Curious About Skua L3049, And Skuas In The Mediterranean

[Old Man]

I'm starting another Skua, and want to do one with high demarcation Sky rather than Sky Grey undersurfaces.

 

The Mushroom Skua&Roc monograph has a profile (and photograph) of L3049 in this scheme, as 'L' of 800 Squadron on HMS Ark Royal. I am curious whether this machine was on Ark Royal when it arrived in the Med in July, and whether a Skua at that time would have had the Sky finish already.

 

The Mushroom Skua&Roc monograph also mentions some possibility that in the summer of 1940, there were Skuas which had portions of their undersurfaces painted an azure blue, referencing stills from 'Ships With Wings'. Is there anything to this?

 

 

[Grey Beema]

Something like this?

 

 

 

Try looking about half way through this thread, it might help..

 

 

 

[Old Man]

3 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

Something like this?

 

 

 

Try looking about half way through this thread, it might help..

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot, Grey! That's quite a model, I took it for a slightly colorized old photograph at first glance.

 

You've set quite a conundrum. My previous Skua was an 800 Sqdn machine in the South Atlantic hunting Graf Spee, and I thought a machine of the unit when the type was retired would make a nice companion, a first and last bookend.

 

But that camo/grey/blue scheme is odd enough to seriously tempt me. A distant cousin of the USN tri-color scheme. Did the FAA get any lend-lease finished in that manner?

 

The photograph in the Skua/Roc monograph shows L3049 on the flight deck, with Ark Royal berthed at Gibralter. It's a sunny day. It's not clear whether the dark bottom of the cowling is a demarcation or shadow. Is it likely an 800 Sqdn machine in early summer would also have this colored undersurface?

 

 

[Old Man]

I found this in an old thread by Iang:

 

Indeed, during the deployment in the Mediterranean, June 1940 -April 1941, 800 Squadron lost three Skuas:

A6G: L2987 - escorting Hurricanes to Malta, S/D by AA fire, crash landed Sicily 17/11/40;

A6B: (probably) L2954 - F/L 24/9/40 after attack on warships, crew rescued by HMS Echo;

A6L: (probably) L3049 - F/L 3/2/41, crew rescued by ?

 

So at least that is where the machine ended up. It would be nice to know when it began.

[ClaudioN]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:57 PM, Old Man said:

The Mushroom Skua&Roc monograph also mentions some possibility that in the summer of 1940, there were Skuas which had portions of their undersurfaces painted an azure blue, referencing stills from 'Ships With Wings'. Is there anything to this?

Some images you might be interested in:

L2896

The light blue undersides are associated with HMS Ark Royal and the introduction of Sky undersides in a peculiar way. When Sky was officially introduced in early June 1940, Ark Royal was operating off Norway with Skuas of 800 and 803 Sqn aboard.

The carrier appears to have received the Admiralty message informing that light blue could be mixed at unit level as a makeshift replacement, pending availability of proper Sky from paint manufacturers. This seemingly Ark Royal did, complying as well with the initial indication that Sky (or its subtitute) would be applied to a 'low' demarcation. Hence the odd remaining Sky Grey area between the upper camouflage and the light blue lower camouflage.

A number of phots hinted at this odd scheme (for instance, L2963:F of 803 Sqn), but confirmation came when L2896:A was fished out of a Norwegian fjord a few years ago.

 

It is likely that ALL Skuas taking part in the Trondheim attack on 13 June 1940 were thus finished. Ark Royal then returned to the UK, made good losses incurred at Trondheim and left for Gibraltar and Force H. I assume replacements were 'properly' finished with Sky undersides (and a high demercation), whereas a number of photos suggest that survivors from the June operations retained their odd finish for some length of time. Indeed some have since suggested that the light blue, being not that far from the later Azure Blue, might even have suited Mediterranean skies better, placing no urge on repaints.

 

My rule of thumb would be: EDSG/DSG/SkyGrey/light blue could be seen in the Med throughout 1940, the scheme becoming less likely as the year end was appraoched. Seen only aboard Ark Royal: 801 Sqn (Furious) and 806 Sqn (Illustrious) appear to have had Skuas properly finished with Sky.

 

Claudio

 

[Old Man]

Thank you very much, Claudio.

 

I appreciate the background, I'd only heard of the undersurface blue scheme in connection with the Mediterranean. Very interesting.

 

It sounds like the scheme for L3049 boils down to whether it was with 800 Sqdn before or only after Trondheim. If the former, the blue undersurface would be appropriate, if the latter, proper high demarcation Sky would be. Judging by the losses incurred over Trondheim, that would be pretty much a coin toss. Would the higher serial number weight things towards the standard finish?

[Grey Beema]

7 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

 

It is likely that ALL Skuas taking part in the Trondheim attack on 13 June 1940 were thus finished. Ark Royal then returned to the UK, made good losses incurred at Trondheim and left for Gibraltar and Force H. I assume replacements were 'properly' finished with Sky undersides (and a high demercation), whereas a number of photos suggest that survivors from the June operations retained their odd finish for some length of time. Indeed some have since suggested that the light blue, being not that far from the later Azure Blue, might even have suited Mediterranean skies better, placing no urge on repaints.

 

Claudio

 

 

Not necessarily true, L2927 was a replacement aircraft and Lt Cdr Bruen was re replacement CO.  Bruen replaced Casson who was killed In the failed attack against Scharnhorst 13th June 1940 whilst flying L2896/A.  L2927 appears to have come direct from the stores.

 

Replacement aircraft quickly had their White / Black repainted to ‘Sky’ aboard Ark Royal.  Without ever seeing Sky (light green) it was assumed that ‘Sky’ should be a light blue.  Aircraft underwent a full repaint when Ark Royal returned to Liverpool in October 1940.

 

Thanks to @iang for the research.. 

[iang]

Claudio's assumption that replacement's for losses from the Scharnhorst attack on June 13 would be in standard FAA colours is not a bad one,

[Old Man]

I am in your debt, gentlemen.

 

It seems that however it was finished on arriving in the Mediterranean, L3049 would have been finished in standard high demarcation Sky when its career ended.

 

I hadn't any idea about the blue/grey/camo scheme beyond the odd note in the monograph. It's quite interesting. You hear about such 'off-brand' finishes, which seem often to boil down to speculation turned to conclusion rather than hard evidence, but this one is solid stuff.

 

 

[ClaudioN]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:59 PM, Grey Beema said:

Bruen replaced Casson who was killed In the failed attack against Scharnhorst 13th June 1940 whilst flying L2896/A.

Not killed. Casson and his observer Fanshawe were taken POW.

BTW, had they been killed in L2896 the aircraft would likely be considered a war grave and would/could not be recovered.

[Old Man]

Here is the picture of the machine backing the profile in the Mushroom monograph.

 

It obviously was taken at Gibraltar, when it was sunny....

 

 

About ready to get some paint on the model.