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Any Miles Master in the MTO ?


KRK4m
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Quite a lot of RAF training aircraft flew in the MTO area, some of them as squadron hacks and liaison machines in combat units. I've seen a desert scheme (DE/MS) on a Miles Magister, a Tiger Moth, an Airspeed Oxford and a NA Harvard. 

But I've never encountered such colours on the RAF most important single-engine advanced trainer, which (IMHO) was the Miles M.19/27 Master. Couldn't the entire 3,250 pieces stick their nose out of Britain?

And the examples delivered to the Egyptian Air Force (DL251, 252, 271, 275, 276, 278, 279, 280) or Turkey? Haven't they flown anywhere in the Middle East before?

Cheers

Michael

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Hi

    I vaguely recall seeing many years ago a luftwaffe photo of a wreck on e bay taken in the desert 

 

  probably it was on the no longer lemb  website 

 

   cheers

     jerry 

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According to the British Export report 2 Masters were sent to the Middle East in May 1941, looking at the Serial Registers one of these was N7885, reported in West Africa, finally Struck Off Charge 1 August 1943.  Given the export date the other would be from the N or T serial orders.  Takoradi reports 2 Master on Hand during August 1941, not sure if they were sent any further, remembering Takoradi was officially in the Middle East command for aircraft accounting purposes.

 

Other exports were,

Portugal, 2 in October 1941, 8 in April 1942, 4 in September 1943.

South Africa, 451 from June 1941 to August 1942.

Turkey, 13 in January and 12 in March 1944, 21 in March and 4 in April 1945.  Looking at the Serial Registers these actually served with Turkey and Egypt and possibly the RAF in the Middle East, but most likely direct to Turkey and Egypt.

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Kites, Birds and Stuff, Miles Aircraft, suggests 21 Mk ll and 5 Mk lll went to Egypt:

 

Mk ll (Swindon) - DL 976, 977, 978, 979, 983, DM 166, 167, 168, 170, 173, 179, 180

Mk ll (Woodley) - DL 251, 252, 271, 272, 275-8, 280

Mk lll - DM 227, 232 - 235.

(Any errors are probably my poor interpretation of info provided!)

I have a 1/48 Mk 1 Master in the stash - I’m saving it as a treat to myself one day😎

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3 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

    I vaguely recall seeing many years ago a luftwaffe photo of a wreck on e bay taken in the desert

  probably it was on the no longer lemb  website

Thanks, Jerry - I also saw a photo of a wreck in some desert environment, but mine came from SAAF - not Luftwaffe

1 hour ago, BillF67 said:

Kites, Birds and Stuff, Miles Aircraft, suggests 21 Mk ll and 5 Mk lll went to Egypt:

Mk ll (Swindon) - DL 976, 977, 978, 979, 983, DM 166, 167, 168, 170, 173, 179, 180

Mk ll (Woodley) - DL 251, 252, 271, 272, 275-8, 280

Mk lll - DM 227, 232 - 235.

Thank you Bill - no errors so far 👏

2 hours ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

According to the British Export report 2 Masters were sent to the Middle East in May 1941, one of these was N7885, reported in West Africa,   Takoradi reports 2 Master on Hand during August 1941, not sure if they were sent any further, remembering Takoradi was officially in the Middle East command for aircraft accounting purposes.

Other exports were,

Portugal, 2 in October 1941, 8 in April 1942, 4 in September 1943.

South Africa, 451 from June 1941 to August 1942.

Turkey, 13 in January and 12 in March 1944, 21 in March and 4 in April 1945.  These actually served with Turkey and Egypt and possibly the RAF in the Middle East, but most likely direct to Turkey and Egypt.

In Portugal (and Ireland) they were in TLS, in SAAF overall yellow, in Turkey (a blurry photo) - perhaps NMF. I have never seen a picture of the Egyptian one.

Thank you, Geoffrey - export to Turkey 25 in 1944 and 25 in 1945 makes fifty. On the Turkish site they claim that only 8 in 1943 (sic!) and 12 in 1945 (plus 7 Martinet TTs).

This leaves 30 for Egypt, where 26 serial nos have been confirmed. Thus 4 a/c have to be either lost or left in RAF ME depots. 

Moreover Egypt claims that all 26 were accepted in 1945, so 13 of them remained somewhere in RAF ME depots for at least a year.

So there is still a chance for the desert camo RAF Master - I hope time will show one 👍

Cheers

Michael

 

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Looking through the serial registers, Portugal,

W8626, W8627 10-Oct-41
W8882 10-Apr-42
W8892, W8893, W8943, W8948 14-Apr-42
W8900 27-Apr-42
W8907,  W8950 28-Apr-42
DK891, DK953, W9019 18-Sep-43
Unknown Sep-43

 

Using various references and the Serial Registers gives 46 serials, versus 50 reported shipped 1944 and 1945, of these 46 the count is 15 Egypt, 2 Middle East, 2 no mention and 28 Turkey, some entries have 2 destinations, format is serial, believed destination, serial register destinations and dates.

DL232 Egypt, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DL251 Egypt, 16-Apr-44 Middle East/Egypt
DL252 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey
DL271 Egypt, 16-Apr-44 Middle East, 17-Jun-44 Egypt (date unclear)
DL272 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DL275 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DL276 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DL277 Turkey, 28-Apr-45 Turkey, Egypt (crossed out)
DL278 Middle East, 16-Jun-44 Middle East
DL279 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DL280 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey
DL863 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DL891 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DL902 no mention
DL937 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DL940 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DL976 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey
DL977 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DL978 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey
DL979 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 29-Jul-44 Egypt (date unclear)
DL983 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt
DM113 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM166 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DM167 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DM168 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt
DM170 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt
DM173 Egypt, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DM174 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM179 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DM180 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DM227 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, Egypt
DM231 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM232 Turkey, 17-Feb-44 Turkey
DM233 no mention
DM234 Middle East, 16-Jun-44 Middle East
DM235 Egypt, 16-Jun-44 Middle East, 27-Jul-44 Egypt
DM273 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM276 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM335 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM346 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM351 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM376 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
DM454 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
EM381 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
EM385 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey
EM405 Turkey, Apr-45 Turkey

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