Belkits Opel Manta 400, help/advice please...

[Jasper dog]

Being mostly an armour modeller and never ever having built a car kit is it any good?

Obviously that's quite subjective question; essentially,  having no experience of making cars, which end of the spectrum does it sit at, Tamiya or Mach 1.

Any issues to watch out for or aftermarket available?

 

Just on the off chance does anyone do a 1/24 or similar HS or HSR Chevette?

 

Thanks

Darryl 

 

 

[Windy37]

Hi Darryl.  I have built the Belkits Manta about a year ago . There's a full work in progress and ready for inspection on the forum here if you search for it . 

 Of the 3 Belkits I have built it was by far the easiest  , probably because the Manta was not a particularly complex rally car . 

  Don't know if you know your rally cars , but I decorated my build in the colours of Andrews Heat For Hire , red yellow and blue which was a challenge.  The kit can be built in either right or left hand drive,  which is a good thing  . 

  Search  for my WIP to see more . 

 Gary . 

[keefr22]

54 minutes ago, Jasper dog said:

Just on the off chance does anyone do a 1/24 or similar HS or HSR Chevette?

 

 

I wish....!!

 

Keith - who can recommend Gary  @Windy37 's w.i.p. to see how to get the best from the kit.

[Jasper dog]

Hi, thanks for that fellas, I'll look it up.

I fancy doing one for a mate, he's into his GM rally cars of the period, just didn't want something that was going to fight me all the way.

 

I think they do one as marked as Jimmy Mcrae's car which might fit the bill.

 

Thanks again

Darryl 

[Windy37]

9 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

Hi, thanks for that fellas, I'll look it up.

I fancy doing one for a mate, he's into his GM rally cars of the period, just didn't want something that was going to fight me all the way.

 

I think they do one as marked as Jimmy Mcrae's car which might fit the bill.

 

Thanks again

Darryl 

There's 2 cars available  , the Jimmy car and a   Guy Frequlin car , but the only difference is the decals in the boxes . The specialist model shop suppliers have a range of different decals , including the AC Delco Jimmy McRea ones . Try Spotmodels.  

9 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

I wish....!!

 

Keith - who can recommend Gary  @Windy37 's w.i.p. to see how to get the best from the kit.

Thanks Keith . I've currently been watching old Irish rallying on you tube and those Chevettes are great cars . 

 Gary . 

[keefr22]

1 hour ago, Windy37 said:

I've currently been watching old Irish rallying on you tube

 

One of my favourite ways to pass the time too Gary, some good current day Irish channels on there too! 

 

Would sell the rest of my stash off if Belkits or somesuch would do 1/24 plastic kits of Chevettes, Sunbeams, Avengers, Vauxhall Magnums etc - and of course a tidy Mk2 Escort...!!

 

K

 

[Redstaff]

Hi Darryl

As the others have said, it's not a bad kit on the whole and makes a decent representation. Fit isn't quite tamiya standard, but it's not bad, decals were good as well from memory. Keep us informed of your progress and ask away 

Ian 

 

[Jasper dog]

23 hours ago, Windy37 said:

There's 2 cars available  , the Jimmy car and a   Guy Frequlin car , but the only difference is the decals in the boxes . The specialist model shop suppliers have a range of different decals , including the AC Delco Jimmy McRea ones . Try Spotmodels.  

Thanks Keith . I've currently been watching old Irish rallying on you tube and those Chevettes are great cars . 

 Gary . 

Thanks Gary, after reading your excellent WIP I had a look at the suggested AM for lowering the suspension, just a pity the firm is overseas. (Just resent spending more on postage than the cost of the item!)

 

22 hours ago, Redstaff said:

Hi Darryl

As the others have said, it's not a bad kit on the whole and makes a decent representation. Fit isn't quite tamiya standard, but it's not bad, decals were good as well from memory. Keep us informed of your progress and ask away 

Ian 

 

Thanks Ian, as long as it's closer to Tamiya than a limited run kit from the 1990s I'll be quite happy.

 

Just need to order it and hopefully it'll be done by Christmas, I know it doesn't sound a punishing schedule but I don't get much time.

Being what I'll freely admit a lazy modeller a predominantly white or single colour has a certain appeal...

Is using the likes of Halfords Appliance White rattle can an approved method in the world of model cars??

 

Not really knowing much about the subject or modelling in the genre any suggestions once it gets going will be much appreciated. 

 

I used to follow the Lombard RAC in the day around Kielder, Grizedale and the borders, but that was mostly in the days of Colin McRea in his Legacy. Failing that it was more track events for me, Oulton Park, Donnington, (I saw Tiff Needell nurf Nigel off into the Dunlop bridge) Snetterton, Mallory,  Cadwell park etc. Generally preferred the club or historic events at these places rather than the bigger BTCC stuff.

 

Thanks again 

Darryl 

[Stef N.]

Good luck on this Darryl. I haven't done many car builds but I have enjoyed them while learning some new painting/airbrushing techniques. A slight different discipline to AFVs but nothing you won't be capable of sorting out. I will follow along with interest when you get started.👍

[Alan R]

56 minutes ago, Jasper dog said:

Is using the likes of Halfords Appliance White rattle can an approved method in the world of model cars??

 

I have certainly used Appliance White on car and aircraft models in the past to good effect.

Give a good glossy finish.

 

Cheers,

Alan.

[Windy37]

1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

Thanks Gary, after reading your excellent WIP I had a look at the suggested AM for lowering the suspension, just a pity the firm is overseas. (Just resent spending more on postage than the cost of the item!)

 

Thanks Ian, as long as it's closer to Tamiya than a limited run kit from the 1990s I'll be quite happy.

 

Just need to order it and hopefully it'll be done by Christmas, I know it doesn't sound a punishing schedule but I don't get much time.

Being what I'll freely admit a lazy modeller a predominantly white or single colour has a certain appeal...

Is using the likes of Halfords Appliance White rattle can an approved method in the world of model cars??

 

Not really knowing much about the subject or modelling in the genre any suggestions once it gets going will be much appreciated. 

 

I used to follow the Lombard RAC in the day around Kielder, Grizedale and the borders, but that was mostly in the days of Colin McRea in his Legacy. Failing that it was more track events for me, Oulton Park, Donnington, (I saw Tiff Needell nurf Nigel off into the Dunlop bridge) Snetterton, Mallory,  Cadwell park etc. Generally preferred the club or historic events at these places rather than the bigger BTCC stuff.

 

Thanks again 

Darryl 

I'm not the best at rattle can spraying and I often use automotive spray cans . I think you can get away with a , shall we say , not a 100% top class finish on rally cars . As new they are never polished to concours standards  ! 

  I too used to stand on the outside of Doningtons Craners and saw the Mansell / Needell incident,  but being there , what still lives in my memory is Senna coming down there on THAT  first lap . In all the rain and spray .... incredible !

 Gary. 

[Spiny]

11 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

Is using the likes of Halfords Appliance White rattle can an approved method in the world of model cars??

 I'm not sure there is an approved, or unapproved method. What counts is how much you enjoy your build (even more than the standard of the end result, or so I tell myself!), certainly much more than whether you use a spray can or not. I certainly hope that rattle cans aren't beyond the pale as thats the only method I've used for mine, whether 'proper' model paints, or Halfords automotive paint. And like many others, I have used Appliance White on a couple of builds (Fiesta in my signature is one). Most of the builds I've seen here use either rattle cans or airbrushing for the body but it mainly comes down to personal preferance, with the hairy stick more likely to be used for interiors and small parts.

 

The only thing I would say is that if you want a showroom shine (not an issue with a rally car) then you will probably need to polish the paint up after spraying.

[Jasper dog]

22 hours ago, Stef N. said:

Good luck on this Darryl. I haven't done many car builds but I have enjoyed them while learning some new painting/airbrushing techniques. A slight different discipline to AFVs but nothing you won't be capable of sorting out. I will follow along with interest when you get started.👍

Thanks Stef,  in that case you're an expert compared to me!

(16yrs with the 1/1 scale versions but little desire to model them).

I love doing AFVs and would still enjoy the occasional wingy-thing but a new modelling experience is always good and I'm sure can only increase the skill set....or so I've been told! 

 

21 hours ago, Alan R said:

I have certainly used Appliance White on car and aircraft models in the past to good effect.

Give a good glossy finish.

 

Cheers,

Alan.

 

21 hours ago, Windy37 said:

I'm not the best at rattle can spraying and I often use automotive spray cans . I think you can get away with a , shall we say , not a 100% top class finish on rally cars . As new they are never polished to concours standards  ! 

 

11 hours ago, Spiny said:

 I'm not sure there is an approved, or unapproved method. What counts is how much you enjoy your build (even more than the standard of the end result, or so I tell myself!), certainly much more than whether you use a spray can or not. I certainly hope that rattle cans aren't beyond the pale as thats the only method I've used for mine, whether 'proper' model paints, or Halfords automotive paint. And like many others, I have used Appliance White on a couple of builds (Fiesta in my signature is one). Most of the builds I've seen here use either rattle cans or airbrushing for the body but it mainly comes down to personal preferance, with the hairy stick more likely to be used for interiors and small parts.

 

The only thing I would say is that if you want a showroom shine (not an issue with a rally car) then you will probably need to polish the paint up after spraying.

 

I'm happy airbrushing matt finishes with Ak, Mig, Tamiya acrylics etc but have little experience of gloss finishes except for a clear coat. To my mind a gloss clear coat is ok but nothing like a nice deep shine I've seen on some of these car builds.

I've used Appliance white on a civilian aeroplane before now and that looked ok and as has been said competition cars generally don't go for a concours-esk finish, generally...

 

I used to look after a chap's MGB back in the day, he would race (circuit) in the MG series, Bs and Midgets. It was a bit too heavy to be competing as a front runner unless at a circuit like Snetterton however he kept that immaculate, know matter how many new wings, bonnets and doors etc we'd put on it.

 

21 hours ago, Windy37 said:

 I too used to stand on the outside of Doningtons Craners and saw the Mansell / Needell incident,  but being there , what still lives in my memory is Senna coming down there on THAT  first lap . In all the rain and spray .... incredible !

 Gary. 

 

I was on the infield, looking down the Craner curves towards the bridge for the BTCC race, how Mansell was working his way through the field of experienced drivers was an absolute joy until Tiff "death and destruction" Needell wiped him out!

 

All that said some of the funniest and closest racing I've seen, particularly memorable at Oulton, has to be the 2CVs. It was like a load of clown cars or a pack of Bees buzzing around together shedding bits and pieces as they went.

 

Nonsense aside, if I get five minutes today I guess I'd better order that Manta then....🤞

 

Darryl 

[Anteater]

On 30/04/2022 at 11:02, Windy37 said:

 

  I too used to stand on the outside of Doningtons Craners and saw the Mansell / Needell incident

 

Me too! Is this like Woodstock, where there were supposedly about 300,000 people there, but by the time Joni Mitchell sang about it they were half a million strong? 

[keefr22]

On 30/04/2022 at 09:40, Jasper dog said:

Is using the likes of Halfords Appliance White rattle can an approved method in the world of model cars??

 

 

The only thing I'd say about Appliance White is that to my eyes it's ''too white'' for use on models. If you look at the paint racks in Halfords there's a huge variety of whites available, so if I don't airbrush a model paint I'll use a bright one of those. I can't remember the name off hand but I've used a Vauxhall white that gives a bright clean white - and would be very suitable for an Opel. My missus' current Focus is in Ford Frozen White which is the 'whitest' white I've seen and makes most other white cars look cream or grey when parked next to it! But it's still to my eyes a more scale white than appliance.

 

But that's probably just me!

 

Keith

 

 

[keefr22]

22 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

but nothing like a nice deep shine I've seen on some of these car builds.

 

Be aware that a lot of model car builders on t'internet now use 2K clearcoat (on matt base coat paint) and this is what gives a lot of those 'miles deep' shines. apart from the fact that the stuff can be lethal if used without the correct p.p.e. (OK I acccept the argument that we don't use as much as full size car painters, but still...) and I'm too chicken to use it, personally I feel that apart from maybe modern supercars it's unrealistic - especially for cars of the age of the Manta. If I don't use decanted and airbrushed full size car paint I'll use something like Mr.color laquers or Zero paint base coat cleared with Mr.Color clearcoat, wet sanded and polished when fully dry. I'll also often flat back and clearcoat decanted auto paint too.

 

22 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

however he kept that immaculate, know matter how many new wings, bonnets and doors etc we'd put on it.

 

 

I used to try and keep my rally cars looking presentable too - if i had time between rebuilding them!

 

The thing is most rally cars will start with either a base road car that will have a 'showroom finish' or will be built up from a factory painted shell. So while they may not have that 'miles deep' 2K like finish they will have smooth, polished paint. 

 

Keith

[Anteater]

That's right, works cars are a different kettle of fish, but most club rally cars are built up from road cars. If they don't get a blow over in white they often stay factory colour. I'm biting the bullet on one of mine because every time I peel a sticker off the factory lacquer comes with it... 

[Jasper dog]

12 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

The only thing I'd say about Appliance White is that to my eyes it's ''too white'' for use on models. If you look at the paint racks in Halfords there's a huge variety of whites available, so if I don't airbrush a model paint I'll use a bright one of those. I can't remember the name off hand but I've used a Vauxhall white that gives a bright clean white - and would be very suitable for an Opel. My missus' current Focus is in Ford Frozen White which is the 'whitest' white I've seen and makes most other white cars look cream or grey when parked next to it! But it's still to my eyes a more scale white than appliance.

 

But that's probably just me!

 

Keith

 

 

 

Thanks Keith

Fair point, I hadn't even considered, how "white" the Vauxhall white of the day was.  (Hang on I've a feeling I'm looking into the abyss of what other genres would refer to as rivet counting....)

 

22 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

Be aware that a lot of model car builders on t'internet now use 2K clearcoat (on matt base coat paint) and this is what gives a lot of those 'miles deep' shines. apart from the fact that the stuff can be lethal if used without the correct p.p.e. (OK I acccept the argument that we don't use as much as full size car painters, but still...) and I'm too chicken to use it, personally I feel that apart from maybe modern supercars it's unrealistic - especially for cars of the age of the Manta. If I don't use decanted and airbrushed full size car paint I'll use something like Mr.color laquers or Zero paint base coat cleared with Mr.Color clearcoat, wet sanded and polished when fully dry. I'll also often flat back and clearcoat decanted auto paint too.

 

Tbh I'll probably go rattle can, don't fancy starting another range of paints on the bench.

From things I've listened to I understand Zero paint to be what they call " pretty hot" but I've no experience of them or spraying gloss for that matter. 

 

22 hours ago, keefr22 said:

I used to try and keep my rally cars looking presentable too - if i had time between rebuilding them!

 

The thing is most rally cars will start with either a base road car that will have a 'showroom finish' or will be built up from a factory painted shell. So while they may not have that 'miles deep' 2K like finish they will have smooth, polished paint. 

 

Keith

 

Think I've an idea of how this is going, probably try for a decent finish from a rattle can and try not to get it to thick.🤞

What sort of primer would you tend to go with?

(I tend to use Halfords rattle can primers anyway, both the standard acrylic grey and the Halfords Bodyshop black and grey primer).

 

Manta has been ordered......

(Probably would have been sensible to practice on cheap kit first but never mind!)

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions and recommendations. 

Darryl 

 

[Kitkent]

Personally I would still use the Appliance white but first use a Tamiya spray can primer or better still Mr. Hobby primer but that’s hard to get hold of. For metal kits I would use the Halfords primer,Tamiya and Mr. Hobby primers are very smooth,ideal for plastic or resin kits.Or alternatively use Tamiya white for the topcoat,the spraycan that is. Chris.

[keefr22]

1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

(Hang on I've a feeling I'm looking into the abyss of what other genres would refer to as rivet counting....)

 

   I'm an aircraft modeller too and can relate to that!! 🤣

 

1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

From things I've listened to I understand Zero paint to be what they call " pretty hot" but I've no experience of them or spraying gloss for that matter. 

 

They are - and they definitely need a good primer coat and applying in light coats.

 

1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

What sort of primer would you tend to go with?

 

Usually I airbrush Mr Color Finishing surfacer in either grey, white or black. However I do still use rattle cans if I'm in a 'can't be bothered to clean the airbrush'

mood. I have used Halfords and Tamiya but my one of choice now is Hycote - simply because they're a fair bit cheaper than Halfords, and it may be my imagination but they seem to last longer and spray at a slightly lower pressure giving a bit smoother finish.

 

One thing I do, is when I've used up a Tamiya rattle can I save the small nozzle on them and replace the one on the car spraycan with it. Again I have no proof, but to me it seems to give more control when using the can. 

 

I do think Tamiya primer is the best for modelling as it's designed for the job. 

 

1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

(Probably would have been sensible to practice on cheap kit first but never mind!)

 

Buy a pack of plastic spoons from ebay or a local pound shop Darryl - they're great for practicing painting on and a lot cheaper to muck up!!   I use them a lot.

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

[Spiny]

Personally I'm in the Halfords primer camp, you get a lot for your money and I've not had them react with the plastic yet. If you want a smoother finish, a quick rub over with 1000 or 2000grit sandpaper as takes your fancy will leave it ready for colour coat. I usually use the grey for dark colours and the white for light colours - depending on the colour coat you're using it can make a BIG difference to the end colour. As an example, the two spoons below are done with Tamiya TS-12 Orange paint, the top one has Halfords White primer and the other Halfords Grey:

 

[Jasper dog]

Thanks @keefr22 for all your suggestions, I hadn't considered swooping the nozzles, interesting idea and worth a punt.

23 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Buy a pack of plastic spoons from ebay or a local pound shop Darryl - they're great for practicing painting on and a lot cheaper to muck up!!   I use them a lot.

Plastic spoons are ok but they lack the sense of drama or jeopardy that experimenting on the real thing creates...

 

On 03/05/2022 at 07:48, Kitkent said:

Personally I would still use the Appliance white but first use a Tamiya spray can primer or better still Mr. Hobby primer but that’s hard to get hold of. For metal kits I would use the Halfords primer,Tamiya and Mr. Hobby primers are very smooth,ideal for plastic or resin kits.Or alternatively use Tamiya white for the topcoat,the spraycan that is. Chris.

 

11 hours ago, Spiny said:

Personally I'm in the Halfords primer camp, you get a lot for your money and I've not had them react with the plastic yet. If you want a smoother finish, a quick rub over with 1000 or 2000grit sandpaper as takes your fancy will leave it ready for colour coat. I usually use the grey for dark colours and the white for light colours - depending on the colour coat you're using it can make a BIG difference to the end colour. As an example, the two spoons below are done with Tamiya TS-12 Orange paint, the top one has Halfords White primer and the other Halfords Grey:

 

Thanks chaps,  I already have Appliance White, might be getting on a bit but might still be ok.

As for primers I have the Mr Mahogany primer but I doubt that'll be ideal under white but I do have a variety of the Halfords primers (just not the white one). The Bodyshop one inparticular levels really nicely to a nice smooth finish.

 

Guess next time I'm somewhere doing paints I'll have a shufty and see what stands out.

 

Lots of really handy suggestion so once I've finished the M4 for the current GB I can probably have a look at it. 🤞

 

Thanks again, looking forward to getting into it.

Darryl 

[Alan R]

It's amazing the difference that the primer colour makes!

 

I have heard that to get a good red, paint the model yellow first.

 

I have seen this on one of the builds here, but not sure where now.

 

Cheers,

Alan.

[Vesa Jussila]

I can confirm that for red yellow primer is good. This is used also in real cars.

[keefr22]

1 hour ago, Alan R said:

I have heard that to get a good red, paint the model yellow first.

 

 

Or pink - as Ferrari do. And if it's good enough for them....!!

 

7 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

I do have a variety of the Halfords primers (just not the white one).

 

The only problem I have in spraying white over a white primer is that I can't see what's been sprayed properly! But that could be just my tired old eyes!! I mix a very light grey from white & grey Mr Finishing Surfacer, but that's not much help if you're going the rattle can route! I'm not sure but I think Tamiya may do a light grey rattle can primer now?

 

7 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

Plastic spoons are ok but they lack the sense of drama or jeopardy that experimenting on the real thing creates...

 

 

Queue Jaws theme tune....!!  🦈 🤣

 

Keith