Possible error in Eduard Spitfire Mk.IIb instructions - DW-G

[al_the_drummer]

Hello gents,

 

Hope there's a Spitfire-brain out there who can help me with what seems to be a very strange error in Eduard's instructions for the markings of their Mk.IIb Profipack, specifically the scheme of Frederick Gaze, flying from Westhampnett in June 1941. In the profile, there are no upper wing roundels shown. Not a sausage – just the dark earth/green pattern and walkway stencils. I'm perplexed. I've not been able to find any reference to his specific aircraft online, but despite that, I'm almost certain it's an error on Eduard's part, as I've never, ever come across a Spit with no upper roundels, and can find no reference to support this unusual omission. Underwing absence, sure. Different theatres, sure, overpainted, different sizes, different operators...we know the drill. However, NONE? I simply can't believe it!

 

Can anyone shed any light on this little puzzler?

 

For what it's worth, beyond the quandary it's an outstanding kit.

 

Thanks in advance, and happy modelling,

Al

[JackG]

Would not know the reason why, but from the  Australian War Memorial site:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C38707

 

regards,

Jack

[al_the_drummer]

What an incredible find... Thank you so much for digging that up. What an unusual thing to see... Maybe I'll go ahead and have a roundel-less spit for a real change!

[Mark Postlethwaite]

I think the roundels are there, but hidden by a fiendish combination of faded paint, reflection and uneven tones.  The biggest clue is on the port wing where the green wingtip camo suddenly stops, exactly where the roundel would be.  The red and blue in the fuselage roundel are pretty similar in tone so fade them a bit and stick a filter on the lens, as us b/w photographers used to do, and you'd have a pretty convincingly disappeared roundel!

[JackG]

It does seem glare and fade is the likely explanation for the 'disappearing' wing top roundels.  

 

A coloured filter is inconclusive...

 

For straight Panchromatic type film,  the fuselage roundel appears to match the photo's grey tones.   The tail marking would then indicate it leads with blue which is not official standard, but am certain this anomaly exists has been discussed before?

 

 

Have tried all  seven colour filter options available to shift the roundel blue to be lighter than the Dk Green of the wing surface, but only 100% blue filter can do this.   It also creates more problems that don't match the photo -  yellow roundel is way too dark, and the tonal difference of the Dk Green and Dk Earth is all but gone.

 

 

regards,

Jack

[Troy Smith]

16 hours ago, al_the_drummer said:

as I've never, ever come across a Spit with no upper roundels,

Not what you are asking, but during/after the Munich crisis in 1938, you get example of overpainted upperwing roundels, sometimes with just one remaining.

I can't remember a specific Spitfire photo, I think I have seen an example,  there is this of a 3 Sq Hurricane

[VMA131Marine]

I think there’s no roundel on either upper wing.

 

You can clearly see the port wing roundel on this very washed out photograph and note that the blue in the fuselage roundel appears lighter than the red so I think the fin flash is the standard red, white, and blue from front to back as well.

 

[Black Knight]

38 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Not what you are asking, but during/after the Munich crisis in 1938, you get example of overpainted upperwing roundels, sometimes with just one remaining.

I can't remember a specific Spitfire photo, I think I have seen an example,  there is this of a 3 Sq Hurricane

 

[Black Knight]

1 hour ago, JackG said:

. . . 

For straight Panchromatic type film,  the fuselage roundel appears to match the photo's grey tones.   The tail marking would then indicate it leads with blue which is not official standard, but am certain this anomaly exists has been discussed before?

. . . 

If you can,  compare the order of the tonal difference of the fin flash on - O with - Q and - K

It appears that  - O has blue leading

[JackG]

A bit better photo clearly showing opposite coloured tail markings, and is not the fault of photography.  Dark (blue)forward on O coded frame, while that of K is light (red).

 

 

As for modelling the upper surfaces, I think adding roundels or not is an open choice.   For them to be missing must be just a specific moment in time and not have remained so for any length of time.   A squadron was grounded for less reason (wrong underside colour) during the summer of 1940, so I would think a lack of national markings is something that would be even more crucial?

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

[al_the_drummer]

I'm happy to have sparked such a lively and interesting debate. Thank you all for your contributions. As a little thanks, here's a WIP of the underside in its preshaded state...

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

 

It appears that the starboard wing roundels, or lack of them, have been 'ticked' with a left handed pencil at some point in the history of this photo. How intriguing...