French tank markings in Suez 1956

[KRK4m]

1. As far as I know, in the 1956 Suez campaign the AMX-13s were used (leaving Israel aside) by 2 French units: 2e Regiment Etranger de Cavalerie and 1er Regiment Etranger de Parachutistes. But all the photos I know (OK, only half a dozen) show on the turret base a black number 4 on a white disc, from which 5 white arms protrude upwards. What does this emblem mean?
2. Black number plates (numbers in block between 831400 and 831700 plus French tricolor) are always single-row at the front, and at the rear (with no specific rule) sometimes single, though usually double-row. There is a two-digit number in a square area touching the registration plate (both front and rear). First I saw 12 and 13 so I thought it was the weight data for crossing the bridges. But once I got a red 30 on a yellow background and the previous theory fell through. What does this number mean? Why is it sometimes white on blue and sometimes red or yellow on a black background?
3. The right rear mudguard shows sometimes a symbol similar to a cross with bars tapering towards the ends. Sometimes red, sometimes blue. What does it mean?
4. Where on the tank was the coat of arms painted with the unit emblem of the 2e REC or 1er REP?

Cheers

Michael

Edited April 24, 2022 by KRK4m

[KRK4m]

A week has passed and no answer - pity... The model is painted and waiting only for the decals.

The existence of Franco-British animosities is a well-known fact. But that so? 😉

Did I make a faux-pas when asking the Britmodeller forum about the insignia on a French tank?

Or is it really just that nobody at BM is interested in such mentally strange topics?

Cheers

Michael

[Peter Browne]

Might be helpful to post some pics.  Without seeing them, it sounds like a unit, or sub-unit emblem.  

 

Peter

[KRK4m]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:03 AM, Peter Browne said:

Might be helpful to post some pics.  Without seeing them, it sounds like a unit, or sub-unit emblem. 

Please have a look there:

https://www.mojehobby.pl/products/Suez-1956-French-AFV-s.html#gallery_start

http://olivier.carneau.free.fr/kits/france/amx13_type2a/amx13_010.htm

http://olivier.carneau.free.fr/kits/france/amx13_type2a/amx13_013.htm

http://olivier.carneau.free.fr/kits/france/amx13_type2a/amx13_018.htm

https://www.militaryimages.net/threads/atrocities-mass-murders-and-war-crimes-during-the-1956-anglo-french-invasion-of-port-said-and-port-fouad-suez-war-part-1.9487/

 

Any help will be much appreciated

Michael

 

[Kingsman]

The symbol in question1 is a flaming grenade.  The number within it is a rail transport classification for SNCF.  All French military vehicles carry this somewhere, usually each side.  No idea about the rest. 

 

If it helps, I believe the NATO MLC bridging classification for an AMX-13 was 18, which by definition would be black numbering on a yellow disc in that period.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Kingsman
addition

[KRK4m]

Thanks a lot, @Kingsman. There is finally a step forward. So the grenade with the number 4 is the same on all of them.

On the other hand, the typical NATO bridge load indicator is not in any photo or profile. After all, Suez is not Europe and they managed somehow.

I'm beginning to suspect that those numbers in the square box next to the licence plate are just the individual tank number within the unit, and the colours of the number and its background meant the unit.

Cheers

Michael

 

PS. I just came across this photo - I am intrigued by the dark (black or olive) rectangle on the bin at the rear of the hull. It is not the licence plate area,  because this can be found on the left fender in the (traditional for the French 1950s) double row format. What this is about?

Edited August 19, 2023 by KRK4m
picture added

[Kingsman]

Yes the white grenade with a black 4 will be on every AMX13.  There was another thread about French AMX13 markings somewhere recently where the MLC marking was on the lower right turret front.  Your black rectangle does look like a matricule number without the digits.  Perhaps painted-over to avoid identification of the actual units involved?  This was controversial.

 

The other markings might simply be to do with the operation.  Landing craft and/or beach allocations etc.  Similar to WW2.  Offhand I don't believe that France had a universal tactical ID system at the time.  You don't tend to see numbers or symbols on French Cold War vehicles: all you seem to see are matricule, MLC, "rail grenade" and often a name.  So something probably needed to be put in place for the operation.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Kingsman
Bad spelling!