Any Tiger Moth in TSS or Desert scheme?

[KRK4m]

It is widely believed that nearly 100% of the Royal Navy Tiger Moths retained the standard RAF camouflage, or TLS (Dark Earth/Dark Green), with the lower wing upper surfaces being painted in Light Earth and Light Green up to 1941. From time to time, however, some "defiant" photos and profiles of Tiger Moths appear in the TSS (EDSG/Dark Slate Grey) scheme.

One of them is T7187 (option in the 1/72 AZ7471 kit, also seen on floats), another is T8191 from the Yeovilton collection (ex G-BWMK). Do any of them have anything to do with the historical truth of 1935-45 period, or is it a total bogus scheme?

Cheers

Michael

Edited May 19, 2022 by KRK4m
alternative added

[Ngantek]

I have basically no knowledge of this at all, but a quick glance at the AZ kit has a ocean grey / skyblue /sky blue underside scheme. The pictures I found of T8191 (when not painted ally) look more like dark green / dark sea grey (or perhaps ocean grey?) / yellow to me, although perhaps I'm mistaken? Neither seem at first Google to be TSS. Could you post the images that you're seeing?

[KRK4m]

I see that I should be more precise in asking questions - English is not my native tongue and I still have a lot of catching up to do here.

So the main issue is that I would like to paint the next Tiger Moth in my collection in a scheme other than Dark Green/Dark Earth/Yellow or silver overall. TSS over Yellow seems to be a natural option, because some 2nd line Royal Navy machines (Reliant, Oxford) were seen in such colours. But Google offers me only these two "grey schemes", which at a distance shout "my name is bogus".

I can only hope that the T8191 from Yeovilton is trying to pretend to be such a variant of painting, and Dark Green was used on it only due to the lack of availability (?) of the Dark Slate Grey paint. In turn, T7187 in the photos looks like NFS (Sea Grey Medium with dark pattern above), in which Dark Green was replaced by some dark grey - probably Dark Sea Grey. And the fact that AZ described them as Sky Blue and Ocean Grey is another matter entirely.

Cheers

Michael

[Lee Howard]

The photos of T8191 you refer to are almost certainly from its days with RNHF at Yeovilton during the 1970s. This was a modern application of camouflage, replacing its original RN scheme of silver overall with dayglo patches. As such, it shouldn't be regarded as anything other than an over-exuberant and ill-informed application. Tiger Moths in RN service retained their RAF schemes during the war, other than some that carried special schemes, such as dark blue overall applied to P4709 at RNARY Fayid. I don't recall having ever seen an Oxford in TSS.

[KRK4m]

The TSS over Yellow Oxford HN767 http://www.wings-aviation.ch/51-Profiles/A/A-Basis-en.htm   was discussed there

However, as I see it, the RN Tiger Moth is a completely different fairy tale and the chances of finding an example in TSS over Yellow are close to zero.

That's why I'm changing the thread title and expanding my question with an alternative: Tiger Moth (not necessarily a trainer, probably a squadron hack) in desert Dark Earth/Middle Stone camouflage. There are such Oxfords, Ansons, Harvards and Magisters - both with Yellow undersides and with Azure Blue ones.

Apart from one skin from the IL-2 game and a photo from 112 Squadron galllery, are there any traces of the "desert" Tiger Moth somewhere?

Cheers

Michael

 

[Paul J]

I would not have thought there were Tiger Moths in the Western desert area due to them being mainly wood, fabric and glue construction which would be harmed by the hot desert sun. I know other types operated out there like the Gladiator for example, but had some metal construction.

I have never seen pictures of Tiger Moths in that theatre either or any reference to them. However several were used further south in South Africa and the then Rhodesia where the climate may have been more suitable.But I expect someone will come up with information.

[Ngantek]

1 hour ago, Paul J said:

I would not have thought there were Tiger Moths in the Western desert area due to them being mainly wood, fabric and glue construction which would be harmed by the hot desert sun.

It's getting off topic a little but I was just reading about Norman Hanson crashing tiger moth N9121 belonging to 775 squadron FAA at Dekhelia, Alexandria in his memoirs (Carrier Pilot). I can't find anything about colour of course but that seems a plenty 'desert' environment. He mentions 'one of our tiger moths', implying there were several.

[KRK4m]

2 hours ago, Paul J said:

I would not have thought there were Tiger Moths in the Western desert area due to them being mainly wood, fabric and glue construction which would be harmed by the hot desert sun. I know other types operated out there like the Gladiator for example, but had metal construction.

I have never seen pictures of Tiger Moths in that theatre either or any reference to them. However several were used further south in South Africa and the then Rhodesia where the climate may have been more suitable.But I expect someone will come up with information.

Paul - 30 years ago I was rebuilding the Tiger Moth in the Polish Aviation Museum in Krakow and I remember that although the wings and tail were wooden (glued), the fuselage was certainly an all-metal truss - of course the whole plane was fabric covered. Thus, it did not differ much technologically from the Bristol Fighter or DH.9A, which for several years served in RAF units in Africa and the Middle East.
The completely wooden (glued plywood) structure was another primary trainer, Miles Magister. And even this one was used in North Africa during the war by the RAF (e.g. P2378 in Libya according to the RS #92120 kit and R1883 in Egypt according to RS #92167), and after the war by the Egyptian Air Force. Also in the chronicle of the 112 Sq. there is a 1941 photo of Tiger Moth with the number 43 on the engine cowl and a fin flash on the rudder (like on the Hurricanes in France). http://raf-112-squadron.org/raf_112_squadron_photos_1941.html

Cheers

Michael

[jimmaas]

20 hours ago, KRK4m said:

 Also in the chronicle of the 112 Sq. there is a 1941 photo of Tiger Moth with the number 43 on the engine cowl and a fin flash on the rudder (like on the Hurricanes in France). http://raf-112-squadron.org/raf_112_squadron_photos_1941.html

Cheers

Michael

The rudder stripes make me wonder if that could be an Egyptian AF aircraft.  Can't see the stat and crescent in the roundel but otherwise similar.

[DennisTheBear]

On 5/20/2022 at 3:49 AM, Paul J said:

I would not have thought there were Tiger Moths in the Western desert area due to them being mainly wood, fabric and glue construction which would be harmed by the hot desert sun. I know other types operated out there like the Gladiator for example, but had some metal construction.

I have never seen pictures of Tiger Moths in that theatre either or any reference to them. However several were used further south in South Africa and the then Rhodesia where the climate may have been more suitable.But I expect someone will come up with information.

The RAAF used Tiger Moths in northern Australia and New Guinea which would cover conditions from "oh my god its hot and dry/damp" to "oh my god its even hotter and drier/drenching wet than it was 10 minutes ago". Not to mention the many record breaking flights made by its older brother the Gypsy Moth.

I really don't think the conditions in North Africa would have been a bar to it flying in the MTO. 

[Paul J]

From that all I can say is 'suppose so'. But I still haven't see any evidence of desert schemes on the Tiger Moth.