.

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Posted (edited)

Sadly I am already aware. I copied the framing from the previous builds of the FM Halifax and only afterwards did I realise that there were two internal struts between the bulk heads. I have tried to replicate the struts used to support the scare Lewis gun in the nose as you can see in the picture below.

 

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I note from your comments that you are have prepared the Merlin engine nacelles supplied in the Sanger kit. I failed with them completely which is why my the model sat in the garage loft for the best part of 12 years. 

 

I have another Sanger Halifax on build as the same time as this one and on that one I intend to cut the wing leading edges a fit proper firewalls cribbed form the Aero Data plans in order to get the engine angles correct Fortunately the Aerodata plans show this quite well. 

Edited by Icabod
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Further overall progress to date is shown in the pictures below. The new turrets are complete and are awaiting framing.  Nose section has been reworked to reflect the correct Mk of Halifax with old windows filled and new ones drilled. ( I hope to build a Mk 1 next) . Nose glazing is fitted and is awaiting blending in properly. Scare gun is fitted albeit without the barrel. The Sanger gun is abysmal so a replacement was found in the 'bit' box.

 

There is some bomb aimer panels fitted for the internals but this shot didn't show them, not that they are that visible anyway.

 

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Here is a close up photo of the nose glazing before painting and finishing showing the gun mount.

 

 

20220625_145507.jpg

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Change of pace today I got tired of framing the turrets and I still don't like the rear turret shape. I think I will carve a new one from the Aerodata plan at some point. For now though I will plod on with the one I have already done. Spent today cutting the propeller hubs off the engine castings and fitting the Sanger blades, started work on the tail wheel and fitted the tail plane and fins. Tailplanes were secured using the rod and tube method to ensure they are aligned correctly. Tape is just stopping them rotating while the glue set.

 

The photos show something that is finally looking a bit like a Halifax now that the props are on, albeit loosely put together. Engines need to be scribed I see.

 

 

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Model is being built in a static caravan... hence the strange background. The plastic boxes and the old FM Halifax box contain all the bits and tools, totally self contained. 😀

 

20220627_154454.jpg

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Hello Icabod, you build is looking good. I managed to note you had to increase the fuselage width to make the canopy fit , All I did was add a 3mm tapering strip in front of the windscreen, it tapers down to the front turret , ad viola! the canopy fits better.  I take it you still had to use masses of filler around the canopy front, as I have a big gap around it too,   I'm making the Mk II with front turret, and that is a real b*****d, the front turret is better than the rear one by only a bit. I have to make do with it. The bomb-aimer glazing is a different curve from the fuselage, so I have made another bulkhead of the same shape to force the fuselage shape to the same curve with some superglue and clamps. I superglued the fuselage top, rear and part underside, let it se, so I could fiddle with the front and superglue that seperately  with the bulkhead holding the shape as it dries. 

 

The flight engineers position behind the pilot has a transparency over it, so I plan to bend an acrylic sheet to this shape and not  use the kit  bit.

The Aerodatea plans show a thick canopy frame over the armoured bulkhead behind the pilot, the plans in Wings of Fame Journal Vol 8 page 12 show a thin one, but pictures on page 118 show a thick  frame .   The two skylights, I plan to just paint gloss black after finishing. 

Could you describe how you make the canopy framing material ? looks great. 

I have re-scribed the wing detail. 

The nacelles... I cut them out as per instructions, and can  re-cut and  jig  them to the right  flight angle, then will  glob lots of milliput and shape while still wet.  

I made 4 blade airscrews by adding  a 4th made of plastic card, - It is to be a Mk II without mid-upper, turret.

I have a Airfix 1/48 Defiant turret glazing if you need this. 

I would estimate there is another two months work to this before I can even consider painting. 

Please continue describing your work, it is very, very helpful. i have problems posting pictures that can be seen by all on this site, but can describe other work as i do it.

M

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Posted (edited)

Another phase completed. The wings have been fixed and the undercarriage secured. The original build of 2011 or so was originally intended to be a wheels up model and so I did not cut out any of the wing wells. To fix the undercarriage I retro fitted some plates as per the Sanger instructional drawing such as it is in the nacelles and drilled them exactly in accordance with the measurement. The undercarriage fitted perfectly.  

 

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This is my first vacuum kit to date and there is a lot wrong and there are things I will do differently in future but overall it does look like a Halifax.

 

I have the wings to clip as the Sanger kit has the MKII extensions built into the wing.

 

I am still undecided about the rear turret. I carved a blank from the Aerodata plans and it definitely has the curved appearance shown on the plan but when compared with a photo I found on the internet of the real thing it may be that the Sanger moulding is more accurate and the Aerodata plan is wrong.

 

This is the blank from the plan..

20220629_140038.jpg   20220629_191111.jpg

 

and this is the photo snipped from the internet.. 

 

Rear_Turret_Screen_Snip.gif

 

I shall have to go to Elvington to look at the real thing to be sure.

 

Edited by Icabod
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Helo Again!

I think the Elvington Museum is  making up parts or using  bits that are not as accurate as the AIRDATA book, the book seems more accurate than their assembly of bits. The turret pictures in the book page 126 shows the rounded shape, I have to make do with the Sanger turret, The front turret is a bit too wide, of two parts, but not a bad rendering. Iv'e just completed the engines, using the kit parts. you are a bit ahead of me at moment. I'm leaving the cockpit canopy to later, the Undercarrige seems good enough. The early straight wing tips need sanding very thin to fit properly, sand and re-check many times to make sure its thin enough, I use a lot of superglue on the kit, but used poly glue there, plus masses of Milliput. 

Plese let me kno you can see picture:  as sometimes this doesn't woek Halifax_engines.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Many thanks for the feedback 'OldModeler and I look forward to sharing builds. Your nacelles look fine but take care fitting them to wings. That's when I screwed up big time. On my next build I will cut into the wing leading edge to fit the nacelles rather than try cutting the outer nacelle to fit the wing leading edge taper. 

 

This is my 2nd Halifax build so far, unlike the first one currently being finally assembled this one is being built based on the experience of the first. Just the internal formers assembled so far with the a start made on what will be some internal cockpit detail from the flight engineers office forward.  I learnt from the first build that the fuselage will twist very easily hence the top longeron and rigid 2mm formers.

 

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I agree the Elvington Halifax has is somewhat of a hotch potch in some areas but I suspect the rear turrent is a BP type E. These are a couple of photos from Elvington's dedicated 'turret' display hut showing a Boulton Paul Type 'A' top turret and an un-restored Boulton Paul Type 'E'.  Looking at your turret picture I would suggest it is more accurate than mine and I think it is the curve of the non glazed back section coupled with the fuselage curved raised rear (to accommodate the turret height) which gives the curved appearance of the actual turret. A trip to Elvington with ruler will sort it and I should be able to get there this month. (Only 20 miles away). The turret top looks flat on these photos, at least they do to me. 

 

Elvington170209_(26).JPG Elvington170209_(28).JPG

 

Elvington170209_(17).JPG

 

I found this advertisement in an old (1944) Aeronautics magazine which has a nice drawing of how the BP four gun turrets are fed with ammunition, something which is not very apparent looking at photos.

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Finally if you need any bits that I may have spare let me know. Glad to share what I have. 

 

 

Edited by Icabod
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Hello again Icabod! 

Please you can see the pictures, I have mounted the engine nacelles, which were a no-fit, so I used lots of supporting plastic strips and superglue to jig in position , aligned as best possible  vertical engine mounts with the wing  roots  at 90 degrees  to the fuselage. then when set, great gobs of Milliput, wetted and smoothed  and filed/sanded when dry, including the top fairing, paired down to almost nothing to fit.  looks OK. Contacted Sanger maker,  owner, Gerald , who uses the moulds from Contrail, for the two little side blister transparencies = they don't supply them, so I will have to make from clear sheet, (make a  former:  tin box, fretted 1ply , mould  and gas grill.) Can make more if you want to include them. (mine is  to be V9977) which crashed with 11 people on board including Prof Blumlien at Welsh Bicknor, just down the road from here in Gloucester, in 1942. Hence  early Merlins, fuel dump pipes, balloon cable cutters, no top turret, early fins and front turret. 

 

You have done internals similar to mine, except I have only done the visible front part, blocked off aft of the flight engineer. I noticed. slight twtist in the fuselage on mine  I cannot fix, so I will assemble the wings straight then take that as a guide for the tailplane alignment. I have notices that the soft plastic buckles over time,  after being cut off the sheet. So what is straight may not be later...

M

 

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Posted (edited)

It was great to hear from you again but sorry I cannot see any images at all and I would like to to see them especially considering the problem I had with the engines.

 

I haven't done much with Halifax no 1 which in now assembled with with wings attached and I have left it at home while I am away as all the things it needs doing to it now are too dirty/smelly for a caravan. Disappointingly I also realised that the port wing has warped over the years and developed a decided twist. Clearly my internal bracing wasn't good enough

 

I spent the weekend carving and moulding different rear turrets but I still haven't been happy results. I am now certain the Sanger shape is more accurate than the Aerodata. The turret is flat on top and the curve at the back is created by the solid entrance section which is flush with the rear fuselage. The turret also bulges around the guns. I also ran out of clear styrene. 

 

I spent today working on the lower wings of the next Halifax creating the internal bracing to prevent the next ones from warping., as you can see from the photo. The leading edge section is fitted because the wing tops and wing bottoms do not align correctly and the new LE profile  will not be wavy. I will cut the outer wing panels at the dihedral rib line and attach them first. This will also allow me to work on the wheel wells from the top and bottom. Halifax no 1 has no wheel well details.

 

The brown marks are the remains of the packing tape that had been used hold the vacuum panels together. (it was purchased in 2008) Th tape had deteriorated to the extend that all that was left was the glue.

 

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Edited by Icabod
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Hello Again Icabod

I found I needed to spend a LOT of effort sanding the trailing edges thin thin thin, as close to thinnest  as possible , flat on a sanding sheet, 180 grade, then work to 400,  its still too thick but.... impossible to make realistic. NOTE: The fuselage shapes to align the wings  give different incidence, so the  trailing edges to not align, used polystyrene glue here,  it's best to compromise to get  get best alignment.  or it doesnt look correct, I put in one mainspar, didn't realise it might distort after build. wing top/bottom fit as not too bad after all the massive amount of trimming.

I think  the AERODATA drawings fit the pictures better than Sangar transparancies. the Sanger rear turret is wrong, but as good as I can get. 

WIll show  pics of engine cowl fitting,  added extra internal bulkheads and thickened the material edges and   I had to do massive amounts of MILLIPUT  to get top fairing and engines shape ready to sand.  but it DOES work if you get a s near as possible alignment fitting before all the Milliput : which can be shaped while wet to reduce sanding. the sanding might go through the parts, hence thickening on the inside to allow the shape to fit.  Still, massive ammout of sanding ,  Much  more work than all the model work  I have done in total. 

NOTE: the best modelling tool I bought recently was a  battery-hand DYSON.  I can sand sand, covered in the suff. all over the bench and model, then ssssssssssuck, ALL CLEAN.  Also do a lot of vac before any painting, made a vast improvement in finish.  DYSONS do have a filter, best to have a supply and change frequently, well worth the cost. The have much more suck than any other vac.

 I think your second build is looking better than mine. 

M

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Halifax is finally coming together now. The rear turret mould was made and a resin blank created for the turret rear as you can see below. 

 

I also took the opportunity to carve and mould some observation blisters for the next Halifax I am in the process of building. 

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The vacuum glazing cloudy/white owing to the protective film I left on while vacforming.

 

Assembled turret profile looks like this..

 

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Whole thing currently looks like this:

 

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Once assembled I also noticed the wings had warped after 12 years in the garage loft.  Lots of washout on both wing tips. 

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Engines exhausts and the carburettor air intakes to fit on the outer engines plus lots of the fiddly bits and port hole glazing.

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello Icebod, you build looks really good,!

I had the same twist problem on the fuselage, and only noticed after fitting the wings, so I tried to compensate with the horizontal stabilizers, but it seems the soft white plastic is indeed sensitive to heat ,and it has gradually twisted back, also port inboard is slightly out of alignment. so it is  compromise. 

Have made the teardrop blisters, engineers station glazing and now moulding a new canopy from .5mm clear acrylic. I built up the front fuselage to  do a best fit, but it is tricky to get the right mould shape. Using the traditional cooker grill to heat at 250C.  now on the second mould shape , the vertical  sides will have to be cut from clear panel, as the mould drop stretches the material too much.  I did a basic cockpit detail and pained the cockpit green, plus matt black panels, instruments etc. 

Scrap-built the undercarriage rear  retraction mechanism, instead of using the too thick kit metal parts. I have bought brass .303 gun barrels, and scrap-made the internals of the turrets, Cant find any detailed pictures of this so doing a best guess.  Front glazing fits fairly well after fitting bulkheads to hold the fuselage in the same shape. No bombsight fitting, as I expect the TRE plane was stripped of bombing gear. 

 

Sorry you cant see my pictures, they are now on a https server, so should be readable. Your panel work looks really good, I tried to scribe as best I can to recover panel lines, and  it  not too bad, but the wings are  miss-alingned  top-bottom, so elevators don't match top-bottom. 

I use enamels, so Humbrol / Revell tins, needing about 4 for all the  matt black, plus a matt varnish on top, I plan to mark and mask the top roundels, as transfers will be huge.  I am doing V9977 for RAF Defford museum,  which has: (according to picture), 
No mid-upper turret, 

Short wings

4 blade props,

early exhausts

no stone guards for carb inlets. 

original two mast arial,

side teardrop blisters.

three fuel dump pipes per wing,

Navigators dome,

Original undercarriage.

4 gun rear and 2 gun turret.

poor fitting bomb doors. (just didnt clean this up on the fuselage).

If you come across other pictures of V9977 please put on  this site.

 

 These bombers were left outside and initially flew from grass airfields, so got covered in mud etc, the giant tyres had mud strips and flung mud all over the rear of the plane. 

I will put more pictures on the aerver.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Icabod!

Have completed the Halifax, and it is now in the Defford museum. It was a bag of compromises, I will put pictures on my website and link them here, and list the URL's so you can cut / paste and try that.  The finished model is average to poor, I compromised a lot, tried making a better canopy, but ended up using the kit one. made the two side blisters ok though. Used a load of Milliput fine to fit the engines  nacelles to the wings but it worked out well , used the kit white metal undercarriage legs plus scratch building the angled supports, brake pipes, scraper etc, that looks  really good. I used  Humbrol and Revell enamels,   for the  camouflage, sprayed Humbrol matt varnish enamel all over: (60% thinner, 40% paint), I corrected many spray errors with Micro-Mesh and water. I  masked and painted the wing roundels, the transfers supplied had a too bright blue/red. , Finally, I used  W&N pastels to dirty it up a bit, lead petrol markings over wing etc, ,   The fuselage yellow/blue/white/red roundels were Xtradecal X032-48 roundel  sheet, 49inch ones. Fin flashes from same sheet. Ventura Decals V4892 for the Serial numbers.

Will link pictures here  and start a 'Show Your Finished Model " on this website

M

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I would like to see the pictures. I haven't managed to do anymore modelling since my last post. Old issue cropped up and I am bed ridden for another week at least. 

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