Supermarine Seafire FR.47; Special Hobby 1/72 - FINISHED

[Planebuilder62]

Dear NG

I am building one of these at the moment but seeing Village Photo’s does not work anymore I do not have any pictures.

A couple of new things I have found is :

1. The exhaust pipes are too wide for the slots on the fuselage

2. The top end of the undercarriage legs are different lebgths and are a wobbly fit. I made a jig to get the legs glued in at the right lengths and keeping the wings level. It looks a lot like the one I made for my Seafang build earler this year here in the WIP section.

regards Toby

[Ngantek]

Not much progress again, life continues to impolitely butt in, and I have only occasionally continued my ill-fated battle against seam lines. I think my understanding of the shrink rate and time of Mr surfacer 500 needed some reevaluation.

 

However, I did manage a couple of hours this evening. The prop blades got tidied (the shape seems a bit off to me), the spinner had a bit of work, and I finally got around to the exhausts. Thanks for the heads up @Planebuilder62, you were quite right, they needed a reasonable amount to of work to fit. I drilled them out in any case. The casts were actually pretty misaligned on that piece, so it's still not great but I'm not sure I have much more botheredishness to spend on that one.

The spinners got a few unenthusiastic swipes with a sanding stick, but really I'm just in denial about the amount of sanding and probably filling that they're going to need. After which no doubt they'll no longer fit the forebody. Ah well. For another day.

 

What else... ah the cannon mounts needed drilling out and of course all that did was pop the blimming leading edge open, so that's under repair. Wingtip lights were fettled and stuck in with PVA, which is frankly a miracle given how tiny they are. I can't decide whether they're safer there or lost in a box somewhere... but I they'll probably have to come out again to paint behind them. 

 

Half of the centreline tank seems to be missing, which is a shame but I suppose also saves me a job..

 

So a bit more work on the canopy, spinner and stores and I think we'll finally put some paint down. 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[Chuuurles]

Glad to see you back in action, from what I can see in the photo it look’s pretty good to me! 

[Procopius]

That upper cowl looks smooth and caressable. 

[Ngantek]

7 hours ago, Chuuurles said:

Glad to see you back in action, from what I can see in the photo it look’s pretty good to me! 

Thanks. Special hobby have rather nicely moulded the fuel tank cover as a raised step rather than a panel line (incidentally, I've always wondered why panel lines are so ubiquitous when often they're replicating an overlapping plate or step; but that's a discussion for another day). However since I'd obliterated most of the detail there, it turns out it's rather harder to reinstate the step compared to just rescribing. Perhaps I just answered my own question!

 

7 hours ago, Procopius said:

That upper cowl looks smooth and caressable. 

Thanks, also not shown, the maddeningly persistent seam just forward of the cockpit, tactically out of shot.

[AliGauld]

Very nicely done so far.

 

4 hours ago, Ngantek said:

tactically out of shot.

Ah the act of a modeller after my own heart. You choose the angles of the photo and all looks good. 

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[Ngantek]

Since the moment is (very slowly) approaching, I've been debating how to finish this one. The Korean War aircraft clearly got some use, but the pictures I can find look somewhat worn, but no obvious signs of 'spitfire chip' that I can make out. I can't really decide therefore, whether this would be a good first foray into chipping. I have a no doubt entirely self created impression that FAA fitters were necessarily more protective of their aircraft finish, but I suspect that's all hokum.

 

At some point I was planning to make a clean factory fresh build, since I tend to achieve an entirely unintentional weathered look simply through the accumulation of various muppetries. But with a sea vixen and various 30s racers to practice gloss on, perhaps again this isn't the best one for that either... 

[Dave Wilko]

You suspect wrongly Sir, FAA machines were indeed kept clean,tidy and any paint damage repaired quickly.

Salt air reacts quickly with aluminium aeroplanes.

 

Dave.

[bigbadbadge]

Looks good and exhaust work has paid off.  

Great job 

Chris

[Ngantek]

1 hour ago, Dave Wilko said:

You suspect wrongly Sir, FAA machines were indeed kept clean,tidy and any paint damage repaired quickly.

Salt air reacts quickly with aluminium aeroplanes.

 

Dave.

Ahh good! It's sometimes hard to remember what is fact and what is my innate navy bias! Perhaps some post shading or even brush painting of darker shades over the traditional chipping areas to simulate overpainting would be appropriate?

 

How about this kind of classic 'museum chip' best illustrated by this (xvii?)?

 

2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Looks good and exhaust work has paid off.  

Great job 

Chris

Thanks, a bit rough but I'm happy enough to leave as is. Will need some repainting and extra shades of course. I didn't have the cohones to go up another drill size.

[Dave Wilko]

1 hour ago, Ngantek said:

chipping areas to simulate overpainting would be appropriate?

An excellent idea Sir,slightly darker would suggest fresh paint.

[Procopius]

17 hours ago, Ngantek said:

I have a no doubt entirely self created impression that FAA fitters were necessarily more protective of their aircraft finish, but I suspect that's all hokum.

 

 

 

Not necessarily so! During Suez, an RN fitter mentioned that while they had taken immense pride in getting their aircraft looking nice and marked with properly demarcated strips in the correct colours, the RAF ran out of yellow and made its own, and the French didn't even bother making the stripes the correct width. So there's some evidence to support this. And I'm sure you've seen this, but this 800 Squadron Seafire 47 taking off from HMS Triumph in July of 1950, Korea-bound, looks to be in decent shape.

 

 

[Johnson]

A lovely photo of the Seafire taking off with RATOGS on the wings. Note also the NM ailerons (replacements?).

 

They didn’t remain on carrier ops in Korea for long as their airframes suffered wrinkling from the strain on deck landings and their role was taken over by Sea Furys.

[Ngantek]

7 hours ago, Procopius said:

And I'm sure you've seen this, but this 800 Squadron Seafire 47 taking off from HMS Triumph in July of 1950, Korea-bound, looks to be in decent shape.

I had but thanks for posting, that's a better quality picture than I'd found. I was struggling with that one mostly because I'm not that sure I can tell what is dust/film grain and what is genuine marking on the aircraft. But certainly this better version of the photo it looks a much cleaner aircraft than I had thought originally. Thanks for posting!

6 hours ago, Johnson said:

Note also the NM ailerons (replacements?).

I'd never noticed this before (which explains a lot about my lack of attention to detail), but now you point it out, I can see the SH kit does indeed call this out in the paint chart. The airfix reissue, which has markings for the same aircraft, does not however. Thanks for pointing it out, I wouldve blown straight past it.

[Ngantek]

Been itching to get on with this one (or just do any modelling at all frankly) but again only the odd stolen 15 minute coffee break to sand down a seam and whatnot. Bit of progress this evening; I resolved to tidy up the issues that really needed doing before paint; that is spinner fit, canopy tidying. And then totally breaking my plan to get all the extras ready, I decided to start prepping for paint. But first, one outstanding issue:
 

The ram intake is.. well.. not that good. Let me present exhibit A.

The rubbishness is entirely the kit and nothing at all to do with the fact that I put it on skew whiff. Not at all.

 

Anyway, I thought I'd be okay with it at the start, but in the process of sanding down the spinner, I couldn't help but notice it more and more. Then I made the mistake of looking at the plethora of really accomplished builds of this kit on these forums (they're all amazing by the way. Like all of them. Not one duffer that I can secretly tell myself 'oh there's a random obsure nitpick that I can do better myself!'). Well as far as I can see, pretty much all of them sensibly cut out the  intake to give a better look. This would've been a great idea before I glued the thing on, but it's a bit late for that now. So anyone have an idea how to have at this? I could dremel it out somehow perhaps, but what tool to use? A fine glass etching head perhaps? The old school method might be to chain drill a 'smiley face' and then very slowly and carefully open it up with needle files and folded sand paper. Aiyee. That one probably needs deciding upon before I hit the thing with Sky.

 

The spinner got some work. Of course the one time when I obliterate the seams first time is the time that I actually want to keep them. I tried reinstating them by wiping a bit of MLT along the join, but really it was just taking the filler off everywhere but the seam. I'll have to rescribe I guess or I could just leave the back plate hidden. Still needs a once over with some finer grit says the primer.

 

In true 'hi tech' kit fashion, the instructions ask you to lop off lots of plastic to put on some equally dodgy (at least when I've bent them) photo etch for the wheels.

Oh bugger you camera, always show up a truckload of dodgy gate cleanups and unnoticed mould lines.

Anyway the PE took me blimming ages, not because the PE was fiddly (though it was!) but because I fell down a 'I know exactly nothing about the subject, but the instructions are clearly wrong' wormhole. In this case, the Oleo torque arms are called out as extending aft of the legs. At first that seemed right, but when I queried myself as to why, it turned out it's because it feels more like a human ankle that way... 'You is talking the rubbish, lizard brain!'. Anyway looking at some walkarounds, it turns out spits have the torque links pointing forwards. Was it a seafire thing then, what with the L.III having different angle legs to the Vc? No, the Seafire XVII clearly has them pointing forwards too. What about the Airfix kit... yep backwards. Did SH copy a mistake made by Airfix?? Cue 30 mins searching all sources for FR47 pics, none of which were either detailed enough or correctly angled to see for sure. Turns out (eventually found on some obscure internet forum post from the era of steam powered dial up) that the FR47 shares the Mk.24 wheels, which have the links pointing backwards. Aiyee. Yeah just shut up trust the dude who made the kit, son, and stop being so impertinent. The reality is, that I will never notice this detail ever again, backwards or forwards. Anyone wonder why it takes me 4 months to make a kit?

 

Okay so next bit. I'd already primed in an ungodly mixture of grey tamiya fine and grey Mr surfacer 1500. Not gunking the detail is a big point of emphasis on this build for me, so despite wanting to experiment with new techniques, I'm not really up for adding another layer of black to have a mess with black basing. So instead I thought I'd try the opposite approach and have a go at the technique-that-must-not-be-named. Now disclaimer, I really really don't like the preshade panel line look. No shots intended, everyone has their own aesthetic feel for these things, I just don't personally like it. But entirely as an experiment, and somewhat to further despair at my embryonic airbrushing skills, I had a hack at just shading randomly. The idea was to add scratchy things, wear and dirt in the obvious places and try not to get too uniform with the Characteristic Goop Size(TM) (mix of thin scrapes, wide splotches etc). Now the stuff on the wing will disappear immediately that the EDSG bottle enters the same room as the model, so I'm not really expecting any of this to survive the paint, it's more a practice to get a feel of building up semi-opaque layers. So yeah further final disclaimer, this is all random spraying and no way intended to replicate er... something good. Okay I said it.

 

 

yeah sorry about that.

 

Anyway it's light enough that I will be able (indeed struggle not to) remove the effect pretty quickly, it's just a practice for me.

 

'What's that alclad bottle? Don't you be going there!' I hear you say. Yeah well, nah.

 

So yeah I said I wasn't going to chip because, as we've seen, these aircraft were actually pretty pristine. But again I want the practice. The plan is the teeeeensiest bit of chipping around the canopy and perhaps on a wing root seam or ammo panel, just to add visual interest. Mostly I just sprayed it everywhere with my grandmother's voice ringing in my ear ('EH! Andy ah! Never know where you might need to chip!'). Basically I don't want to accidently hit plastic. Particularly if I overchip. It's going to happen, let's be honest. I gave the alclad a waffer-theeen mint layer of aqua gloss, and decided that I should probably leave it there, rather than risk an ungodly amalgam of liquid chipping solution, varnish and paint.

 

So, finishing off by brewing some delicious mixtures ready for when I next get to continue my infernal progress in, no doubt, 5 months time. See you then you poor fools! 😝

 

 

 

 

 

[Learstang]

Nice work! See, at this point I would put my model aside for some proper ageing, like a fine wine. At least that's what I tell myself with a modelling room full of nearly-finished models.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[Johnson]

Great post, most amusing (it was supposed to brighten my morning wasn't it?)

[Robin-42]

The intake is actually easier to drill out in place. Just drill small holes in the corners and work your way to the middle, then a #11 Xacto blade or equivalent and carve out to join the holes. Don’t try to join the holes with the drill, it will just jump sideways. Dremel is quicker, but you need a steady hand. 

[Ngantek]

14 hours ago, Learstang said:

Nice work! See, at this point I would put my model aside for some proper ageing, like a fine wine. At least that's what I tell myself with a modelling room full of nearly-finished models.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Yes I'm aware that its a distinct possibility. So far in my relatively short modelling career, it's not yet progressed from box- to shelf-of-shame, but there's so much shiny stuff in the stash, I don't imagine it'll take much of a screw up to be relegated there! Ageing like a fine wine is exactly the right way to look at at!

 

6 hours ago, Johnson said:

Great post, most amusing (it was supposed to brighten my morning wasn't it?)

Thanks, it of course had nothing at all to do with avoiding going to bed at a reasonable hour!

 

1 hour ago, Robin-42 said:

The intake is actually easier to drill out in place. Just drill small holes in the corners and work your way to the middle, then a #11 Xacto blade or equivalent and carve out to join the holes. Don’t try to join the holes with the drill, it will just jump sideways. Dremel is quicker, but you need a steady hand. 

Thank you, you embolden me to have a go this evening if I get a spare minute. I've chain drilled lots of this kind of thing in the past (though usually pretty roughly), whereas I'm a relatively new and very wobbly hand with a dremel (at least for this kind of job), so I think on balance I'll go with your suggestion. Maybe I'll have at a paint mule with the dremel to get an idea of how it behaves.

 

I noticed in my not-working working, a nice picture of HMS Triumph before her deployment to Korea.

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/Article_Forgotten_Cruise.htm?cmtx_sort=2#.YqCp2hrMJPY

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/Images_main/HMS_Triumph_1950.jpg

(bugger can't get the image link to resolve)

Notice a couple of 47s have the low demarcation EDSG/Sky scheme, which is very nice. Is the near one arranged on the port side bow perhaps VP427 or VP429? (cross referencing these numbers). It seems to carry the marking 180(?) as well so presumably it got written off or transferred before VP480 assumed that number. I'm sure I ran across a discussion on here about which and indeed whether any 47s carried this scheme beyond the prototype, and these would appear to be examples. I'm sure I've seen pictures of a squadron flying those colours in the 'fleet air arm legends #1' magazine-y thing, and the grand phoenix reboxing of Airfix's 1/48 also has markings for VP483 (marked 139) in that scheme. It's nice. Probably not on this one but perhaps if I get around to the airfix, I might do that.

 

 

[Learstang]

So, some of the FR.47s might have had the low demarcation line in Korea? If so, I'd like to do one of my FR.47 kits like this (a SH kit, and an ancient, but accurate Ventura kit).

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[Ngantek]

50 minutes ago, Learstang said:

So, some of the FR.47s might have had the low demarcation line in Korea? If so, I'd like to do one of my FR.47 kits like this (a SH kit, and an ancient, but accurate Ventura kit).

 

Regards,

 

Jason

I wouldn't want to comment! What I know about FAA schemes wouldn't fit on the back of a fag packet. The caption (if it is to be trusted) suggests this was 3 or 4 month before the first Korean War sorties, so there's a fair amount of time for reshuffling/repainting/accidents. 

If I were to be made to guess at gunpoint, I'd suspect no, but it also wouldn't stop me from painting one in a speculative scheme if it looked nice!

 

Cheers,

Andy

[Robin-42]

2 hours ago, Ngantek said:

Yes I'm aware that its a distinct possibility. So far in my relatively short modelling career, it's not yet progressed from box- to shelf-of-shame, but there's so much shiny stuff in the stash, I don't imagine it'll take much of a screw up to be relegated there! Ageing like a fine wine is exactly the right way to look at at!

 

Thanks, it of course had nothing at all to do with avoiding going to bed at a reasonable hour!

 

Thank you, you embolden me to have a go this evening if I get a spare minute. I've chain drilled lots of this kind of thing in the past (though usually pretty roughly), whereas I'm a relatively new and very wobbly hand with a dremel (at least for this kind of job), so I think on balance I'll go with your suggestion. Maybe I'll have at a paint mule with the dremel to get an idea of how it behaves.

The Dremal will heat and melt the plastic pretty quick. Don’t keep it in one place too long. Don’t ask me how I know that.😉 Also you don’t need a very coarse bit. I use some cheap diamond bits of various shapes mostly now. 

2 hours ago, Ngantek said:

 

 

 

[Ngantek]

Well not much time this evening, but did have a hack at that intake. Thanks @Robin-42 for your help! The smallest drill bit that I own is 0.5mm (which frankly is already too small for me to be trusted with), so that left a fair amount of hacking to do around the 'cheeks'. I've shown the rather rough process in case it's helpful to another beginner with equally low opinion of their ability to have a go at this kind of surgery! I got a bit lucky in that my poor installation of the part left me a little bit of material to remove (marked in pencil) and therefore some leeway.

I had a few stabs with a needle file, but I ended up getting the most progress (as is becoming a theme in this build) out of a trusty 10a blade (or 11 if you have one) rather than abrasives. I ran out of time really, having a long early commute tomorrow, but it will benefit from a little more work and tidying when I next get the chance. The hard part is getting sandpaper in there with any kind of stiffness. 

 

One suggestion I would make for future builders of this kit; you can see the propeller-side only extends a little way in, the rest being hollow. It might be worth filling the inside of the part before installation to give you a bit more downstream length to work with. I suspect the light shade of sky might highlight this sudden step but we'll see. Also that @Robin-42's suggestion of doing this after installation is a very good one, giving you both the fuselage to help eyeball the angle of the interior and a nice big handle to work with. It'll also save a second cleanup if you find, like me, that imperfect installation has left a step with the spinner.

 

cheers,
Andy

 

 

[Robin-42]

Looks good. I have glued sandpaper to flat toothpicks to get to small spots. 

[Ngantek]

It was meant to be a crazy busy week, but out of the blue I've got a day off! Hooray. Time for some more muppetry.

 

So how best to spend the day/ half day while the kids are at nursery/ hours after drop off and chores/ few minutes after faffing, chores, kids, making coffee? Well why not start with the bit that we all look forward to from the moment we open the box. Masking canopies! Happy joyjoy fun!

 

This one actually went better than usual which is saying almost exactly nothing. I made the necessary offerings to the gods of swann and morton in the hope of a really sharp new blade. Having spent the morning cursing everything from my fat fingers, the over tackiness of tamiya tape, vallejo masking fluid, the undertackiness of tamiya tape, my overly sharp blunt scalpel, my overly blunt sharp scalpel, the sound of the washing machine, all 1/48 scale kit builders ever and various other unmentionables, I was left this this:

 

I'm having a go at outlining with thin tamiya strips and filling the middle with fluid. I can't however decide which works better: bending/folding the tape around corners (tends to round off a little) or doing the corners with separate strips (tape-on-tape can be a bit messy and won't 'cut' nicely as the upper layer swims around).

 

 

So far it's got that lovely mr surfacer 1500 sheen in black as the 'interior'. you can see from the janky shape, I'm going to need to paint some of the lower part of the forward canopy in black antiglare of the fuselage to 'cheat' the part into the correct shape. 

 

So while I'm munching on a bit of lunch and catching up with the cricket, perhaps people could help me with the upcoming step

!!HELP ME PLEASE!!!!

So, having never done invasion stripes, what colour should I use? Black and white? Nato black and greyed white? I'm sure I read some good ideas on this but honestly can't remember the conclusion!