KRK4m Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Quite a lot of RAF training aircraft flew in the MTO area, some of them as squadron hacks and liaison machines in combat units. I've seen a desert scheme (DE/MS) on a Miles Magister, a Tiger Moth, an Airspeed Oxford and a NA Harvard. But I've never encountered such colours on the RAF most important single-engine advanced trainer, which (IMHO) was the Miles M.19/27 Master. Couldn't the entire 3,250 pieces stick their nose out of Britain? And the examples delivered to the Egyptian Air Force (DL251, 252, 271, 275, 276, 278, 279, 280) or Turkey? Haven't they flown anywhere in the Middle East before? Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Hi I vaguely recall seeing many years ago a luftwaffe photo of a wreck on e bay taken in the desert probably it was on the no longer lemb website cheers jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 According to the British Export report 2 Masters were sent to the Middle East in May 1941, looking at the Serial Registers one of these was N7885, reported in West Africa, finally Struck Off Charge 1 August 1943. Given the export date the other would be from the N or T serial orders. Takoradi reports 2 Master on Hand during August 1941, not sure if they were sent any further, remembering Takoradi was officially in the Middle East command for aircraft accounting purposes. Other exports were, Portugal, 2 in October 1941, 8 in April 1942, 4 in September 1943. South Africa, 451 from June 1941 to August 1942. Turkey, 13 in January and 12 in March 1944, 21 in March and 4 in April 1945. Looking at the Serial Registers these actually served with Turkey and Egypt and possibly the RAF in the Middle East, but most likely direct to Turkey and Egypt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF67 Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Kites, Birds and Stuff, Miles Aircraft, suggests 21 Mk ll and 5 Mk lll went to Egypt: Mk ll (Swindon) - DL 976, 977, 978, 979, 983, DM 166, 167, 168, 170, 173, 179, 180 Mk ll (Woodley) - DL 251, 252, 271, 272, 275-8, 280 Mk lll - DM 227, 232 - 235. (Any errors are probably my poor interpretation of info provided!) I have a 1/48 Mk 1 Master in the stash - I’m saving it as a treat to myself one day😎 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted May 15, 2022 Author Share Posted May 15, 2022 3 hours ago, brewerjerry said: Hi I vaguely recall seeing many years ago a luftwaffe photo of a wreck on e bay taken in the desert probably it was on the no longer lemb website Thanks, Jerry - I also saw a photo of a wreck in some desert environment, but mine came from SAAF - not Luftwaffe 1 hour ago, BillF67 said: Kites, Birds and Stuff, Miles Aircraft, suggests 21 Mk ll and 5 Mk lll went to Egypt: Mk ll (Swindon) - DL 976, 977, 978, 979, 983, DM 166, 167, 168, 170, 173, 179, 180 Mk ll (Woodley) - DL 251, 252, 271, 272, 275-8, 280 Mk lll - DM 227, 232 - 235. Thank you Bill - no errors so far 👏 2 hours ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said: According to the British Export report 2 Masters were sent to the Middle East in May 1941, one of these was N7885, reported in West Africa, Takoradi reports 2 Master on Hand during August 1941, not sure if they were sent any further, remembering Takoradi was officially in the Middle East command for aircraft accounting purposes. Other exports were, Portugal, 2 in October 1941, 8 in April 1942, 4 in September 1943. South Africa, 451 from June 1941 to August 1942. Turkey, 13 in January and 12 in March 1944, 21 in March and 4 in April 1945. These actually served with Turkey and Egypt and possibly the RAF in the Middle East, but most likely direct to Turkey and Egypt. In Portugal (and Ireland) they were in TLS, in SAAF overall yellow, in Turkey (a blurry photo) - perhaps NMF. I have never seen a picture of the Egyptian one. Thank you, Geoffrey - export to Turkey 25 in 1944 and 25 in 1945 makes fifty. On the Turkish site they claim that only 8 in 1943 (sic!) and 12 in 1945 (plus 7 Martinet TTs). This leaves 30 for Egypt, where 26 serial nos have been confirmed. Thus 4 a/c have to be either lost or left in RAF ME depots. Moreover Egypt claims that all 26 were accepted in 1945, so 13 of them remained somewhere in RAF ME depots for at least a year. So there is still a chance for the desert camo RAF Master - I hope time will show one 👍 Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Hi not a master but is this martinet in desert colours ? cheers jerry http://homepage.eircom.net/~wrgi/martinetcor.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Looking through the serial registers, Portugal, W8626, W8627 10-Oct-41 W8882 10-Apr-42 W8892, W8893, W8943, W8948 14-Apr-42 W8900 27-Apr-42 W8907, W8950 28-Apr-42 DK891, DK953, W9019 18-Sep-43 Unknown Sep-43 Using various references and the Serial Registers gives 46 serials, versus 50 reported shipped 1944 and 1945, of these 46 the count is 15 Egypt, 2 Middle East, 2 no mention and 28 Turkey, some entries have 2 destinations, format is serial, believed destination, serial register destinations and dates. DL232 Egypt, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DL251 Egypt, 16-Apr-44 Middle East/Egypt DL252 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey DL271 Egypt, 16-Apr-44 Middle East, 17-Jun-44 Egypt (date unclear) DL272 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DL275 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DL276 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DL277 Turkey, 28-Apr-45 Turkey, Egypt (crossed out) DL278 Middle East, 16-Jun-44 Middle East DL279 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DL280 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey DL863 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DL891 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DL902 no mention DL937 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DL940 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DL976 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey DL977 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DL978 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey DL979 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 29-Jul-44 Egypt (date unclear) DL983 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt DM113 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM166 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DM167 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DM168 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt DM170 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt DM173 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DM174 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM179 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DM180 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DM227 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt DM231 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM232 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey DM233 no mention DM234 Middle East, 16-Jun-44 Middle East DM235 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 27-Jul-44 Egypt DM273 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM276 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM335 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM346 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM351 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM376 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey DM454 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey EM381 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey EM385 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey EM405 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF67 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Bl@@dy amazing the stuff that comes up on this site!👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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