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Supermarine Seafire FR.47; Special Hobby 1/72 - FINISHED


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Just starting this tonight; one of my favourite aircraft. I find it interesting as pretty much the most distant development of the original Spitfire, and what lines! Everything about it from the contra-rotating props to the ram air intake to the new design folding wings and of course the EDSG over Sky is just >chef's kiss<. I've wanted to build one of these for a long time. I originally was hacking away at the cockpit of the CH/Revell Sea Vixen to make it look something approaching reality, but changed tack for some reason.

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I have an Airfix 1:48 stored up, and was planning the Rareplane version as my first foray into vac-form as well, but part of the reason for this one in particular is to try something a little more challenging, what with the limited run-ish-ness and PE parts.

 

A quick session this afternoon, so far the interior bits have had some Mr surfacer followed by a coat of Tamiya NATO black (to give a bit of range for washing) (incidentally I'd got the impression from various threatds that this was a bluish-black but looks plenty brown-red to me), and the wheel wells some dark grey. I know Sky or interior green or even Ally are probably more realistic choices but I figured Sky might look a bit toy like (couldn't be bothered to change the colour), and I always felt interior green was a horribly land-lubberish colour to put on naval aircraft. So it's an aesthetic decision I'm afraid. The exhausts also got some Alclad burn iron, since I had it out anyway.

 

My first foray into PE, I did the pedals, which I know was pointless and they'll never been seen in this scale, but I need the practice.

 

Since this is a Hi-tech boxing, the instructions immediately ask you to cut up the cockpit, including sanding down the control panel. A sadness really, seeing as it's be best-moulded part in a rather indifferently moulded kit!

 

Thoughts on the kit so far... it has a very Special Hobbyish tang... fairly rough mouldings that always tend towards flat styrene sheet shapes, but with un-square sides! The transparencies all look a little rough. The exterior shape and detail however, all look lovely. This is going to be a good one for the spares box, there's a lot of extra parts for, it appears, pretty much any late mark Griffon Spit.

 

Anyone got experience with this kit?

 

EDIT: oh and also... the gap in the frame behind the seatrest.. I believe maybe has a fuel tank behind it... can anyone confirm, and know what colour that tank might be? I've seen someone paint it red, I'm sure.

 

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There are some really excellent builds and buildlogs on these forums thankfully, so better to look at those than the trainwreck this is likely to turn into 😁

 

I can see already that assembly is going to be a bit of a job. The parts have locating pins but the fuselage ones got lopped off pretty quickly since they locate the two halves very precisely about 1mm offset fore and aft.

 

The wheel wells will need some fairly substantial reduction to allow the wings to close (perhaps I shouldn't have glued them in so flippantly!), and even more since the trailing edges could do with a bit of thinning; but I'm leaving that until I know quite how much thickening flex I need in the wing to level the root join out. However, it looks like the fuselage will need some splay to meet the roots as well, so we're in a bit of a chicken and egg situation! I might end up glueing the upper wings to the fuselage first and making the necessary adjustments to the wheel wells and fuselage splay from there. One of the things I'm trying to work on with this build is to get the fit right, with added jigs if necessary, rather than having to baste the thing in filler.

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The strangest one though is the control panel. You can see there's a clear channel for it to sit with the forward face against the locating nook, and the rear coming up to the cockpit detail struts.

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Unfortunately, that position leaves a big gap between the control panel and the rear face of the cockpit opening, which I suppose I would underlay with some styrene, and then fill with a few kilos of filler. The alternative would be to locate it up against the front of the cockpit opening (which doesn't give a great join anyway).

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In both cases it'll need a fair amount reducing, so I'll need to watch out for that eating into the nice PE control panel; probably better to chisel out that locating step rather than wasting down the control panel. Which, by the way, I put some drops of Klear into the openings of the dials; it certainly makes them look more glass like, but I dunno if it will just make the dials less clear.

 

 

Edited by Ngantek
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Weekends are generally terrible for progress since they belong entirely to the kids; but having sprinted through some chores in the brief window gifted by naptime, I've had a quick chance to at least get handle on the instrument panel issue. After a bit of digging around, I believe the routed channel, leaving the gap, is the correct position. I dug out my 1/72 mark 1 to get an idea (no help at all, the cockpit is too radically different), and the Airfix 1:48 kit, which has a rather drastically different cockpit sidewall design anyway, which can be seen below (closer to reality in my eye).

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Comparison of the Airfix and SH shapes. The SH has a more prononced drop for the forward canopy and an oddly curved or even flat area.

 

 

It seems the SH shape, rather than accurately reflecting the shape of metal on the aircraft, is instead designed to mate with the SH canopies (of which there are two; both included but only one called out in the instructions; presumably the aircraft in the earlier boxing used the former canopy). I imagine considerations of scale, plastic thickness and the need to provide a mating surface led to these discrepancies. Anyway the two designs are nicely illustrated here:
h08.jpg

(source https://www.hyperscale.com/2014/features/seafire4732jt_1.htm)

 

The top canopy, in SH world, has a ledge that mates with the front sill of the cockpit nicely; and would leave no space for the 'scratchbuild' placement of the control panel further forward. The latter shape (the sole one called out in the instructions, even though the former appears in all the paint diagrams) curls over on the forebody and would leave a gap to allow the altered position of the panel. Whichever I go with, I think adding a styrene patch to underlay the hole is probably sensible, though I suspect it'll all be lost under the canopy framing.

 

I can't really decide which I like better. From a building perspective it's better fit and better hiding of the hole weighed against a fussier mask to cut.

 

So that one possibly solved, I'll start fiddling with the fit, before cockpit detailing (which will no doubt need another spray with all the scratching around that Ive done).

Edited by Ngantek
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The cockpit is now painted and the fuselage closed up. FAA black cockpits are always going to be a struggle to get definition. In this case I went NATO black, washed it black and drybrushed first with nato cut with some blue and white, and then humbrol 11 for 'wear', sealed with Mr Color varnishes at each stage. At 1/72, I always struggle to stop the drybrushing from introducing too granular an effect, so perhaps highlighting would be preferable. In this case, at least the black cockpit at this scale will be largely invisible anyway. I've misplaced the nice undercarriage controls PE part sadly, and adding the gunsight at this stage is probably asking for trouble.

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I think NATO black is a little dark, in future I could get away with a lighter shade without it looking obviously grey.

 

As to the gap, I've bridged it with styrene, but because both canopies intrude into the gap to some degree, it can't be filled to fully extend the cowl flush. Perhaps some very softened putty built up to the cowl and then the required gap can be pressed out with the canopy? I just debating whether painting it black and leaving as is will be preferable on the basis of fewer things to go wrong.

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As to the canopies, I'm still undecided.. cutting back the mold issues will make them fit worse actually, but since the frame will not be the same colour as the fuselage there, I can't really afford it to be quite so wobbly.

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Right, onto fettling the wing join when I get any chance away from the ragemonsters. 

 

 

Oh and Eid Mubarak yall!

 

Andy

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28 minutes ago, Ngantek said:

I've misplaced the nice undercarriage controls PE part sadly, and adding the gunsight at this stage is probably asking for trouble.

 

Blighters for going AWOL.

 

Fantastic detail the old cockpit. I thought I had it tough on my 1:48 one but you have managed to get ample amount carefully detailed

 

The styrene comes in handy too and you have made a good placement for that gap. I hope you get peace to continue on your build (My kids are off school here in Scotland)

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On 02/05/2022 at 11:38, PlasticUtopia said:

Blighters for going AWOL.

 

Fantastic detail the old cockpit. I thought I had it tough on my 1:48 one but you have managed to get ample amount carefully detailed

I know right, I'm discovering that PE has a particular propensity for pinging across the room at the slightest provocation. Mostly though, it's because I'm incurably messy, and what with having to move rooms all the time, bits and pieces are often going missing.

 

As to the cockpit, the advantage of 1:72 and it being black, is I can make a right pig's ear of it and it will likely have no effect on the finished model!

 

Not much progress in the last week. One of the kids has decided to stop sleeping and the other sensed the opportunity to multiply the misery by getting sick and having to stay at home all week. So really only the odd minute here and there.

 

Putting paid to my planned 'measure lots, glue once' approach, it turns out the cockpit was somewhat more askew that I realised, but having doused it with CA glue, I blundered on.

 

The fit of the parts is very... odd. Most of the locating pins need removing, and the wheel well sidewalls were so clearly too large, even with my indifferent installation, that I can only assume SH made them so in the knowledge that everyone would have to fettle, and it's easier to remove than add material. The shear amount of material that needed removing doesn't leave you with a great amount of faith in their expected tolerances though! Along with some ejection marks, the trailing edges and a large portion of the radiator wells, the wing interiors have been shaved down pretty radically.

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After a lot of measuring and remeasuring the centreline of the lower wings (I'm starting to distrust everything from the panel lines to the gun positions), I've reached a position of being fairly confident of the critical and sensitive lower wing fuselage join, which rather predictably is the single roughest bit of moulding in the whole kit. it seems the starboard wing gives a really excellent join, only a fraction of a mm off centre; that can be shaved down fairly easily. (although the panel lining and mould in this area has turned out fairly rough)

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The port wing though... well the upper wing root on the fuselage is about 0.8mm wider at the front on the port side compared to the starboard... which may not sound like much until you realise that it's only 3mm long in total. The port upper wing therefore, almost fits on the trailing edge, and gets further and further out along the chord until it's miles out on the leading edge.

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Usually I would've taken this as a sign of some obvious misalignment, but measuring around it seems pretty clear that the fuselage wing root is just miles off, and one side is very noticeably longer than the other. 

 

So an odd one. No doubt par for the course for limited run kits (I don't have a huge body of work to fall back on!), but it's great fit and detail in some places, really dodgy in others, and indications that the tool itself was just cut wrong in places. 

 

Anyway we're mostly there, just that one fuselage root surface and I think it will start looking vaguely like a aircraft.

 

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Some great progress although it is fighting you there.   Sh kits have hot better and better over the years but do need fettling in places.  That wingroute issue is quite big though,  hope you can sort out okay.  

I do my FAA cockpits with Humbrol 67 which is Panzer Grey and then the wash and dry brush accordingly. 

Great work so far. 

Chris

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Greetings Ngantek,

 

9 hours ago, Ngantek said:

Usually I would've taken this as a sign of some obvious misalignment, but measuring around it seems pretty clear that the fuselage wing root is just miles off,

 

😬 That's a lot of misalignment ....Will you sand it down or go for a cut with a dremel first then sand?

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Not much progress in the last week, I had all of Sunday but instead of working on reducing my stash backlog, instead I wandered off to Milton Keynes to significantly expand it. At this point I'm basically a collector who occasionally sticks a bit of plastic to another bit of plastic. Ah well.

 

On 07/05/2022 at 08:17, bigbadbadge said:

Some great progress although it is fighting you there. 

Yes... I suspect it's more a case of me fighting it!

On 07/05/2022 at 08:17, bigbadbadge said:

I do my FAA cockpits with Humbrol 67 which is Panzer Grey and then the wash and dry brush accordingly. 

Great work so far. 

Thanks! I will have a go with that next time. Lord knows I have enough black FAA cockpits lined up.

 

 

On 07/05/2022 at 08:45, PlasticUtopia said:

 

😬 That's a lot of misalignment ....Will you sand it down or go for a cut with a dremel first then sand?

I don't have the cohones to try a dremel! I'd probably end up slicing the nose clean off.

 

In the end I went almost entirely by scraping with the side of a scalpel, much as I've done with wheel wells. Having marked the cut with a pencil, it was all coming down nice and gradually, except the corner in the middle was lagging a little and becoming rounded off. I took one sweep with a needle file to sharpen it again and that was enough to make a big gap. Aiyee. So back we go, padding the hole with a shim of some 10 thou. 

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I turned out you could pop the wing in without much work, but of course that bent the dihedral flat, so it was just a case of planing off a bit and refitting, poking at it for a minute or so at a time throughout the week.

 

The difficulty here, if you're as much of a muppet as I am, is not making it worse. In the end I was happy enough with the fit to bond the bottom wing to the body first.

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While that was drying, I had a hack at filling in the gap in front of the control panel. In the end I settled with this. I'd say it's probably about 20% more likely to be noticeable now! Never mind, paint it black, try to ignore!

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Now the next issue is that, rather predictably in retrospect, my decision to remove material from the root rather than the wing means I'm gradually creating a step as the wing root gets higher. The sensible thing would've been to make the reduction on the upper wing to keep them level. There's some misguided sense of justice at work here where my mind has decided that since the root is wrong, it should be the one to get corrected. Another lesson to learn! Anyway in keeping with the theme of this build to cut stuff up and have to build it up again, I had to put in a shim to add some more wing bend to make up for the step I'd created. Again .25 mm was about right.

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This photo reminded me to clean up the wells before glueing the wing.

So the end result was.. okay. My scraping didn't yield the straightest of edges and the shim could've stood to me a few mm longer. It's all practice at least! I definitely felt I'd reached a point where further interventions were likely to start making it worse.

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While that was drying, I was removing and cleaning some parts (the sprue gate cleanups are kinda scary in places) and debating whether I was stupid enough to try and put some rivets back in.

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So close of play, the wings are finally on, the seams need a fair bit of cleanup but are workable. The whole build up to here, I suspect most WIPs would have covered with a few photos and a laconic 'the wings needed a little work before attaching' without all the hand wringing and histrionics that I've manage to add to the process!

 

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The dihedral eyeballs as kinda about right probably maybe.

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So yeah sorry for all the fuss. Every build I've done so far, there are bits where I wish I'd been less impatient and test fitted and adjusted a little more, so this one I'm trying to push it a bit more until hopefully I find the point where I wish I'd spend a little less time fussing. 

 

 

 

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A few more bits and pieces coming together. Continues to be an odd build, where some parts are just nowhere and others come off clean and fit perfectly. The awkward contoured camshaft bulges fit beautifully for instance, but I'm leaving them off for now since they get in the way of me making a mess of the cowl fuselage seam.

 

I was congratulating myself for remembering to label the sides of the two tail fins for once, but of course they're moulded with a handed locating step. A lot of part design that perhaps expects more of the moulding sharpness than is probably reasonable, but it's better that SH have left you plastic to cut back rather than gaps to make up. This lovely little 90 corner chisel is just about the best thing since sliced bread and has been invaluable on this build, as you can see from the positions of the sprue gates. Everyone should buy one! Or maybe it's just an excuse to troll the three of you who are unlucky enough to open this RFI, with a blown up photo of the mankiest fingers in all of England (TM).

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The landing gear covers actually fit remarkably well closed (apparently this is somehow not a given in modelling?), good enough that I was slightly tempted to temporarily fit them in lieu of making some wheel well masks, and just panting and decalling in situ. The truth is though, there's about a 102.7% chance I would knock them out at various critical moments, and frankly it's just me being lazy. I can't work out if those stubs on the wheel-side part are real features or ejector pin marks.

 

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The radiators are also being put off because I'm also too lazy to paint the grills and interiors.

Instead I busied myself by committing some shameless petty theft of @Chuuurles filling technique. I'm relying on the fact that, when it comes to court, there will be no discernible similarities in result to incriminate me. Out with the beloved Mr save-andy's-posterior 500.

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Alakazam

 

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Ta-daa! Notice how I've managed to retain all of the gaps and bodged gate removal marks, whilst simultaneously still managing to get gunk in all the detail! Ahh well time for another try and maybe some primer tomorrow.

 

I'm sure I came down here to do some work....

 

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10 hours ago, John_W said:

I admire your perseverance. I would have given up and put it on the Shelf Of Doom by now.

Ach, I think it's mostly a rookie modeller making a meal out of a fairly standard kit!

 

I had most of today to crack on but instead I got sidetracked deciding with colours to use. What with my poor impulse control, I seem to have about 3 years worth of various fleet air arm EDSG over sky kits to make. 

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I was losing the will to live by the end, cleaning out the airbrush starts to lose it's appeal after about the 15th time. It did remind me that humbrol enamels are a faff. And that gunze is wonderful and I should use it for everything.

 

The mule by the way, is a forces of valor kit, which come in for a lot of flak (some fairly) but they're cheap, fit well and I had a lovely time glueing it together in the carefree style of 7 year old me.

 

So back to the seafire. At some point during the paint trial, I threw a random shade at the radiators ducts. The radiators themselves got some aluminium randomly, which I tried to wash with black vallejo but always forget that vallejo thinner attacks tamiya and so that didn't work. At first I resolved not to argue the toss with a piece that will get hidden away and never seen.. until I dry fitted and remembered that late mark griffon radiators are madjassive. 

 

So back we go, having had a look at the awesome walkarounds, I realised ally was prolly not the right colour anyway. So dark grey, enamel washed brown and rather indifferently drybrushed metallic is what we've ended up with. 

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The radiator flaps have a duplicate PE piece, but I can't for the life of me work out which way round. Anyone recognise which side these rivets belong to?

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At this point I was having to rush, with the kids' pickup fast approaching and a day's worth of untidied chemicals randomly distributed around the house. With CA squirted onto a postit in preparation for the radiators, the inevitable happened.

 

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Cue mutley noises. I've had a hack at scraping at it with the aid of debonder and might be making progress but also might just be dissolving away the styrene. Having had to put the thing down, anyone know if leaving it will be problematic (like the CA might cure further?)

 

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What. A. Muppet!🤣

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33 minutes ago, Planebuilder62 said:

Just so you know, the bubble canopy and windscreen do not fit each other very well, or the fuselage. Better to test fit and sort it before painting.

 

regards Toby

Thanks for the heads up! I was going to paint separately this time (edsg frame on black antiglare) but the warning is much appreciated. Better to fettle now than on a nicely painted surface. 

 

What were your feelings about this kit? I don't have much to compare to, but it's certainly been more troublesome than the SH hayabusa that's been in extended gestation on my shelf of shame.

 

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One seems to understand that the best way to a good 1/72 Seafire 47 is to combine the requisite parts from the Special Hobby kit

with the Airfix 1/72 Spitfire 22 kit.

One does know that the Special Hobby is short on fuselage length,the deficit being made up by having a too long spinner set,

Aeroclub used to make an excellent contra prop/spinner set for the Rareplanes vacform,,which,incidentally,scales out at something like

1/75,displayed alongside 1/72nd scale Spitfire/Seafire models,it's diminutive size rather stands out quite a bit.

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You’re doing sterling work here and I’m quite sure the result will justify the effort required.  
 

9 hours ago, Ngantek said:

Having had to put the thing down, anyone know if leaving it will be problematic (like the CA might cure further?)

 

Unfortunately, by the time you read this the CA glue will have cured even harder.  On the plus side, it will sand and feather out beautifully, it’ll just take a little while to get it all smooth again.  Be careful where the CA glue ends and the plastic starts, the plastic will sand away much quicker and there’s always the potential for creating a trough.

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4 hours ago, mark.au said:

You’re doing sterling work here and I’m quite sure the result will justify the effort required.  
 

 

Unfortunately, by the time you read this the CA glue will have cured even harder.  On the plus side, it will sand and feather out beautifully, it’ll just take a little while to get it all smooth again.  Be careful where the CA glue ends and the plastic starts, the plastic will sand away much quicker and there’s always the potential for creating a trough.

Just don't leave it too long to clean up. Cyano is about ideal for sanding after it's cured for about 24 hours. However it continues to cure and if you leave it a few days it becomes extremely hard and is very difficult to sand. And also the issue of the differences between the glue and plastic of the kit become magnified. 

 

Great work on this challenging kit. It's looking good so far, despite the challenges it's giving you, and it'll look great when finished. 

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Wow, Bayonets afixed now !!

Great fight on here but you look like you're bound to victory over the kit...

My 1/48 airfix one was not a piece of cake neither !!

Congrats Man !! Well done !!

CC

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Thanks everyone, I appreciate the moral support! Mostly it's self inflicted by incompetence but I did pick this one partly on the basis that it'd give me some experience with kits that don't quite slide together like Tamiya. 

13 hours ago, mark.au said:

Unfortunately, by the time you read this the CA glue will have cured even harder.

 

8 hours ago, 825 said:

Just don't leave it too long to clean up. Cyano is about ideal for sanding after it's cured for about 24 hours. However it continues to cure and if you leave it a few days it becomes extremely hard and is very difficult to sand. And also the issue of the differences between the glue and plastic of the kit become magnified. 

Thanks guys. Unfortunately, we shipped the family off immediately so I'll have to deal with it in another day or two and live with the condition I get. That'll teach me to rush, but at least it's another skill to learn. It's pretty much a given that whenever I try and rush something in, it leads to some ham-fisted catastrophe, but it never seems to stop me doing it the next time!

 

As a consolation, I did manage to drag the kids to Duxford under the promise of snacks and a ride on the bus, so that's been fun at least.

 

7 hours ago, corsaircorp said:

Wow, Bayonets afixed now !!

Great fight on here but you look like you're bound to victory over the kit...

My 1/48 airfix one was not a piece of cake neither !!

Congrats Man !! Well done !!

CC

Thanks! Yeah I'm looking forward to the airfix one too. What with the reprint and the xvii, I have various acquired altogether more copies than I realistically will ever make. Like I said I seem to have issues!

 

2 hours ago, Chuuurles said:

This is very cool! You must be learning a ton while battling a kit like this. Following along.  

  

Yes mostly about my own incompetence! It's been fun though. The wonder of coming back is there are unlimited posts and articles and videos teaching you how to do things,  so 90% of the work has been done. But I'm already in the initial processes of making peace with the fact that I will never be a tidy builder like yourself!

 

20 hours ago, Dave Wilko said:

One seems to understand that the best way to a good 1/72 Seafire 47 is to combine the requisite parts from the Special Hobby kit

with the Airfix 1/72 Spitfire 22 kit.

One does know that the Special Hobby is short on fuselage length,the deficit being made up by having a too long spinner set,

Aeroclub used to make an excellent contra prop/spinner set for the Rareplanes vacform,,which,incidentally,scales out at something like

1/75,displayed alongside 1/72nd scale Spitfire/Seafire models,it's diminutive size rather stands out quite a bit.

Thanks for this summary! I never considered it but yes reading around it looks like many excellent 47s come from conversions of 22/24s. I'd seen some good threads here showing the rareplane being a perfect fit for 1/75, but I suspect if that day ever comes, it'll be all about enjoying a new build technique rather than the finished product.

 

 

Thanks again for the help guys!

Andy

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Hello Andy,

For the airfix one, be carefull if you use the resin interior....

Sometimes, you have to thin the kit so much that the plastic become translucent...

IMHO, Change the prop and the rocker covers... The Barracuda ones are top notch...

If you want to improve the internals, Scratchbuild it... 

Mine has been finished moons ago...

Incompetence ?? That did'nt exist in modelling, it's just a way to learn....:bristow:

We all have experienced some messing.... :emo::emo:

Keep that good spirit Man !!

Sincerely.

CC

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Well I came back, doused it in debonder, and it actually cleaned up fairly nicely. I think it may still need some work, but I'm waiting on the primer to reveal the details. So another round of masking and filling in the areas where the gaps were still proud. Which was everywhere.

 

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It's cleaning up slowly. I'm trying to stay patient and make sure it's a good job. I was hoping to get a layer of primer on tonight, but the radiators aren't yet masked or installed, and I'm still debating how to mask off the cockpit. So trying to learn from the most recent snafu, I'm just going to put it down and come back in a few days when I have time. 

 

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As usual, most of my time was spent ineffectively, in this case rummaging around for some foam or something to mask the wheel wells. In the end I just did what I always do; fill with blu tack and resolve to look for spare packing foam next time.

 

While filling the trailing edge, I realised I could make use of my shonky construction skills an instead opened the gap along the flap surfaces, then filled outside. I'm going to pretend henceforth that it was all entirely intentional.

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I suspect we'll need a good few more filling rounds, but still it feels like slow progress is being made at least. Also, thanks to some very sound advice from all you guys, I think now is a good time to get most of the wheels, canopy, stores and other gubbins trimmed, fettled and ready; it sounds like doing this late in the day might just be asking for trouble; so I suspect this build is going to stagnate a bit for the next few sessions. Anyway it's all progress as they say.

 

Cheers,
Andy

 

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