IJA Red Brown?

Evil_Toast_RSA · May 2, 2022

Got one or two IJA planes lurking in my stash, and to break up the green/green/NMF/green that seems to be the typical late war schemes they used, seen a few finished in a red brown colour on the upper surfaces.

Is there a match for this in the Mr Color/Tamiya/Vallejo range? Or is there a mix to try get close to it?

Bozothenutter · May 2, 2022

Paging Mr.Millman, Mr.Millman are you free?

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/?m=1

Graham Boak · May 2, 2022

Possibly an exaggeration of the khaki colour seen on late war fighters? Where did you see this - other models, profiles, or is a respectable source? Which types, and based where? There was a reddish-brown colour seen early in the war, in multi-colour schemes, but its later use seems to have been rare.

e8n2 · May 3, 2022

13 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Possibly an exaggeration of the khaki colour seen on late war fighters? Where did you see this - other models, profiles, or is a respectable source? Which types, and based where? There was a reddish-brown colour seen early in the war, in multi-colour schemes, but its later use seems to have been rare.

I have a Hasegawa kit of a Ki-109 Peggy experimental heavy fighter IIRC, based on a previous bomber. The box top painting shows it being a bit of a reddish brown, and it was definitely of the late war variety. I bought it about four to six years ago. Still in the stash. Maybe one of these days...

Later,

Dave

P.S. Just found it on ScaleMates

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-02052-mitsubishi-ki109-experimental-interceptor-107th-flight-regiment--241277

Not so much reddish brown, but it looks to be mostly the cowling brown color.

Edited May 3, 2022 by e8n2
Found picture of kit box top

Graham Boak · May 3, 2022

Interesting one: looks like a grey on my monitor which brings memories of torpedo-bomber Peggys in either grey or blue-grey, but not fighters. Just how accurate such reports may have been is a matter I'm not qualified to rule on. As only an experimental aircraft, this could be some kind of primer - but such was rare at this stage.

Evil_Toast_RSA · May 3, 2022

I think using "Red Brown" in my question was erroneous on my part, lets go with a colour that is definitely not green at all and has definite brown notes (with a possible hint of red too)! 🤔

Like this decal sheet:

A darker brown?

This Nick?

As for actual pictures, all I can find is pieces of a Ki-45 in a museum somewhere and a G4M Betty wreck with what looks like brown paint still on it. Everything else is B&W or looks like they were taken on the surface of the sun.

Black Knight · May 3, 2022

For more reddish brown try Vallejo 'Mahogany Brown' 846

https://www.emodels.co.uk/vlj139-846-jpg.html

Toryu · May 3, 2022

Please note - there were three different brown colours in use with the JAAF (source: Aviation of Japan)

(1) The early war camouflage applied in conjunction with different hues of green (e.g. Ki-27, Ki-43)

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2008/03/colours-of-97-sen-part-7.html

(2) The late war green-brown from autumn 1944 onwards (e.g. Ki-45, Ki-46, Ki-84, Ki-100)

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2019/12/kawasaki-ki-100-colours.html

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2011/03/more-about-jaaf-7-ohryoku-nana-go-shoku.html

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2013/11/hayate-thoughts.html

(3) The dark brown colour used for prop blades

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2019/12/army-prop-and-spinner-colours.html

I guess what you're looking for is colour (2).

Cheers, Michael

Graham Boak · May 3, 2022

I believe that your colour 2) is what i was referring to above as a khaki. I did understand that Nick Millman had worked with Jamie Dodd to add this to the Colourcoats range. I used it on a Pavla Nakajima K.87 but considered it an olive green, but definitely a "green" not a brown. So either this is yet another colour, or perhaps it existed unsurprisingly, given the times) in a range of colour variants?

Toryu · May 3, 2022

@Graham Boak I don‘t think these are different colours, Graham, just different descriptions as olive-brown, khaki, olive green etc. When you read Nick‘s articles you will see the variations in hue depending on perspective.

Graham Boak · May 3, 2022

There's a world of difference between the colour available, even in a browner version, and the red-brown seen on these profiles.

Fukuryu · May 3, 2022

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

There's a world of difference between the colour available, even in a browner version, and the red-brown seen on these profiles.

But the source for those profiles is not determined AFAIK. For the Ki-84 of 57 Shimbutai the only known source is some period pictures from a newspaper IIRC, so the colour assigned is just one of many possibilities. Personally, I'd bet on #7 a.k.a "Ohryoku nana-go shoku" olive drab, which can look very brown given the right circumstances.

Evil_Toast_RSA · May 4, 2022

10 hours ago, Fukuryu said:

Personally, I'd bet on #7 a.k.a "Ohryoku nana-go shoku" olive drab, which can look very brown given the right circumstances.

Would that be this colour by any small chance?

For reference, this is the G4M I mentioned earlier, on Yap Island IIRC. Hopefully someone more experienced can tell me if that's the paint, corrosion or bird poop stains 🤪.

Toryu · May 4, 2022

First picture: Yes, that‘s the colour.

Second picture: This G4M has weathered down to the IJN (!) reddish primer. It is a Navy aeroplane, and they used absolutely different camo colours - no reference for what you want to build.

You really may want to consult Nick Millman‘s Aviation of Japan website.

Fukuryu · May 4, 2022

100% what Michael @Toryu said.

@Evil_Toast_RSA, sorry if you already knew this, but It may be worth mentioning that during WWII Japan (as well as many other countries) had two separate Air Forces, one for the Army and one for the Navy, that used separate paint standards until almost the end.