Stencils in F-4J Vandy 1 (Black Bunny)

[Marcello Rosa]

Hi all

 

I am about to start building a Phantom which I intend to represent the VX-4 "Black Bunny" using the Furball decals.

I have a question about the technical stencils. These are spread all over the airframe (as in most Phantoms), but being white, I imagine that they will attract a lot of attention. In contrast, in many images of the plane the stencils appear either absent or subdued, for example:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Navy/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4S-Phantom-II/676819/L

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have a recommendation about how to deal with it? Did the white stencils appear after a specific point in time?

Or are they there but are actually grey, so they don't "stick out" as much?

My initial thought would be to apply them, but cover with a final layer of diluted glossy black to make them subtle. 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Marcello Rosa
Fixed spelling

[iainpeden]

Marcello. you have two airframes there; 5539 and 8358. I believe 3783 also served with VX-4 as a bunny .

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by iainpeden
checked info

[Marcello Rosa]

Thanks Ian. What intrigues me is that in both airframes the black finish does not seem to be interrupted by lots of white text. This made me wonder if the white stencils were not used in reality, or were in fact much more subtle than what you will get by using the decals.

There are lot of pictures of models of the Black Bunnies online, and in some of them here is a lot of white text everywhere, which I don't see in the pictures of the actual planes. I would rather not go through the trouble of placing nearly a hundred tiny decals, only to find out that this made the model less realistic.

[CT7567]

As noted above, there are two different airframes shown in your photos - and there were at least three "Black Bunny" Phantoms with VX-4 at different points in time.  Also note that the airframes shown above are both F-4S models, while the "original" Black Bunny was an F-4J.  I'm reasonably certain that by the time the S wore this scheme, they were no longer applying 100% of the factory stencils, but the earliesr (J) Bunny seems to have the full array.

 

There was a similar question asked not long ago over on ARC:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/319363-f-4j-vx-4-servicestencil-data

 

Make sure which subject you're trying to match and photos of that specific airframe (and point in time) should guide your decision.

[Marcello Rosa]

12 hours ago, CT7567 said:

As noted above, there are two different airframes shown in your photos - and there were at least three "Black Bunny" Phantoms with VX-4 at different points in time.  Also note that the airframes shown above are both F-4S models, while the "original" Black Bunny was an F-4J.  I'm reasonably certain that by the time the S wore this scheme, they were no longer applying 100% of the factory stencils, but the earliesr (J) Bunny seems to have the full array.

 

There was a similar question asked not long ago over on ARC:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/319363-f-4j-vx-4-servicestencil-data

 

Make sure which subject you're trying to match and photos of that specific airframe (and point in time) should guide your decision.

Thank you, very useful. It looks like since I am using the Furball decal set, which depicts a F-4J, I should apply the stencils. As also pointed out in the ARC thread it seems justified to try to make them a bit subdued I stead of bright white, as some weathering is expected.

[iainpeden]

I'd be tempted to put on a couple on the underside, see how they look and then make a decision on the rest.

[Marcello Rosa]

15 hours ago, iainpeden said:

I'd be tempted to put on a couple on the underside, see how they look and then make a decision on the rest.

Yes, that's the plan. Hopefully we will get to see the results in a few months (I am a slow builder...)

[SouthViper]

Long time ago I have build  the WHITE BUNNY F-4J.

The Decal instruction says that :

- only Insignias, Navy,  numbers, the White Bunny  logo, intake and caution markings were adorned on that real aircraft.

All that zillions data were painted over in white .

Also , the White Bunny used special gray colors for numbers, letters, walkway strips.

Sorry , I can not check the instructions here for FS numbers.

 

SouthViper from Brazil 

 

 

[Hook]

4 hours ago, SouthViper said:

WHITE BUNNY

Ironically, the Fujimi Black Bunny kit features additional markings for the White Bunny F-4J. 😎

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[SouthViper]

Thanks, 

I really didn't know about this Fujimi offer with White Bunny. 

The one I made was 1.48. 

 

SouthViper from Brazil 

 

[Planebuilder62]

Hi there

3783 is the Black Bunny in most kits and decal schemes and that has loads of white stencils on it. I guess the other 2 F-4S Phantoms did not get stencilled like the pictures above show.

Regards Toby

[Marcello Rosa]

Dear all

 

Thanks for the replies, which collectively make things much clearer for me. The decals I have are indeed for 3783, so it looks like the white stencils are justified, as can be seen in this photo:

 

I still think the decals appear too obvious in comparison, so will try to make them subtler with some kind of thinned paint layer, to be tested underneath first!

[CT7567]

10 hours ago, Marcello Rosa said:

I still think the decals appear too obvious in comparison, so will try to make them subtler with some kind of thinned paint layer, to be tested underneath first!

 

The issue here isn't a matter of the stencils being there or not, it's the scale translation.  It's impossible for even the highest printing resolutions to get true-to-scale text at a modeling scale for the smallest typefaces used on the 1:1 stencils.  Just look at BOLD text on whatever screen you're reading now, then imagine trying to print a line 1/48 or 1/72 of the thickness of each stroke width in that text and you can visualize the problem.

 

The best thing you can do to start is with stencils from a high quality source (where the small text is legible under magnification, not just lines of blob-like representations). If you don't have high resolution stencils available, you may want to be selective about which markings you use - applying the most prominent types only, and evenly distributing the markings you do use so it gives an impression of the "fully stenciled" airframe without a "white polka-dot" effect.

 

Past that point, I'm not sure a filter layer as you suggest will really give the results you're shooting for, so I would suggest a test on a surplus model before committing to anything you can't easily replace.

[Marcello Rosa]

Thanks again. the Furball decals seem to be like you describe (real text, when you look with a magnifier).

Since I have your attention, just another question where my research drew a blank. Do you (or anyone in this forum) know whether or not the VX-4 Phantoms kept the usual Navy insignia red interior for the underwing speed brakes and their wells? I can only find photos of models, and these can be white for both surfaces, red on both surfaces, or red on the inner brake and white for in well...

[CT7567]

Best suggestion I can make is to look for photos of either 153783 or other contemporary VX-4 F-4Js to see if you can spot the well doors - on the Vandy birds it's tougher than usual since the black belly isn't providing any reflected light to brighten the shaded area.

 

Assuming you can't find anything definitive, the up-side is that it's highly unlikely anyone will be able to say for sure that it's wrong 😄

 

You may already have picked this up, but since you're doing 153783 it's worth noting that she wore a couple of different versions of the bunny and the airframe received some upgrades (ergo depot maintenance) at some that seem to correspond with "early" and "late" schemes.  Your photo above shows the "derp bunny" version, distorted rabbit and early airframe.  For comparison, photo in this link shows a later date with the official logo and DECM antennae on the intake shoulders.

[Marcello Rosa]

Thank you once again. From the pictures I found, it looks like white well and red brakes are the way to go.

BTW, the decal set I got is for the "deep bunny", from the shape of the rabbit head. Meaning no need to include the AN/ALQ-126 antennae on the intakes.

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/furball-aero-design-48-061-black-bunny--1082892

 

[iainpeden]

@Marcello Rosa

As for the air brakes, my guess would be white wells and red inner doors. It's clear from @CT7567 link that the inner faces of the ailerons are red but that the u/c doors don't have the red edges.

 

You may find this post useful with regard to how the decals look, but most interesting for me is the photo of the 2 Black Bunnies side by side (post of Jan 7/21)

 

 https://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/10150-tamiya-f-4j-vx-4-„black-bunny“/

 

 

[Marcello Rosa]

On 20/05/2022 at 18:40, iainpeden said:

@Marcello Rosa

As for the air brakes, my guess would be white wells and red inner doors. It's clear from @CT7567 link that the inner faces of the ailerons are red but that the u/c doors don't have the red edges.

 

You may find this post useful with regard to how the decals look, but most interesting for me is the photo of the 2 Black Bunnies side by side (post of Jan 7/21)

 

 https://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/10150-tamiya-f-4j-vx-4-„black-bunny“/

 

 

Thanks for the link. It is a superb model. But all those stencils! There is white writing even on top the "star and stripes"! Phantoms must have been the peak of the stencil madness.

[iainpeden]

@Ben Hartmann and I have been kicking around the identities of the VX-4 Black Bunnies - between us we have identified four different a/c.

 

153783 went to the RAF

155539 went to AMARC ‘86

158358 currently at Pima

158360 

 

Any further info always welcome.

[Marcello Rosa]

And here is another question you could only get asked in this forum.

 

I am well advanced in my F-4J. One thing I noticed in the references is that all the CAUTIONs are not white, but yellow, and WARNINGs red. The Furball decals have these words white, but I managed to fix this with application of floor polish tinted with clear acrylics.

 

but this made me wonder about the proper colour of the NO STEP and NO PUSH stencils on top of the wings. I could not find any pictures showing the top of the wing of 3783. Would anyone know whether these were likely to be white (as they currently stand).

 

[Planebuilder62]

Hi Marcello

Have you had a look at the new Phantom stencil decals and very detailed instructions from Jennings Helig/Fundekals? The answer might be found there.

 

Regards Toby

[Marcello Rosa]

9 hours ago, Planebuilder62 said:

Hi Marcello

Have you had a look at the new Phantom stencil decals and very detailed instructions from Jennings Helig/Fundekals? The answer might be found there.

 

Regards Toby

Thank you for the reference, but alas, no mention to Vandy 1. This was an experimental all black camouflage which ended up not being widely used, but became iconic on its own right. Given the black background, I think VX-4 had to apply corresponding stencils in light colours. But I have reached out to the people at Funkdecals in the hope that they will have come across some documentation.

[Marcello Rosa]

16 hours ago, Planebuilder62 said:

Hi Marcello

Have you had a look at the new Phantom stencil decals and very detailed instructions from Jennings Helig/Fundekals? The answer might be found there.

 

Regards Toby

BTW I received a reply from Jennings at Funkdecals, and they don't have any information about the stencils I Black Bunny...

[iainpeden]

8 hours ago, Marcello Rosa said:

Thank you for the reference, but alas, no mention to Vandy 1. This was an experimental all black camouflage which ended up not being widely used, but became iconic on its own right. Given the black background, I think VX-4 had to apply corresponding stencils in light colours. But I have reached out to the people at Funkdecals in the hope that they will have come across some documentation.

Interesting thought that it was an experimental camouflage scheme, especially as the RAF went black with their trainers to increase visibility. I'd always assumed it was to show VX-4 were special.

 

Mind you, the idea does bring some interesting potential colour schemes to mind - VF-74 in black with red markings for instance, VF-84 and the Jolly Roger in white ......... hmmm.

[Lusitanian]

I think the black color was not intended as camouflage, only as a wink to Playboy. Remember at the same time period Hugh Hefner travelled in a DC-9 painted black which had also a ‘bunny’ on the tail.

 

Best wishes,

 

Lusitanian