Newbie question: what kits to make British MBTs of the Cold War in 1/72 or 1/76?

[David Womby]

I am planning to take the plunge.  The last tank I built was the Airfix Centurion c. 1968 back in the days of bagged kits on a rack at Woolies!

 

I have the urge to make the MBTs in the same scale as my British  Cold War aircraft.   Given that, I think the tanks to build would be:

 

Comet

Conqueror

Centurion

Chieftain

Challenger

 

What about Cromwell, Charioteer and Churchill - were they in British Army service in the Cold War?  Anyway, what kits would people recommend for each subject, please?

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated as I am really ignorant about tank kits and haven't been able to decide based on searching the web so far.

 

David

 

 

[Baggers]

Takom Chieftain 😀

 

See build by Alex Clark

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/takom-chieftain-mk-10-11-t324501.html?sid=6f9811b3f37727b280219bf71fa9f99f

 

Vespid Comet

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/vespid-models-vs720002-a-34-comet-mk1a--1274572

 

[David Womby]

2 hours ago, Baggers said:

Takom Chieftain 😀

 

See build by Alex Clark

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/takom-chieftain-mk-10-11-t324501.html?sid=6f9811b3f37727b280219bf71fa9f99f

 

Vespid Comet

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/vespid-models-vs720002-a-34-comet-mk1a--1274572

 

Thanks for the help.   Armour is a totally new field for me.

 

David

[Bonhoff]

AFAIK - Cromwells served in Korea.

 

As for kits - The Airfix one was a nice simple enjoyable build, but 1/76 rather than 1/72nd

 

IanJ

[David Womby]

6 minutes ago, Bonhoff said:

AFAIK - Cromwells served in Korea.

 

As for kits - The Airfix one was a nice simple enjoyable build, but 1/76 rather than 1/72nd

 

IanJ

Thanks.  I am just realising that 1/76 may offer more choices.    To be honest, although experts may disagree with good reason, for my purposes  I think I could mix some 1/72 and 1/76 on the shelf and live with it.  I'll only be doing one of each type so the scale difference probably won't be too obvious.  So I have added 1/76 to the thread title.

 

David

[cmatthewbacon]

Ace 1/72 Centurions in various guises:

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Ace-Models-72425-British-MBT-Centurion-Mk3--Korean-war--172_N108283129

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Ace-Models-72426-British-MBT-Centurion-Mk5-172_N108283130

 

Trumpeter or (and?) Revell Challenger:

https://www.onthewaymodels.com/reviews/Trumpeter/SBarnes_Trumpeter_Challenger_preview.htm

 

Takom Chieftain

https://www.themodellingnews.com/2020/09/build-guide-review-172nd-scale.html

https://www.kingkit.co.uk/product/takom-military-model-kits-1-72-5008-fv432-mk-2-1--chieftain-mk-5

 

Vespid Comet:

https://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/product/vespid-models-1-72-british-cruiser-tank-a34-comet-mk-ib/

best,

M.

[modelldoc]

This is my Cromwell from Revell;

used and captured in Korea:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/16395144865/in/photolist-qYMpnt

 

modelldoc

[Old pro]

If you count 1945-1990 as the Cold War, then all the tanks you mentioned were used and most are available in some form or other,

Revell,

Cromwell

Challenger 1

 

Vespid

Comet

 

Takom

Chieftain Mk5 Mk10 Mk11

 

Trumpeter

Challenger 1

 

Ace

Centurion mk3 Mk5

 

Dragon

Churchill

 

Italeri

Churchill

 

For the Conqueror, Churchill, Charioteer you are looking at Resin manufacturers OKB, Cromwell and others for the charioteer conversion or a Churchill conversion, Italeri do a plastic kit but I don’t think the Mk was in use any more, same with some of the Dragon kits. Ace kits are not for the faint hearted and can have fit problems, both Challenger kits have problems but will look like challengers depending upon how accurate you want to be.

Another option for some models, are the ready made market or die cast models,

Hobby Master do a nice range of Centurions, that can easily be modified (after encountering problems with the Ace kits, this is the route I took) They also do a nice Cromwell and comet.

Panzerstahl do a conqueror among others and there are various models of chieftains and challengers out there, the only one I haven’t seen is the charioteer but then I have not looked in a while.

[David Womby]

2 hours ago, Old pro said:

If you count 1945-1990 as the Cold War, then all the tanks you mentioned were used and most are available in some form or other,

Revell,

Cromwell

Challenger 1

 

Vespid

Comet

 

Takom

Chieftain Mk5 Mk10 Mk11

 

Trumpeter

Challenger 1

 

Ace

Centurion mk3 Mk5

 

Dragon

Churchill

 

Italeri

Churchill

 

For the Conqueror, Churchill, Charioteer you are looking at Resin manufacturers OKB, Cromwell and others for the charioteer conversion or a Churchill conversion, Italeri do a plastic kit but I don’t think the Mk was in use any more, same with some of the Dragon kits. Ace kits are not for the faint hearted and can have fit problems, both Challenger kits have problems but will look like challengers depending upon how accurate you want to be.

Another option for some models, are the ready made market or die cast models,

Hobby Master do a nice range of Centurions, that can easily be modified (after encountering problems with the Ace kits, this is the route I took) They also do a nice Cromwell and comet.

Panzerstahl do a conqueror among others and there are various models of chieftains and challengers out there, the only one I haven’t seen is the charioteer but then I have not looked in a while.

Thank you.  Very helpful.

 

David

[Seahawk]

I's recommend you go for the Comet 1B boxing.  It includes a resin canvas cover over the mantlet: these are seen on nearly all Comets but for some reason the part is not included in the 1A box.  1B also has post-war markings (all Hong Kong based except for a Finnish example, IIRC).   Price the same for both.

 

Warning: ACE kits, mainly early ones, can be so crude and poorly moulded as to be seriously demotivating.  I'd try and check some on-line reviews before taking the plunge.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Seahawk

[David Womby]

30 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

I's recommend you go for the Comet 1B boxing.  It includes a resin canvas cover over the mantlet: these are seen on nearly all Comets but for some reason the part is not included in the 1A box.  1B also has post-war markings (all Hong Kong based except for a Finnish example, IIRC).   Price the same for both.

 

Warning: ACE kits, mainly early ones, can be so crude and poorly moulded as to be seriously demotivating.  I'd try and check some on-line reviews before taking the plunge.

I appreciate  the advice.

 

David 

[John Tapsell]

Korean War:

Cromwells were issued to the Recce and HQ Troops of Kings Royal Irish Hussars and also as AOP wagons for Royal Artillery Regts in 1950-51, but I'm not sure that later rotations of units retained them.

 

Churchill Crocodiles served in 1950-51 with C Sqn 7 RTR, but were withdrawn at the end of 7 RTR's stint in country. (they operated without their fuel trailers as normal gun tanks).

 

Other postwar vehicles:

Cromwell AOPs also served with RA units in BAOR into the early 1950s.

 

Charioteer was a post-war conversion of Cromwells and served only briefly in the British Army/Territorial Army as a stop-gap until enough Centurions were available. (most were sold to Finland, Jordan, Lebanon and Austria). 

 

You might also want to look at Caernarvons (a Conqueror hull with a Centurion turret) which served briefly in the British Army.

 

We also leased a half Squadron of S Tanks from Sweden for a year or two - if you want something really off the wall).

[David Womby]

3 minutes ago, John Tapsell said:

Korean War:

Cromwells were issued to the Recce and HQ Troops of Kings Royal Irish Hussars and also as AOP wagons for Royal Artillery Regts in 1950-51, but I'm not sure that later rotations of units retained them.

 

Churchill Crocodiles served in 1950-51 with C Sqn 7 RTR, but were withdrawn at the end of 7 RTR's stint in country. (they operated without their fuel trailers as normal gun tanks).

 

Other postwar vehicles:

Cromwell AOPs also served with RA units in BAOR into the early 1950s.

 

Charioteer was a post-war conversion of Cromwells and served only briefly in the British Army/Territorial Army as a stop-gap until enough Centurions were available. (most were sold to Finland, Jordan, Lebanon and Austria). 

 

You might also want to look at Caernarvons (a Conqueror hull with a Centurion turret) which served briefly in the British Army.

 

We also leased a half Squadron of S Tanks from Sweden for a year or two - if you want something really off the wall).

Thanks, John.  Very informative.  British Army S tanks - now that's a new one to me!

 

David

[John Tapsell]

The S-Tanks (10 of them) were trialed by 2 RTR in 1973 - it was never intended to purchase the Strv 103 but I suspect the army wanted to explore the concepts behind the design. Depending on what you read, the trials were of dubious value.

[Old pro]

Forgot IGB now do a Cromwell, but as with the Revell kit it has issues, although the Revell kit has fewer, MR Modellbau do a conversion for the Revell Cromwell to a Charioteer, the panzerstahl conqueror looks the best over the resin kits which have some turret shape errors especially the OKB one, which is also high priced. The panzer stahl one can go for stupid money but can be picked up a lot cheaper.

[Julien]

If you want a 1/72 Charioteer them MR Model in Germany do a conversion for the revell kits

 

https://www.mrmodellbau.de/shop/MR-72026-Jagdpanzer-Charioteer-REVELL-CROMWELL-p428050628

 

As do Model Miniature in France

 

http://www.model-miniature.com/product.php?id_product=32

[badger]

For the Charioteer I have the Modellbau conversion which is nice quality and meant for the Revell kit. Model Miniature can be quite rough - I've just binned a set of their T55 tracks as they were rubbish.

 

You also need a set of 15.5 inch Cromwell tracks from OKB if you want to be truely accurate.

[badger]

On 22/04/2022 at 14:13, Seahawk said:

Warning: ACE kits, mainly early ones, can be so crude and poorly moulded as to be seriously demotivating.  I'd try and check some on-line reviews before taking the plunge.

The Centurion range are much better and cleaner moulded than Ace's earlier range but still not an easy kit to build.

 

I've replaced the road wheels on mine with modified Vespid comet ones as they were a bit oval. Vespid will sell you the sprues seperately (and I managed to get a mantlet cover as well).

[KRK4m]

I think we forgot about the Vickers MBT. I know it's not used in the UK, but it was developed and manufactured here for some time.

And India liked it so much that over 2,200 were produced - more than the Comet, Chieftain or even both Challengers combined.

The problem is that no one seems to make such a kit - shame on Messrs Airfix and others.

Cheers

Michael

[David Womby]

Being an armour newbie, I'd  never heard of that one.  Interesting.

 

BTW, I have now completed a Comet, Conqueror,  Centurion,  Chieftain  and Challenger.  I also have an unbuilt Churchill as it was used in Korea but can't  find decals for it.

 

David

[KRK4m]

On 9/12/2023 at 2:09 AM, David Womby said:

Being an armour newbie, I'd  never heard of that one.  Interesting.

BTW, I have now completed a Comet, Conqueror,  Centurion,  Chieftain  and Challenger. 

I also have an unbuilt Churchill as it was used in Korea but can't  find decals for it.

To be honest, @David Womby, I still feel like a newbie when it comes to this topic, too. I am 66 years old and I have always (let's say since the age of 6-7) been interested in cars, planes and trains - due to everyday visual contact with the 1:1 scale originals. Therefore, these three branches became the basis of my modeling. About 30 years ago I was writing an aviation appendix for a two-volume encyclopedia of the Pacific War and I met a modeler writing a warship appendix. I got infected with the fourth branch. But tanks?

Just 5 years ago I couldn't tell the difference between a Matilda and a Valentine, or a Leopard and a Challenger. But in an English museum I saw dioramas of landing sites from Vietnam and Iraq, where helicopters interspersed with various APCs and tanks... and a fifth branch appeared. But although during these 5 years I have read dozens of books in this field and have already built over 30 1:72 AFVs, I also learned about this Vickers' Indian adventure only a few days ago. Unfortunately - as you can see, most kit makers haven't learned this yet either

Nice collection of your five British tanks - and a dozen or so months ago you were just starting, bravo!

Mine has seven, but covers a completely different 40-year period - from WW1 to Suez (Mark IV, Matilda, Valentine, Crusader, Churchill, Cromwell, and Centurion).

As for the Churchill, what is the problem with decals? You haven't chosen a specific vehicle to build yet, or do you already have the object but don't have decals for it? In the latter case, you can follow my Churchill's path. I bought sets of tiny white letters and numbers from www.warlordgames.com and slowly fashioned them into complete markings for a tank from Tunisia in 1943 that was ignored by all the decal manufacturers.

Cheers

Michael

Edited September 17, 2023 by KRK4m

[David Womby]

17 hours ago, KRK4m said:

>

> 

As for the Churchill, what is the problem with decals? You haven't chosen a specific vehicle to build yet, or do you already have the object but don't have decals for it? In the latter case, you can follow my Churchill's path. I bought sets of tiny white letters and numbers from www.warlordgames.com and slowly fashioned them into complete markings for a tank from Tunisia in 1943 that was ignored by all the decal manufacturers.

Cheers

Michael

There are decals for a 1/76 Churchill in Korea but they are OOP.   (Decalcomaniacs DM-118).

 

If I can establish a correct combination of registration number and tank name, I suppose I can do those but I need the regimental markings too.

 

David