R25 class Räumboot - building finally

[Steve D]

 Sheets 1 and 2 now more or less complete.  I still need to detail the flak c30 a little more but I'm gong to take a break and work out the frame cutting layout so I can start to build this beast.

 

At least I wasn't counting the hours this has taken, retirement is good that way, this would be a really terrible way to make a living. 

 

Still, I'm pleased with the result and can't wait to see the 4 sheets printed (sheet 3 is the lines and sheet 4 is the frame cutting guide).  Sheet 3 needs a lot of notes added, but otherwise it's as I uploaded a couple of months ago.

 

For those interested, this is what sheets 1 and 2 came out like.  Well they are a lot larger of course (all sheets are A1) and with that increase in size, comes many tiny details not visible here.  Every component you will see on the model is included with full 3 or 4 view detail drawings so this is all that is needed to build a super-detailed model.  The windlass and chain stopper alone took me a whole day to sort out... 

 

Given I didn't have a drawing to copy, each component has been worked out from drawings of similar items and review of many many photographs, ensuring the most consistency I can manage.  So, while I admit much of this is conjecture, I believe it is a very good stab at what they were like

 

 

Lastly, the benefit I now have is I have vector drawings of every component and so the etch sheet drafting work will be super fast compared to previous builds

 

Hopefully back later in the week with the frame cutting plan

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Arjan]

Currently some nice pics on Ebay showing vessels of the 10.Räumbootsflottille. Not clear if this sword was the 10th Flotilla marking (second pic) :

 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/363959881179?hash=item54bdb30ddb:g:hEQAAOSwSHljCdrF&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoAQ9H%2FcRDrazslrLIsCoM9ZxsqNvZwqIBDZwO%2FdqJJnBWgkWU%2BoGHB%2BoekMBoMbp7aTpd3Jzyq1kUermBNQHdPbHgwKIx3bUS9XdBLR8ANgWJO8iE0ybOf9zKFMubjoE3855%2BLxa0ShTI0piwj9UQGacer%2BfOhMsISYBoPaaJ4SP2siOXfsM9HZowFwU%2BaHrq7xU%2FtDw5IqcoT29%2FwdP1P0%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_a_0K_dYA

 

More pics :

 

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=10.Räumbootsflottille&_sacat=0

 

Arjan

Edited August 29, 2022 by Arjan

[Steve D]

12 hours ago, Arjan said:

Currently some nice pics on Ebay showing vessels of the 10.Räumbootsflottille

Welcome back Arjan, I've missed your photo contributions. 

 

There are some great pictures there, but sadly most are later Capella sub-class vessels with a more heavily armoured bridge (see great colour picture below), not the earlier sub-type of the R25 class that I am drawing. 

 

It looks like the 10th flotilla was made up from two groups of R25 subclass vessels.  Part from the R159-193 batch which are really very similar to my drawing but with the addition of gun shields and the R218-271 batch which are Capella type vessels, see 10th Flotilla listing

 

The class designations are really confusing, even the various (German) books I have seem to disagree. That said, there are 3 or 4 that are deck shots of the right type which I've grabbed, will clean up and include in my collection.  A couple of interesting details there, great thanks

 

I think the 10th flotilla markings were likely the sort of open-topped vertical mobius strip symbol , seen on a number of those pictures, see below,  but picture attribution is always second hand so who knows really?  This vessel looks to be from the R159-193 batch of the general R25 class sporting a more pronounced stern round-out.  Note the heavy weather staining on the stern....

 

 

One other interesting shot shows these strange objects that appear in many photographs mounted to the engine room casing handrails

 

 

This is the clearest shot yet of these that I've seen.  I suspect they are late-war danbuoy floats (see the hole for a pole and the lifting eye above).  It looks like the poles are stowed behind them, note bottom weight.  Would love to know if I'm right.  They are commonly seen on the operational pictures I have.  Early war danbuoys had conical floats , see to  the right of the picture below

 

 

BTW, these look to be pre-war R21 class vessels, no camouflage paint or steel rear decking

 

I have now accumulated over 250 pictures of these vessels and their fittings, really staggering what months of searching will turn up.  You can never have too much information imho

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Dmitriy1967]

I see the zodiac sign of Taurus in this Mobius strip.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Dmitriy1967

[Steve D]

15 minutes ago, Dmitriy1967 said:

zodiac sign of Taurus

Yup, that's the one...  Not much knowledge of Zodiac signs....

[Dmitriy1967]

1 minute ago, Steve D said:

Yup, that's the one...  Not much knowledge of Zodiac signs....

I just talked a lot with women....

[Steve D]

And here is the frame plan ready to create the laser cutting artwork.  I still need to add some notes to the second sheet, but otherwise I'm done.  Tomorrow I'll get that last stage sorted (rearranging on the right size ply sheet and colouring for the laser) so I can send it off to 4D for cutting out.

 

 

Then we can actually start building... at last!  Quite a drawing marathon

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Arjan]

One of the Ebay pics shows the Kanaal door Walcheren with the town of Veere in the background. Zeeland is my home province and I know this area well  🙂:

 

 

This pic shows the HMS Vindictive memorial in Ostend :

 

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Arjan

[Steve D]

2 hours ago, Arjan said:

Ebay pics shows the Kanaal door Walcheren with the town of Veere

Thanks for the added colour Arjan.  That was actually one of the pictures I downloaded, great close-up detail of the wheelhouse roof railings and port radio aerial spar...

 

Fun fact, I lived and worked in the oil industry in Den Haag in the mid-70's and have very fond memories of Holland as it's where I met my English wife.  Today is our 44th wedding anniversary, so I appreciate your post even more!

[Arjan]

Congratulations Steve ! The Grote Kerk of Veere, visible in the pics, has a very rich history. During the Walcheren Campaign of 1809 it was shelled by the British troops and turned into a military hospital and baracks. The French army later also used it as a stable for their horses 🙂.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walcheren_Campaign

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

[Steve D]

To keep the information flowing, this is the frame artwork in the form required for laser cutting, exported as an A0 pdf file.  

 

The colour key is:

 

Green: cut through outer (used for outlines)

Blue: cut through, inner (used for holes)

Red: engrave surface

 

Should be here early next week 

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Dmitriy1967]

Oh, how many pleasant hours spent with a jigsaw in your hands you lose...

 

 

Steve, congratulations on your wedding anniversary! 🎉

Edited September 2, 2022 by Dmitriy1967

[Steve D]

2 hours ago, Dmitriy1967 said:

how many pleasant hours spent with a jigsaw in your hands you lose...

Dmitriy,

 

So many times I have done this and I still carry the scars.  I recognise it is a luxury and admit feeling somewhat sheepish but the accuracy the laser can achieve is amazing...

 

Thx for the congrats, they say the first 30 years are the hardest, I'm not so sure.....

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Steve D]

Distraction post nothing to do with motor minesweepers, just a selection of pictures from a gathering of "little ships" i.e. Dunkirk veterans, on the Thames yesterday in Chertsey. 

 

All wonderful modelling subjects

 

 

 

 

 

And lastly, just imagine crossing the channel under fire in this one....

 

 

My grandfather was there and thankfully survived, lest we forget

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Steve D]

Meanwhile, its good to be building again...

 

Frame sheet arrived from 4d today.  I must be getting better, no sanding needed, this one just slotted together.

 

Here are the 32 pieces ready for assembly after removing the protective paper (see burn marks on the waste, the paper protects the play against that burning)

 

 

And here they are trial-fitted together

 

 

As before, I've included two longitudinal frames that lock everything together and help keep it all straight

 

And now on the base-board between some 3/8th inch square timbers to ensure straightness while gluing

 

 

The longitudinal frames sit either side of the deckhouse at its widest.  There are ply packers to the rear section which is narrower.  The deckhouse inner box frame is sitting in position.  It has 0.8 mm clearance all round as it is covered in ply later.  Forward and to the rear of the longitudinal frames are 1/8 inch sq timbers to help keep the frames at right-angles to the keel.  Really, these would be better as cut frames as well, something to do next time.

 

Between the last frame and the transom are two horizontal frames that fit the location of the rudder shafts.  Some scrap MDF blocks have been mounted and drilled out to help keep these shafts vertical (bottom left)  

 

 

Lastly, the various brass tubes are set in place, deckhouse box in background

 

 

Forward of frame 3 is the tube that will house the steel mounting pin

 

With the laser cut frames, this bit is so quick, next onto installing the balsa blocks

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

 

[Steve D]

Well they say the first casualty in war is the plan.  In my case, that applies to my drawings.  Months ago when I started this, I struggled to make the wheelhouse work given the parameters I had, namely

• Size of windows, both the front three and the diagonal
• The overall width of the wheelhouse
• The apparent slope of the front face

Geometry can't be fiddled, it just is.  The windows are ~500mm square give or take and they all look the same in the many photographs I have accumulated, with the proviso that the windows on the diagonal appear to be narrower (I've used 400mm), so not hugely so.  Allowing for framing, and judging the width from the photographs,, this gives me a flat front ~2.4m wide.  All good and that's the way I drew the GA.  The problem is that I did not go back and amend the lines drawing which had drawn earlier with a front of 1.8 m, it was on my mental list to rework but somehow (age ...) it slipped off the list.  The upshot being that the diagonal front on the framing is too narrow and too far forward for the wheelhouse. 

 

So, I can work around it but my pride takes its usual hammering   This proves why drawings should be checked by an independent person, not the one who drew them

 

The remaining problem is that to permit the deckhouse assembly to remain removable, I have two small corners of the deck that will remove with the deckhouse, frustrating, but no one will know if you don't tell....

 

BTW, the next logical stage is the balsa infill, but the balsa block was delayed and building the deckhouse buck (it will be covered with metal) is easier with the frame all open.

 

So, I did what I should have done before finalising the frames and prepared the wheelhouse expansion drawings.  Here they are printed and stuck to 0.5mm ply ready to cut out

 

 

Some time later...... 

 

Note the shelf at the front that should not be there.... Actually most of it is covered by the forward skylight, its only the corners that are the problem

 

 

Rear view shows how open this wheelhouse was

 

 

These window openings are deliberately slightly oversize as they will be glazed against the metal cladding, no window frames on the R-boote.  The armour plating was added after they were built in wood, so that's the way I'm doing it.  I'm tempted to etch the armour cladding as I can then model the rivet detail correctly and perfectly, jury out on that decision. 

 

Whatever, the bridge sides will  be incorporated in the sides for strength and appearance, down to the ply deck level.  This box is at least a perfect fit in the frame opening, but that's a stupid mistake, really annoyed at myself.  I've amended the drawings, so anyone following won't have this compromise to deal with.

 

 

It's remarkably flat fronted, so much so I checked back to the photographs to make sure I'd not got that wrong as well.  But no, they were very flat fronted, almost vertical.  Its also a very large wheel house by comparison to RN vessels and given those large windows, I'm going to need to model some form of interior, it will be clearly visible.  The three windows facing to the rear, the open bridge are visible in the dockyard pictures, but I think at least the middle one was closed up in practice, its a lot of glass to shatter

 

Hope to make a little progress on the infill sections next

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Arjan]

Looking good Steve ! I have recently found some better pics of German depth charges (better late than never) :

 

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

 

[Steve D]

6 hours ago, Arjan said:

I have recently found some better pics of German depth charges (better late than never) :

That's great Arjan, many thanks

 

It's all consistent with what I've drawn however the stiffener detail on the back is not something I'd noticed before and will model

 

 

It's these little details that I love 👍

 

I realised overnight that I've been blabbering on about the construction and not explained how I'm building this hull, not helpful.  It is the same method used on the MGB but I guess not everyone has read that thread (not sure why not...) so here is a scratch view from the lines sheet that explains the way I'm building the hull and deck-house.  I hope this will fill in the gaps to make what I'm writing clearer

 

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Courageous]

On 9/8/2022 at 4:47 PM, Steve D said:

annoyed at myself. 

Don't be, it's being human, we all have our slip ups and I'm sure you'll learn from it. I think that what you've done so far is very commendable, wish I had the same skill.

 

Stuart

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, Courageous said:

it's being human

Well Stuart, as they say, "to err is human but to really scr*w-up, you need a computer".  In my case, both apply...

 

Still, back to the build and the last update for a bit as we are off for a short break in Spain.

 

More work on the wheelhouse, this time the roof which will be removable until quite late in the build (certainly after the cladding is in place).

 

This was made with transverse beams to hold the curved shape and an outer border timber to help form the rounded edge

 

 

The support beams for the roof decking were also installed and sanded flat, also helping to maintain the shape (0.5 mm ply roof)

 

 

The companion-way opening is also included, I'm going to fit out the interior and leave this open (probably...)

 

 

Here back in the hull frame

 

 

I'm still staggered how large this is (about 12ft by 14ft), still it also contained the radio so I guess it makes some sense

 

Next the inner corners of the longitudinal frame were reinforced as those outstands need to be removed before installing the balsa

 

 

 

They are useful  to help the frame slot together but interfere with the balsa

 

Which I started but ran out of time, so it stays work in progress until we are back.  Always rough at this stage, plenty of planning and sanding to go.  It's quite a big hull, comparable (actually slightly longer) with the Fairmile B but with much finer lines

 

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Bertie McBoatface]

Hi Steve. I just caught up. You’ve produced another fascinating thread and will undoubtedly make a lovely model once again. 
 

Im a lot less interested in Axis vessels than the Allied side so you have done extra well getting me onto the follow list! 

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

Im a lot less interested in Axis vessels than the Allied

Thanks Bertie 

I also have mostly information about RN vessels so this is a voyage of discovery for me. Still, the early R-boats clearly show their motor yacht lineage which I like and I get to build a wooden deck which is great

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

I saw this and thought of you.

[Steve D]

OK, I'm back and back to work.

 

Completed the balsa block rough cutting and shaping.  You can see from this picture that this model could easily be turned into a working model, lots of space for running gear.

 

 

Lots of dust and sawdust, I even wore a mask 😷

 

The shaping at this stage is very rough, still a long way to go but the knuckle is starting to take shape

 

 

The laser cutting burns the ply black, so it is easy to see when to stop sanding as the black lines disappear

 

I also sent my drawings off to be printed.  They still need some work, but are easily good enough for me to work from and having them on the wall allows me to check them more carefully than I can do on the screen.

 

Show below on my magnetic wall with the books I've used as source material

 

 

This is my first set of completed model plans (normally I just do multiple scratch views) and I'm actually quite happy the way they came out.  They are better than many plans I've worked from in the past

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

[robgizlu]

Steve - equal parts  Superb and Inspirational - as ever.  always such clean work.

Thrice Wow.  

The depth charge and holder are so similar to the RN version.

Rob