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Loyd Carrier MkII TTMG 'Praying Mantis' MkIII (Bronco 1/35) - What if


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This has been bubbling in my mind for sometime. While it was never built and often mocked when I saw the footage of this little beast with a sting I actually thought it could work. So instead of using a Carrier I thought about the Loyd carrier which would be a little more stable and purposeful with the additional weight of the elevating unit. They would have been used in the European theatre in particular in the early stages, D-Day etc. They would have been part of the 79th and one of the 'Funnies'.

 

Since this is very much a what if I have free reign which is cool and there will be a lot of scratch building. The Bronco model will be pretty much only the chassis and engine. There are three main points which will need some grey matter:

 

1. The gun and gunner arrangement.  I'm erring on having an all in one 'turret' so that the gunner can aim easily otherwise there would need to be a separate aiming sight contraption which would be very complicated and get in the way of the gun and be difficult for the gunner to follow when he is laying down.

2. Armour. These would have primarily been for infantry support so machine guns would be the sensible choice. But there is a choice.

a) Twin Brens - Most obvious, light weight, common ammo. But would need frequent re loading

b) Twin Vickers - Bit heavy and slow firing rate but 200+ round belts. Ideal for covering fire but not so for 'shoot and run'

c) Twin Brownings - As in the Spitfire. Very high rate of fire and proven in remote enclosed operation. 

d) Single Hispano Cannon - As in the Spitfire. Probably not practical and would have a bit of a recoil and by the looks of pictures they are over 2m long!!. But would be good against softskins and light armour.

e) Single Hispano Cannon plus one of the above machine guns. Best (Or probably worst) of both worlds giving options just like they did in the Spitfire :)

3. Where to put the driver. The original had gunner and driver in the 'neck'. I'm thinking of keeping the driver on the chassis in an armoured cabin. This makes more sense since one of the main issues with the original is 'sea sickness' while in the neck.

 

The naming of this is 'Loyd Carrier MkII' (The base vehicle) 'TTMG' (Tracked Tactical Machine Gun) 'Praying Mantis MkIII' (There were 2 prototypes so this is the 3rd version)

 

 

2022-05-03_05-10-20

 

Really good video by the excellent Armoured Achives

 

The full video of all the original footage of trials. If you watch it you really start to see the possibilities of this thing. It's lower than a crouching man and can hide in long grass but also fire over the top of small buildings!

 

This should be fun 🤡

 

Andrew

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  • APA changed the title to Loyd Carrier MkII TTMG 'Praying Mantis' MkIII (Bronco 1/35) - What if
21 minutes ago, Model Mate said:

ohh.... fantastic "whiffer"; or maybe not - "realer"(?). I sense some scratchbuilding in your near future......

I think there was some subliminal pavlovian influence on your behalf 😉

 

Andrew

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12 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Interesting Subject - looking forwards to this - The kit is a nice one 

Rob

Me to Rob. Have you built this? I've never done a bronco before. 

 

Andrew 

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I have Andrew - there is a WIP and an RFI but the pics were with Village Photos which has gone kaput.  When I find some time I'll dig them out from an old drive.

Here are the 2 pics I've got 

 

DSCF8653_edited-1

 

DSCF8660

 

It's very detailed and some of the etch is a bit fiddly but it builds up very nicely.  I'm surprised that more haven't been built.

Rob

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And we're off!

 

This is the first Bronco i've built so I'm excited to see how it is. I am always a bit nervous when trying a manufacturer for the first time.

 

So far so good, they're spoiling me with glossy prints and a cardboard cutting board. Neither if which I have any use for but the thought was there 😁👍🏻

20220514_105524

 

Instructions are pretty good, well laid out and I haven't found any mistakes yet.

20220514_105600

 

Plenty of sprues but unlike some manufacturers the logic is excellent. The majority of sections are on one or two sprues. A,C and D is all I've used to build the bse chassis. Well done Bronco.

20220514_105846

 

Plastic is softish and the moulding is very good with zero flash and very little seam lines. Think complicated Tamya. Even the colour is similar.

20220514_105942

 

Plenty of accessories to play with if you want.

20220514_110059

 

I have to say the tarp is fantastic. If you look the side panels even have holes for threading tie-down rope. Well done Bronco again.

20220514_110437

 

Another nice touch. A set of bolt heads. This kit just keeps on giving.

20220514_110730

 

Phew! That was a lot of parts but we got there.

20220514_153836

 

20220514_153848

 

You have a choice of wheels. I had a google search and couldn't find any of the round hole versions in any pics. I was starting to worry which to use then I remembered this is a What If. I can do what I damn well like........ so I did 😁

20220514_120516

 

I thought the round holed versions looked a bit more in keeping with the vehicle. (Don't ask me why!) Also some one is going to say that these are the very early versions that were discontinued after the first 50 odd built 🙄

20220514_133947

 

That is one mean and impressive engine!! I am soooooo tempted to leave the covers open for this.

20220515_151806

 

20220515_151820

 

Thats as far as I dare go with the base build. Time to start working out the drivers compartment, the Neck and fixing etc. I'm going to call the rising fighting compartment the neck from now on.

20220515_151741

 

 

This is a cracking kit. It's complicated and it has a few traps to watch out for. There are quite a few sections which are over complicated and it's not until your further down the road that you realise they are a fundamental part of the build so if they are just a little out it can be a pain but not as bad as the Gecko's. Keeps you focused if nothing else. It really does remind me of a Tamya but more complicated.

 

Cheers all

 

Andrew

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  • 2 weeks later...

A bit more done today

 

That lovely engine is now hidden under the covers. I was contemplating leaving the sides open but that would interfear with the neck operation and would detract from the main build. That cover was a lot fiddleyer than it looks.

20220528_174310

 

Fuel tanks relocated and placed sideways and front storage box relocated internally as well.

20220528_174253

 

Very rough Neck constructed just to get a feel for the thing. Also the drivers cabin

At rest position.

20220528_174153

 

Over a wall position

20220528_174214

 

Over a barn position.

20220528_174242

 

Hopefully more tomorrow.

 

Andrew

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Th real scratching has begun. 0.5mm styrene card for all so far. I may use 0.3mm for finer details.

 

Firstly some workings out.

 

Working out the angles that the head can elevate. I'm going for a 60deg maximum elevation of the neck with a maximum depresion of -10deg for the head giving a total travel of 70deg. The tricky bit is how to incorporate a cover across that range. Solution is further down.

20220602_164109

 

At the bottom is the final drawing of the neck at rest and the drivers cabin. The neck will sit on a bar across the main body while in transport. I've still to work out the point where the neck will stop to avoid the drivers cabin. Top right are sketches for the machine gun housing with various door configurations. I've gone for the top right corner design as that will give quick access for reloading through the large rear door and the small forward door for removal and maintenance. Top left is the solution for covering the gaps when the head is elevated / depressed. There will be no room for a curved inner mantel I've gone for sliding plates fixed by hinges on the head and sliding along guides on the neck.

20220602_170240

 

Template for the neck sides traced onto some 40gsm paper left over from the motor racing mags on the Bedford MWD 😉

I punched each intersection onto the card then joined the dots 😁

20220602_164029

 

 

I bought one of these for a couple of quid on ebay. Well worth it! The step is only a millimeter or so and is perfect for getting a square cut. Thanks to @matti64 for the tip off 👍🏻

20220602_164309

 

 

So here's the results so far. Left is the head which will be semicircular with two Besa MG's with shrouds. Then in the centre the neck with scribed top access doors, side panels and inner legs and lower panel. Then on the right is the drivers cab.

20220602_174924

 

 

This is good fun, thanks @Model Mate for the inspiration 😎👍🏻 I'll do some bracing sections for the inside next and start thinking about the vision ports. I've ordered some 123 blocks to help keep everything square while gluing. One of the things I'm enjoying about this is that I have to start thinking like an armour designer. Hours of fun 🤡

 

Cheers all

 

Andrew

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Happy to oblige, though I’m not sure quite how I did…..

This is looking really interesting now, and that’s some very neat work so far.
What’s the protractor/tee square thingy called? It looks like a very useful tool.

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1 hour ago, Model Mate said:

What’s the protractor/tee square thingy called? It looks like a very useful tool.

 

On Amazon search for "square head protractor" or "round head protractor" or simply "protractor" and you should find numerous examples. Inexpensive to expensive for Starrett or Mitutoyo examples.

 

And yes, very useful.

 

cheers, Graham

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Model Mate said:

Happy to oblige, though I’m not sure quite how I did…..

This is looking really interesting now, and that’s some very neat work so far.
What’s the protractor/tee square thingy called? It looks like a very useful tool.

"

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Posted April 26

  On 4/25/2022 at 5:50 PM, APA said:

The stuff you chuck in the bin is better than anything I'll ever make 

 

Andrew

Haha! Thanks Andrew, but trust me, the bit I threw out just wasn’t fit for purpose. One of the joys of scratchbuilding is that if it goes wrong; bin it. No great loss, and most stuff can be remade pretty quickly. If I screw up a kit part (which happens quite often) I’m really stuck and dismayed, but when a scratch bit goes awry, you know there’s a 99% chance you’ll make it better second time around, and all it’s cost is 20sq cm of polystyrene and an hour or so.

Your stuff is excellent; I’m loving the Bedford. There’s a really a refreshing mindset that comes with scratchbuilding - I’d highly recommend you give it a go; you clearly have the skills.

"

From your Mk1 build 😁

 

and @ColonelKrypton beat me to it on the protractor 😁

 

Andrew

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just in case anyone was wondering why I'm not cracking on with this we're doing a bit of 1:1 scale domestic scratch building so all the green things have taken over in the man cave 😜😳🙄

 

20220612_105539

 

 

Anyone got a machete? 😉

 

Andrew 

 

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19 hours ago, Model Mate said:

That’s some very realistic diorama vegetation you’ve got there - well done!

 

Thanks MM, so good I can't find the bleedin' model 🙄🤓

 

18 hours ago, Cerberus said:

 I had no idea that ironing boards and gravy boats were essential modelling tools... ;) 

 

Ironing board will make an excellent diorama base and the gravy boat is perfect for mixing paints and pouring into the airbrush 😎

 

4 hours ago, Redcoat2966 said:

Interesting build I must say, with some very nice scratch building. Enjoyable to follow along........:yes:

 

 

Thanks RedCoat. Glad your interested. Hopefully back on it in a week or two 🙄

 

Andrew

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36 minutes ago, Lummox said:

 

You may find this chap in there when you come to clear it Andrew 🙂

soldier.jpg

That's the guy who held out until the 70s still fighting ww2 isn't? Amazing story! 

Yes I'll leave some talc on the carpet to catch any trails 😉

 

Andrew 

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