Sanger HP Halifax 1/48

[Icabod]

I haven't posted anything on the forum for a considerable number of years but having found some time on my hands I finally dug out form the garage loft my Sanger HP Halifax I/II I started back in 2010 after fighting a couple FM Halifax IVs.

The Sanger engines were a mess so I carved a blank, made a mould and cast 4 replacements. However after fitting them I realised they were set at the wrong incidence (DOH!) and disgusted with the whole thing I consigned the bits to the garage loft. Anyway after sawing off the engines and reseating at the correct angles, I felt inspired to plod on.

 

The model will be MHK of 51 Squadron, shot down over Belgium in 1943. This is a photo, taken I believe from the Bf110 that shot it down. Outer port engine is on fire. Photo is from the Belgian archives which has lots of images of crash site.

 

The whole thing is mostly Isopon since fuselage was twisted and  bowed like a banana. Here's a few photos showing progress to date.

 

 

 

 

Cockpit area being cut to fit the canopies, the framing will be foil most likely. Wings and tailplane temporarily fitted to show the overall shape and encourage me to continue.

 

 

 

The final image is to show the difference between the old FM Halifax fuselage and Sanger Halifax Fuselage

 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

fascinating....  I don't know I've seen a Sanger (ex Contrail?)  Halifax finished.

 

One point, your photos are very small,   a good width here is about 1024,  yours are saying width 285.  There are options about what size in your photo host.

 

cheers

T

[Icabod]

You should be able to click the photos to go to the photo location and zoom in

[Mike]

2 minutes ago, Icabod said:

You should be able to click the photos to go to the photo location and zoom in

They're coming out the same size as the thumbnails, sadly

[corsaircorp]

Great !!

An Halibag in the making !!

That will please my friend @BS103....

He commited 2....

I'll follow if you don't mind it !!

Sincerely.

CC

[Icabod]

Is this better. Not sure how to increase the size. When I click them they open up on photobucket

 

 

[LorenSharp]

Cool a Sanger Halifax. I have one in the stash that I hope one day to get to. I look forward to seeing the completed work.

[Troy Smith]

11 hours ago, Icabod said:

Is this better.

yes, you can see what you are doing.   Neat work

[Icabod]

Some more work done over the weekend. Vacform cockpit glazing cut out and test fitted. They needed a thicker divider than expected. Pictures show the Isopon clag lathered around it to blend it in (fit was where it touched), later photos show the Isopon sanded to shape.

 

Photos also show another Sanger HF fuselage just cut out for comparison. The rear turret area show the discrepancies of the two fuselage halves. Interesting the glazing on the 2nd kit is bigger than the original. New glazing measure 5cm when put together, the old glazing which I used was only 4.5cm, hence the thick cross piece. Sanger kit on build in a Mk I/II, 2nd one is a Mk III and bought a couple of years later. Both are over 12 years old though. Any comment are advice with these vacform kits will be appreciated. 

 

 

Above is the canopy area covered in with my favourite large area filler, Isopon. (Easy to slap on, cheap and very  easy to sand/polish with great paint finish) .

 

 

Above photo shows the rear turret area filled and fitted with a base for the turret turntable along side an untouched Sanger fuselage showing the very poor rear turret area. Plastic is too thin to work properly.

 

 

Above and below is the canopy area. Port and Starboard. Once the whole fuselage is primed I will remove the maks and start the framing. Rear turret area cannot be finshed at this stage until the turrent is cut our and test fitted. The rear fuselage will then be shaped to the turret. Side glazing is plastic from the blank CD used a CD protector in a box of RW CDs. Glues great and crystal clear.

 

[LorenSharp]

Great progress  Icobod. Great thing about Sanger kits, you get to practice thinking outside the box when building.

[bentwaters81tfw]

Interesting to see this. Was talking to a chap at Gloucester who is making one of these for Defford museum. He was comparing it to my FM offering, one of 2 in the same room!

[Icabod]

I built two of the FM Kits both which went to the ATC. It was the arrival of the FM kits which put the Sanger kits (a mk1 and a mk iii) on hold after the engines incidences were wrong.

[Icabod]

Worked on the nose section over the last few days. Sanger have chosen to mould the shorter fuselage for a Mk I/II with the extended nose section where the turret would have been complete with the nose glazing of the MkIII i (does that make sense) I would have preferred a moulding of the extend fuselage and cutting away extend section. It would have been easier. The way Sanger has done it means I have to work out how to represent the interior where the bomb aiming mechanism would be. My solution was to make formers to take the supplied glazing, then cut the glazing and make another former to accept what would be the actual true glazing. Cutting the Sanger vacform section was fraught, and cut very very slowly. 

 

These are the glazed parts I have left after the cockpit was fitted. Note the size of the bomb aimers glazing. The masked area is the true size of glazing needed. 

The resin turret is one I have carved as a former for either a home mould replacement of to shape the turret framing.

 

 

Images below show the former being tested fitted on one side to the glazing and on the other to fuselage.

 

 

 

Below on the left is the 1st former being moulded to the fuselage. At this stage the former insides are still solid. The glazed section is dry fitted to testing. On the right is the blended former with the interior cut out leaving the outer frame.

 

   

 

On the left is the heart in mouth separation of the front glazing from what will be solid fuselage. On the right is the fuselage section with a front former mated to the 1st former shown above.

 

    

 

Tomorrow all being well I will slap some Isopan on the fuselage section and blend the whole lot. Final job will open up the front former and build a bomb aimer position before finally fitting the front glazing. Below is a dry fit to give some idea of how it will look (hopefully).

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray S]

There is some cracking work going on here. Good luck with the rest of your build!

 

Ray

[exdraken]

Fantastic and inspiring work!!

[Icabod]

Back this weekend and managed to sort the nose section out with filler. 

 

This photo shows the nose after the Isopon (dries hard in 30 minutes or so) roughly sanded to shape. The nose glazing is held on with Bluetak to check the line up.

 

Next picture shows the whole fuselage before priming.

 

 

After final sanding smooth with 4000 grit, whole fuselage was primed with Tamiya spray primer and further sanded and painted again. Masking has been removed to check on the cockpit blending and encourage me to continue.

 

Nose former has been opened up ready to make up some kind of bomb aimer flooring and gadgetry.

 

 

Next immediate job will be to rescribe all the lost panel lines . Sanger's lines are somewhat overdone but I am not going to correct them.

After that the framing and the turrets.

 

 

 

[Ptmvarsityfan]

Impressive stuff, excellent real modelling!

Cheers, Paul

[Icabod]

 A bit more done today after work, turret bases made and roughly assembled. The mid-upper turret looks more like a hat box than a turret but the framing when done should round it off a bit. 

 

Rear turret showing process of making the bases. The big roundy bit is to set rotation diameter so I get the position right and the turret which isn't round will rotate without getting stuck in the rear fuselage.

It will be trimmed down when finished.

 

 

 

Finally a summary photo of the progress to date.  This is give me the will to carry on. The next bits are going to be fiddly with thick fingers... grrr....

 

 

Anybody get any advice on interior turret construction would be welcome. My plan so far is to copy the stuff I can find in existing kit instructions downloaded from Scalemates. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Icabod

[elger]

the YouTube channel UK Aircraft Explored has a video exploring the fuselage from the right, left, and from above. Here's the one exploring the port fuselage:

 

 

[Icabod]

Thanks for that. 

[LorenSharp]

That is real handy. Thanks!

[Icabod]

Well the Platinum Jubilee gave me a bit more time to plod on. I decided to crack on with the turrets. I have looked up the Boulton Paul Mechanisms as best I can and have assembled the basic layout. There is still a fair bit of detailing to add but the skeleton allowing the guns to elevate are constructed along with the turret bases and rear. The shape of the rear turret isn't that accurate and I am not sure, at this stage, whether to leave it or sort it. 

This picture is the rear turret skeletal components with the 'Quick Boost' .303 Browning 'Lancaster' barrels loosely pushed into the barrel sockets.

 

The next picture is the bits made so far assembled, unglued for trial fitting.

 

Last two pictures are the turrets placed into the fuselage to keep me enthused with the project....

 

[Icabod]

 A few more photo showing work done over the weekend to the framing and the  turret interiors completed.

Picture below is the rear turret showing the interior. It needs the gun apertures cutting out and the framing doing. I am still no happy with the overall shape.

 

 

Over views of the fuselage work so far. Mid Upper turret framing to be completed of course. Canopy and the nose are now framed. The frame between the cockpit and engineer stations is too large because the engineer glazing was short. (0.5cm). I am not going to correct it.

 

 

[Icabod]

In the end I couldn't go ahead with the Sanger Mid Upper and Rear turrets, the shapes are all wrong. I made a new mid upper casting block  from an FM turret which was too thin to use and finished the rear turret cast I started some time ago. I then vacuum formed some replacement turrets. They now need the insides making and the framing doing but the shapes are much much better plus I have the rear turret cast for the next Sanger Halifax I intend to build, a very early Mk 1. The Sanger type C mid upper turret is more realistic.

 

Picture below is the moulds and the new glazing mounted on the new frames.

 

 

[oldmodeler]

Hello everyone, I am the modeller attempting to make a Halifax II Sr 1 (Merlin) for the Defford museum!!  Saw the completed MK III 's at Churchdown IPMS.... Martin....    Hi everyone. 
Working on the Sanger model, it  requires a great deal of work compared to an injection kit!. Please! anybody know of one!?
Massively impressed with the build here.  I realise I will have to accept an ok-ish build as the Sanger kit is not perfect, but all there is in 1/48. The 1/72 Halifax II by Revell has weird engine shapes. 

Have a spare Boulton-Paul  Defiant  turret if the builder here wants to use that, V9977 had no mid-upper. 

Added several bulkheads  to the fuselage  out of foam board to make a good fit.   
V9977 had Merlin engines and are using the Sanger kit engines, and I  have noted the engine mounting angle compared with the  drawings, they are slightly pitched up compared to the chord at that station .  they have a small cowling opening for the oil-cooler at the front, and the Aerodata book  on the Halifax shows this best. I did the opening before I got the book and made them too small. Milliput was used to make cooling inlet a bit better.   A lot of cutting/ Milliput needed to fit the nacelles the correct angle. ....
I have done  the armoured bulkhead for the pilot as a strong part to pull the canopy into shape, and are  also using another bulkhead shape to pull the front fuselage shape to match the bomb-aimers window under the front turret. Not studied the turret shapes yet. 
Did a scratchbuild of the cockpit internals. The side windows were made of .5mm acrylic, made a transition fit then white glued in place. 
It will take perhaps another three months to get an acceptable model.
To post pictures here I  have to put them on my web pages and make links, they don't seem to be viewable by everybody. 
Have done a Defiant, Blenhiem and Mosquito II for the museum, and have a 1/24 Airfix Mozzie to do next. 
Any advice on building the HALIFAX would be most welcome 

DONE SO FAR: fuselage internals, wings, with a spar , engines and nacelles, cutting off the transparencies to fit, tailplane, undercarriage and wheels.  Made 4-bladed props from the kit 3-bladed spinner and mountings. - fitted brass boss through a brass tube in the engine. 
M