What should I work on next with paints and colors?

[Casey]

I have way too many paint related projects I am doing at once. Earth gives me only 24h per day, so I need some input there:

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

@Casey could you do modern Japanese color mixes for Tamiya ? Ive voted for the Japanese option above in hopes that you may eventually cover more modern colors. Id like to do a number of Japanese aircraft post 1960. However the colors are not easily identifiable unless you can 1) read Japanese, and 2) understand the name ? This is an example of the colors I am trying to find more info on. It was an F-86 used as a testbed aircraft for the F-1 aircraft camouflage. 
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chaika12/45756009341

 

Dennis

[Casey]

32 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

@Casey could you do modern Japanese color mixes for Tamiya ? Ive voted for the Japanese option above in hopes that you may eventually cover more modern colors. Id like to do a number of Japanese aircraft post 1960. However the colors are not easily identifiable unless you can 1) read Japanese, and 2) understand the name ? This is an example of the colors I am trying to find more info on. It was an F-86 used as a testbed aircraft for the F-1 aircraft camouflage. 
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chaika12/45756009341

 

Dennis

NDS Z8201E is best I got, and they have Munsell system references - which is a color system I use a lot too.

 

I could use those to make mixes that fits them - if they are considered precise matches by community.

[Ngantek]

Do what makes you happy! One entirely self serving viewpoint might be that, Tamiyas being in fairly common usage, that characterising more of them before going though a lot of work matching different paint colours is an overall time saver; but (without knowing anything about the process), I suspect that would be the most boring of the jobs. If there are any approaches that are most fun or most helpful to you personally, I'd certainly go with that. Thanks for all the work you're doing on paint!

 

Andy

[Casey]

2 hours ago, Ngantek said:

Do what makes you happy! One entirely self serving viewpoint might be that, Tamiyas being in fairly common usage, that characterising more of them before going though a lot of work matching different paint colours is an overall time saver; but (without knowing anything about the process), I suspect that would be the most boring of the jobs. If there are any approaches that are most fun or most helpful to you personally, I'd certainly go with that. Thanks for all the work you're doing on paint!

 

Andy

I like to dabble in paints and do something that is useful for more than just me.

 

With Tamiya - It is just amount of work I need to do on that To characterize a single paint I need to carefully prepare ~10+ samples, so 80 paints is like 800 samples to do. But I guess you have a point there.

 

First thing I want to check is how different are batch variations of Tamiya paints.

 

If they are wildly different, it is kind of pointless exercise... but proving that also could have also have an chilling effect on other Tamiya users...

Edited May 18, 2022 by Casey

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

First thing I want to check is how different are batch variations of Tamiya paints.

 

If they are wildly different, it is kind of pointless exercise... but proving that also could have also an rather chilling effect on other Tamiya users...

This would greatly help.

I have said before that I have some Tamiya paints that are massively different despite the same number,  though some are old eg XF-17 in 23ml jar is a deep blue green, a recent XF-17 10Ml much darker blue. .... which is blinkin' annoying as the old XF-17 plus X-16 purple made a really simple mix for USN ANA623 Gloss Sea Blue.

Note these USN Sea Blues are poorly represented by most model paints. 

 

personally I'd really like a mix for RAF Dark Earth.   The best I have got so far is

Black:1, XF-10 Flat Brown :2, XF-3 Yellow :3,  XF-59 Dark Yellow :3,  though I think XF-3:4  to XF-59:2 maybe closer.    I need to do another mix,  and I know what you mean about time. 

 

Mixes for Japanese WW2 paints would be handy as well.    RLM mixes are OK,  but they are, unsurprisingly, reasonably well served in paint.

 

cheers

T

 

[Casey]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

USN ANA623 Gloss Sea Blue

I think I have a decent match for FS15042 using the Tamiya paints I got measured, if it helps... 

 

I heard conflicting opinions about this equivalence on range from "Absolutely the same" to "Completely different", depends on who you poke.

 

Here it is from my math:

 

I will mix a real sample, give me a second.

 

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, Casey said:

I think I have a decent match for FS15042 using the Tamiya paints I got measured, if it helps... 

 

FS15042  GSB  is NOT the same color as wartime ANA623 GSB.

ANA623 changed color in 1947,  as the wartime faded too quickly. 

AFAIK, the post 1947 ANA623 was then incorporated into FS595 as FS15042

this is from @Dana Bell

  

On 31/12/2016 at 14:42, Dana Bell said:

There are a couple of other reasons the model paint manufacturers have had problems matching the Sea Blues.  Most are working from the FS595 chips, which never accurately matched all three versions of the wartime colors.  The other problem is that the formula for ANA 623 Glossy Sea Blue changed in 1947/48.  The original color faded to quickly and was replaced with more resilient pigments.  When the US Navy gave modelers the old stocks of ANA paint chips in the 1960s/70s, some of us got the 1944 card-stock chip of ANA 623, while others got the 1948 metal replacement chips.  I can well remember the arguments back then, arguments that arose because we were working from different standards!

 

note this regarding the other Sea Blues,

ANA606 Semi-Gloss Sea Blue

ANA607 Non-Specular Sea Blue

 

this is to do with the USN tri colur scheme....

"The scheme is actually four colors - white, Intermediate Blue, Semi-gloss Sea Blue (atop the wings and horizontal tail), and Non-Specular Sea Blue (atop the fuselage and on leading edges of the wings and stabs). The last two colors differ in more than the gloss factor - non-spec is distinctly grayer and lighter than the semi-gloss. I generally refer to the scheme as 4-color to clarify the differences."

 

It's not uncommon too see these being matched to FS25042 and FS35042...

 

see

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235049797-us-navy-sea-blues/

 

the book is this

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Official-Monogram-Navy-Marine-Corps-Aircraft/31009870271

there are scans of the chips here 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235041933-us-intermediate-blue/page/2/#elControls_3319460_menu

 

More so you can see what colors are in the book. 

 

This also has multiple chips, at least 30.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0914144464

 

They can go for a lot, I got copies reasonably cheaply,  so they do turn up. 

 

HTH

[Casey]

4 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

ANA606 Semi-Gloss Sea Blue

ANA607 Non-Specular Sea Blue

 

 

Do you mean THOSE chips from Monogram publishing?

 

 

Funny thing is, this Semi-Gloss Sea Blue 606 is a close (DE0.44) match with FS15042 I also have... this may have added to my confusion.

 

Let me try to calculate how it would look as Tamiya mix

 

 

[Casey]

Funny...

 

For semi gloss blue I got two example recipes:

 

Or for cheaper and less precise recipe:

I wonder if the formulation change was because of ultramarine-disease (ability of this pigment itself to cause changes in binder and making it 'dull').

 

---

 

607 is much harder - this is closest I could do with the XF1-16. It is a metameric match too.

 

 

 

[Casey]

And here is my homemade paint chip with a flat paint professionally being compared to a gloss one. I whisked it from the more complex mixture using volume not weight.

 

 

But here is what the meter says. Not that bad of a match.