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Arma Hobby NEW 1:72 P-39Q Airacobra


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5 hours ago, TheKinksFan said:

Eduard sells so much aftermarket products, which are quite expensive, so they can price their kits competitively.Although lately they have had to raise their kit prices, and IIRC I read that they will raise them further after the E-day. On the other hand small companies like Arma Hobby have to sell their kits at a price they sell, they really can't afford to sell them at a lower price. It sucks that they are expensive, but unfortunately that's how it is.

Arma overpriced their products when they were resin producer, and are still doing it today, there is no objective reason ( even in this time) why mainstream kit of a WW2 single engined fighter costs 25€, they  had the brains to see that 72nd scale market has been neglected, and profited from it, and they have every right to do so.

My problem is that others have seen ( at least in theory)that people are willing to pay such ludicrous prices ( Clearprop included )and are following with

similar pricing policies for both new tooled and older repops.

In the long run, such overpricing won't do good to no one-both buyers and Arma.

 

Edited by Thomas V.
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I don't know the economics of Arma Hobby so I can't say whether they are over pricing their kits or not, but the kit was showing just over £26 at Hannants which I though was a bit expensive but it's come down to £22 now which is the same as the P-51, but of course there's no etched in this kit, though I guess they've added a bit more detail to the plastic because of this.

 

 

 

 

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I'm getting a few different kits direct from Arma, $25 a piece.  Similar to what i'd normally pay for an Eduard kit with masks and PE.  Arma, Eduard, IBG, Flyhawk, and others are just more expensive.  They are worth it to me and not to others.  That is fine, it's your hobby, it is your choice.  Airfix's new Meteor is not cheap either, nor are any of the GWH jets.  Finemolds, also not cheap.

Since i buy the mask for any kit i build (clear parts and i do not get along well), that is often another $7-10 per kit.  So an "expert" or "profi" kit that includes masks, often saves me money or at least makes the kit well worth it.

Edited by ruudster
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On 9/19/2022 at 12:13 PM, TheKinksFan said:

Eduard sells so much aftermarket products, which are quite expensive, so they can price their kits competitively.

 

It's not a question of aftermarket products sales volume, but the fact that Eduard does everything in-house. They have their own mould-making workshop, their own injection machines, their own decal printing, their own PE and resin production. This significantly reduces the cost of the kit. Usually other companies have to pay someone to make the moulds, to inject the parts, to print the decals, and to send it all to them. Each of these companies has to make a profit on this service, and this profit is the extra cost that Eduard does not bear. This is why comparisons of other companies to Eduard do not make much sense.

 

Their prices are due to rise from November and I would not be surprised to see a 20% increase:

 

In my last editorial I informed you that with the high probability on 1 November 2022 there will be an across-the-board price increase across our entire product range. The main reason for this is a combination of material price increases, and above all the price of electricity. Given that the development of energy prices is still unclear, we're waiting for the price increase for now. If we proceed with the price change as of the announced November 1st, we will inform you of the new prices and the methodology for implementing this operation in a separate e-mail in early October. The price increase applies to the EUR and CZK price lists.

 

 

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On 9/19/2022 at 10:59 AM, TheKinksFan said:

Plastmodel.pl has the P-39Q as a pre-order, I noticed that they have the same pictures as on armahobby.com, showing the extra 3D parts. So I wrote the customer service and asked if the kits will include also those extra parts. Today I received a reply "yes you will get 3D print parts, we sell the same kits as Arma Hobby in our shop!" I already pre-ordered two from armahobby.com, as I live inside EU I don't have the shipping issue. But for most of you that live outside the EU, this could be of interest, if you wish to get the extra bits. 

But there is a caveat,  there is no 100% guarantee that the kits will actually include those parts. Sometimes something is promised in good faith, but later the information proves to be unrue.

 

Unfortunatelly this is not true.  Extra 3D parts you can obtain ONLY in preorder and ONLY in ArmaHobby shop directly. No oder shop will sell 3D parts. This parts are preorder promotion and wan't be in regular kit.

So this Plastmodel offer must be the misunderstanding.

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22 minutes ago, zegeye said:

Unfortunatelly this is not true.  Extra 3D parts you can obtain ONLY in preorder and ONLY in ArmaHobby shop directly. No oder shop will sell 3D parts. This parts are preorder promotion and wan't be in regular kit.

So this Plastmodel offer must be the misunderstanding.

Thank you for the clarification, I already had my doubts. Especially when it's repeatedly stated by Arma Hobby that only they will sell those kits containing 3D parts. Like you say, on Plastmodels part it surely is a case of misunderstanding.

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7 hours ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

 

It's not a question of aftermarket products sales volume, but the fact that Eduard does everything in-house. They have their own mould-making workshop, their own injection machines, their own decal printing, their own PE and resin production. This significantly reduces the cost of the kit. Usually other companies have to pay someone to make the moulds, to inject the parts, to print the decals, and to send it all to them. Each of these companies has to make a profit on this service, and this profit is the extra cost that Eduard does not bear. This is why comparisons of other companies to Eduard do not make much sense.

Thank you for this insight. Although I have been aware that they have basically everything in-house, it doesn't really sink in how big an impact it does have. I appreciate your comments here on Britmodeller, and never skip reading one.

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Special Hobby( mainstream toolings), Revell, Airfix, AZ, Sword, all of them are to bigger or smaller extent outsourcing their production, and no one is charging 25€ for a single engined WW2 fighter, not to mention that mentioned outsource do to lower cost of final product, not higher one.

While its huge advantage to have whole production " in house" and of course it lowers per item cost, today with runs of 2500-6000 for mainstream kit being new normal,per item price difference is not big between outsourced and ones own product - tooling parks/factory machinery cost a lot of money, taken that into account Eduard should be charging far more to amortize their investements...( although to be fair- they did get some sums from EU funds).

 

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And to be completly honest I'm fed up with people taking things at face value  as well as being served being lots of b.. by people who have more than a passing interest in the company and are more than biased...within 23 pages of this topic, there should be place for every aspect of the brand-pricing included, but in time when some  are willing to fork out 600€ for Lancaster, 110€ for Spitfire or 26€ for Airacobra , in the future we will all get what we deserve-overhyped,

overpriced products. Rant over.

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12 minutes ago, TheKinksFan said:

To be completely honest, I'm starting to get really fed up with all the whining about Arma Hobby's pricing. I'm pretty cerain I'm not the only one. Everyone has the choice of not buying, and also the freedom to not tell others that they won't be buying.

Fair enough. I’m getting fed up of people complaining about others finding the price too high. I bet I’m not the only one, either. Doesn’t make me any more right than you though, and honestly, I’d rather have kept it to myself. My point being that it’s ok to have differing opinions and shutting others down just because you don’t agree or have heard it more times than you’d like doesn’t make for healthy discourse. 
 

As we know that Arma does read these threads, it’s  a valid way of letting them know why we will be buying or not. And if there’s enough people balking at the price, maybe that’s something for Arma to think about.

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1 hour ago, TheKinksFan said:

Everyone has the choice of not buying, and also the freedom to not tell others that they won't be buying.

And vice-versa. If you're fed up with people remarking that they find prices (not just Arma's) increasingly unaffordable, then to be consistent you must surely also be fed up with those who make a point of announcing that they will be buying. Both points of view are equally valid and one deserves to be heard just as much as the other.

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4 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

Fair enough. I’m getting fed up of people complaining about others finding the price too high. I bet I’m not the only one, either. Doesn’t make me any more right than you though, and honestly, I’d rather have kept it to myself. My point being that it’s ok to have differing opinions and shutting others down just because you don’t agree or have heard it more times than you’d like doesn’t make for healthy discourse. 
 

As we know that Arma does read these threads, it’s  a valid way of letting them know why we will be buying or not. And if there’s enough people balking at the price, maybe that’s something for Arma to think about.

They shouldn’t look at most of the comments here.  They should like at their sales numbers and CGS vs income.  If they’re making a profit and able to fund their next project, then they are probably happy with their business model. 
 

again, Arma and many others are more expensive.  They often include masks and PE.  Also they often give you more than two decal options.  If that’s not worth it to you, don’t buy the kit.  But we don’t need a “Arma is too expensive” post on every page of this thread.  IMHO

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4 hours ago, ruudster said:

They shouldn’t look at most of the comments here.  They should like at their sales numbers and CGS vs income.  If they’re making a profit and able to fund their next project, then they are probably happy with their business model. 
 

again, Arma and many others are more expensive.  They often include masks and PE.  Also they often give you more than two decal options.  If that’s not worth it to you, don’t buy the kit.  But we don’t need a “Arma is too expensive” post on every page of this thread.  IMHO

And conversely, we don’t necessarily need an “Arma kits aren’t too expensive” post on every page either. The difference is, no one is telling you not to.

 

Anyway, I’m *really* bored of this now. Have fun, y’all.

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For all those complaining about the price and the box content/price ratio - regardless of scale, manufacturer and technology - I strongly recommend reading this comment from Mr Sulc of the Eduard company, posted on 12 December 2021:

 

Quote

You're always getting a semi-finished product. I would say that there has long been some misunderstanding here about the definition of what is a good or perfect model (or supplement). So to be clear, everything that is made and sold in this industry is semi-finished products, intended for further processing. You will never get anything that can be used without further work put in. We, as manufacturers, try to produce in such a way that the customer/modeller has as little work as possible using our products. That doesn't mean they won't have any work to do with it.

 

It is up to your judgement as to whether the product we offer provides you with a utility and benefit commensurate with its price, or whether the quality/price ratio is interesting enough for you. If it is not, you will not buy. We understand this and have no problem with it. We don't blame you for it, nor do we scold you for it. On the other hand, if you don't like our product, I'd appreciate it if you didn't scold us. I think it's enough if you don't buy it.

 

Source: https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?p=2462447#p2462447

 

Personally, I subscribe to this point of view and regularly put this principle into practice. Which means I bought 15-20 fewer models this year than I had originally planned based on the announcements.

 

Criticism of bad design solutions is understandable, especially those that destroy detail in the kit, cause damage to small parts when cutting from frames, prevent easy assembly of the model and so on.

 

Criticism based on documents and photos is understandable, because such criticism about issues (wrong dimensions, wrong shape, confusion of versions, wrong equipment, wrong armament, wrong markings and so on) can be made only after buying the model, so the buyer has every right to be dissatisfied, especially with substantial / hard to fix errors.

 

On the other hand, I do not understand the complaint about the price. Too expensive? Contents of the box not up to your expectations? Too many/too few parts? Too many/too few markings? Not the markings you would like? There is/isn't PE? There is/isn't resin?

Just don't buy. Seriously, you are not slaves, you have free will, there is no obligation, no one is putting a gun to your head and taking your wallet. You really can buy another kit - 269 new tool model aircraft in 1/72 have been released since the beginning of 2020. With a new one every 3.72 days, so don't say there's nothing to choose from.

 

Instead of spending money on an "overpriced kit", give that cash to a manufacturer who makes models of what you want, that are made the way you want them and that cost what you are willing to pay. And write a letter directly to the manufacturer of the "overpriced kit", why you didn't buy his model and why you bought a competitor's product. Such a message is like a punch in the face.

 

This is not difficult to do. And if there are dozens or hundreds of such punches emails, you have a better chance of influencing the manufacturer than with long threads full of complaining about prices. Because, let's be honest, nobody in the industry is going to give a flying flamingo for such comments on forums, especially as in most cases they simply won't read them, no matter how big the forum is.

Edited by Piotr Mikolajski
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Also of note, I think the design time for a 1/72 kit and for a larger scale kit doesn't differ that much, only the cost for making the molds will differ according to the number of different sprues allocated to a kit... on the other hand, with all the new kits coming available... it's just choosing what you want or really want. 2-3 kits of lower price, or 1 kit of higher price...

Edited by Silenoz
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I did a check at Aviationmegastore.com, which is kind of the Dutch equivalent of Hannants and a decent benchmark for what kits costs in the Netherlands where I now reside (I miss Norfolk :( ).

 

Prices vary a bit between kits as you'd expect but in general you pay between 17 and 20 euros for the basic kits. It's not more than we've had to pay for an imported Hasegawa or Tamiya product in the last 10 years to be fair and Arma's kits are definitely at least as good. It's a bit more than Eduard's kits were until a few years ago, that's true, but those prices have gone up as well.

 

Then there is the 23 to 28 euros you pay for the expert sets. Just getting a mask for your basic kit will boost the price right into that price bracket and that's negating the other stuff like the PE. So really not that crazy.

 

In the end it's everyone's own money to spend and it's an unfortunate reality that things are getting more expensive, but then again that is nothing new either. Arma makes some of the best kits around and you pay an, at least for me, reasonable premium for that.

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22 hours ago, John Thompson said:

this needs a separate sub-forum where people who are so inclined can bicker back and forth about kit pricing, so the rest of us don't have to look at it!

Actually no.  People just need to stop bringing it up every time something too expensive in their opinion comes up in discussion.  Imagine us poor Mods having to read all that :poop:

 

I've had a quick read through this, and it's a load of twaddle.  Do the complainers about the price of kits also press their noses up against the glass of a Porsche dealer and complain that the 911 is too expensive and should be the same price as a... I was gonna say Skoda, but they're quite good now, but you get the gist.  If it's too expensive in your not-so-humble-opinion, just move along.  Don't stand there whining that it's not fair and that so-and-so's XXXXXXX of 1966 vintage is only tuppence, and all kits should be that price.  Some people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

 

TL:DR version: Off topic, stop whining. :dull:

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On 9/29/2022 at 2:24 AM, Mike said:

I've had a quick read through this, and it's a load of twaddle.

Pretty much every new release now is accompanied by a load of complaints about the price is too high, it's the wrong subject, the wrong scale or some other wrong. There is a vain belief that manufacturers read this stuff. None of the ones I talk to do more than take a cursory glance, most less than that. I am sure they have better things to do than listen to the sound of one hand clapping.

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