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Arma Hobby NEW 1:72 P-39Q Airacobra


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1 hour ago, MrB17 said:

Yes, I think about 200 Q’s had a 4 blade Aero Products propeller, So I think that may be an aftermarket thing. It might have been considered by Arma, but with such a small number having them, opted out.

 

It was Q-21 to Q-25, so maybe more than 200

Actually the Q-21 AND Q-25 because there was nothing between these two blocks (no Q-22, 23 and 24).

Exactly 109 Q-21 and 700 Q-25 were built, although many of them were retrograded to 3-blade props in service.

BTW. There is a 4-bladed prop in every boxing of the RS Airacobra.

Cheers

Michael

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2 hours ago, alt-92 said:

Eduard's Spits usually fit 2 in a box, easily. 

 

Btw: same goes for most Arma Hobby kits, the runners they use are stackable (the little weird looking plugs).

When I was assembling three Spitfires together - they all lived in an Mk.IX's Eduard box. Together with trees with unused parts and with various uninstalled parts. So Eduard box is overly huge indeed. And their Tornado desert babes box is even larger and half empty...

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2 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Silly me for asking a stupid question, but didn't the late P-39Q’s come with 4 blade props ?

 

Choose your fighter :D

 

Detail & Scale 8263

Although this photograph is not very high quality, it is very rare and shows one of the P-39Q-25-BEs with the four-bladed propeller. Of all the Airacobras produced, only the P-39Q-21-BE and P-39Q-25-BE had four-bladed propellers, and almost all of them were delivered to the Russian Air Force. (...)

Four-bladed Aeroproducts propellers were fitted to the 109 P-39Q-21-BEs, and the 700 P-39Q-25-BEs that followed. The large majority of these Airacobras were provided to the Soviet Union, and the gun pods were seldom, if ever, present.

 

Mushroom Model Publications 6106

P-39Q-21-BE: Similar to P-39Q-20, but a four-bladed Aeroproducts propeller was fitted.
P-39Q-25-BE (Model 26Q-25): Similar to the Q-21 but with a reinforced aft-fuselage and horizontal stabilizer structure and a four-bladed Aeroproducts propeller. The wing guns were deleted from these aircraft, which were all exported to the Soviet Union. 700 were built.

 

Warbird Tech Series 17

As logged in the USAAF Tactical Planning Characteristics and Performance Chart, these engine/propeller combinations were: (...) P-39Q Blocks 20-30 [Engine] V-1710-85 [Propeller] Aero Products,4-blade*, 11' 7" dia., Constant-speed hydraulic
*A note on the USAAF Tactical Planning Characteristics and Performance Chart for 23 Feb 45 says: "Preliminary tests of P-39Q-21 and -25 show that 4-bladed propeller materially effects (sic) directional stability, but not performance."Some aircraft in these blocks had 4-blade propellers; other propeller specifications listed by the USAAF included: P-39Q-20, -21, and -25, 3-blade, 11 '7" diameter; P-39Q-30, 3-blade, 11 '0" diameter.

_____

 

IMHO if the vast majority of four-bladed P-39s were exported to the USSR, then the lack of photos of them should come as no surprise. The popularity of cameras at that time in the Soviet Union was not very great, and on top of that, photographing equipment from the rotten capitalist West was not welcomed. There might be a war going on, it might be an aircraft from an ally, but the political commissar and snitches were watching.

 

If you add to this the poor identification of the different versions and the errors in the captions because "every Soviet P-39 is a P-39Q and every P-39Q is P-39Q-25", from here it is straight way to the conclusion that the four-blade propellers were replaced with three-blade ones. However, in order to replace several hundred propellers, you first need to have them in stock. Meanwhile, four-bladed P-39s can even be seen in photographs from the final weeks of the war.

 

To be honest, even in Russian books Soviet P-39s are misidentified. In the same book, one aircraft with a four-blade propeller and a visible Q-25 block number may be captioned as a Q-30, the other will be captioned correctly as Q-25.

 

For those who would like to be 100% sure what they are looking at and whether the aircraft has a replaced propeller, I list the Q-21 and Q-25 blocks below.

 

P-39Q-21

  • 44-3851 – 44-3858
  • 44-3861 – 44-3864
  • 44-3871 – 44-3874
  • 44-3881 – 44-3884
  • 44-3891 – 44-3894
  • 44-3901 – 44-3904
  • 44-3911 – 44-3914
  • 44-3920 – 44-3936
  • 44-3941 – 44-4000

 

P-39Q-25

  • 44-32167 – 44-32666
  • 44-70905 – 44-71104

 

HTH

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37 minutes ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

MHO if the vast majority of four-bladed P-39s were exported to the USSR, then the lack of photos of them should come as no surprise. The popularity of cameras at that time in the Soviet Union was not very great, and on top of that, photographing equipment from the rotten capitalist West was not welcomed. There might be a war going on, it might be an aircraft from an ally, but the political commissar and snitches were watching.

 

4 blades here

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lendlease/p-39/misos/213giap-100/213giap-100.htm

 

and here

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lendlease/p-39/misos/213giap/213giap.html

 

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lendlease/p-39/misos/212giap-47/212giap-47.htm

 

I think I have seen more as well.

 

if you search, I'm sure more can be found here

http://ava.org.ru/iap.html

 

HTH

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12 hours ago, TEMPESTMK5 said:

Good afternoon Torbjorn

 Incredible Is it really that expensive to send 2 kits from Poland to Norway ? but I understand that You passed ...

Best Regards

Patrice

 

Cheapest delivery 33€, plus Norwegian VAT and handling fees (25% on cost and delivery, + fees 10-20€). And I won’t get EU VAT back, which I shouldn’t have to pay (I also end up paying 25% tax on the 25% tax for a whopping total of 57% tax). Arma has explained this elsewhere (yes, I have whined), and the EU apparently doesn’t make it easy to export EU-VAT-free. I understand fully that Norway isn’t really their biggest market and the extra cost for them is not worth it. It’s not only Arma though, most others have come to the same conclusion: I used to order from several kit makers directly, and several webshops, but they all have decided to charge EU VAT and delivery costs have rocketed. Only Hannants remain reasonably priced, maybe because of Brexit… but *their* costs increase too, so who know how long that will remain. Maybe it’s time to buy toy supplies for the next decade before it becomes too costly :)

 

Wish they had a pick up at location - it’s cheaper to fly to Poland in person (40€!) and I’d get to eat some nice food.

Edited by Torbjorn
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38 minutes ago, Torbjorn said:

Only Hannants remain reasonably priced, maybe because of Brexit…

Also the £ has really depreciated lately; the exchange rate is currently £100 = $116.7. I can’t recall when I last saw it that low. And the € is basically at parity with the $.

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51 minutes ago, Torbjorn said:

Cheapest delivery 33€, plus Norwegian VAT and handling fees (25% on cost and delivery, + fees 10-20€). And I won’t get EU VAT back, which I shouldn’t have to pay (I also end up paying 25% tax on the 25% tax for a whopping total of 57% tax). Arma has explained this elsewhere (yes, I have whined), and the EU apparently doesn’t make it easy to export EU-VAT-free. I understand fully that Norway isn’t really their biggest market and the extra cost for them is not worth it. It’s not only Arma though, most others have come to the same conclusion: I used to order from several kit makers directly, and several webshops, but they all have decided to charge EU VAT and delivery costs have rocketed. Only Hannants remain reasonably priced, maybe because of Brexit… but *their* costs increase too, so who know how long that will remain. Maybe it’s time to buy toy supplies for the next decade before it becomes too costly :)

 

Wish they had a pick up at location - it’s cheaper to fly to Poland in person (40€!) and I’d get to eat some nice food.

 

After Arma changed from Polish Post to using courier company for delivery to Norway, it became very expensive to order directly from Arma.

I don`t think I saw their kits in the local model shops when visiting the Polish riviera (Gdansk/Gdynia/Sopot area) last year, even if no problems with finding IBG and Hobby 2000 kits. 

 

One option is using another Polish mail order company that sells Arma kits on eBay, for instance:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=trinitymews2&_osacat=0&_armrs=1&_sop=10&_odkw=&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=Arma&_sacat=0

But then you lose the special offers.  I have no other relationship with the above except being a regular customer.

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It isn't just the postage it is their minimum order of 150 odd euro thingies that makes shopping from them nonviable for me.

 

Their pre-order enticements are enticing but get rubbed out with the minimum order and postage

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12 hours ago, Torbjorn said:

Maybe it’s time to buy toy supplies for the next decade before it becomes too costly :)

I started doing that 20 years ago; now I have enough for the next century!

 

John

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On 8/31/2022 at 11:58 AM, Torbjorn said:

The RS model Airacobras have one 3 and one 4-bladed prop.  :)

 

On 8/30/2022 at 9:57 PM, KRK4m said:

BTW. There is a 4-bladed prop in every boxing of the RS Airacobra.

IMMSMW there were 6 types of propellers in Airacobras:

  • 3-bladed Curtiss of 10'5" (317cm) diameter in the P-39C, D, J, L and P-400 versions
  • 3-bladed Curtiss of 11'1" (338cm) diameter in the P-39M
  • 3-bladed Aeroproducts of 10'4" (315cm) diameter in the P-39F, K and the first 166 P-39Ns
  • 3-bladed Aeroproducts of 11' (335cm) diameter in the P-39Q-30
  • 3-bladed Aeroproducts of 11'7" (353cm) diameter in the last 334 P-39Ns and in the P-39N-1, N-2, N-5, N-6, Q-1, Q-2, Q-5, Q-6, Q-10, Q-11, Q-15 and Q-20
  • 4-bladed Aeroproducts of 11'7" (353cm) diameter in the P-39Q-21 and Q-25.

The RS model is designed with 2 hubs and 2 spinners (for 3- and 4-blade versions) plus 3 blades for a 10'5" Curtiss propeller, 3 blades for the 10'4" Aeroproducts and 4 blades for the 11'7" Aeroproducts in every boxing. Thanks to this solution, four of the six above-mentioned propellers are "served on the tray", and only P-39M and Q-30 require plastic surgery by shortening and reshaping the ends of the longest among the attached blades.

Cheers

Michael

Edited by KRK4m
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45 minutes ago, occa said:

I wonder if the AC with 4-bladers had better performance than those with the 3-bladers ?

 

21 hours ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

Warbird Tech Series 17

*A note on the USAAF Tactical Planning Characteristics and Performance Chart for 23 Feb 45 says: "Preliminary tests of P-39Q-21 and -25 show that 4-bladed propeller materially effects (sic) directional stability, but not performance.

 

To be honest, even in Russian books Soviet P-39s are misidentified. In the same book, one aircraft with a four-blade propeller and a visible Q-25 block number may be captioned as a Q-30, the other will be captioned correctly as Q-25.

As Peter already quoted from the USAAF TPCP Chart, the 4-bladed prop affected the directional stability, but not performance. These aircraft were disliked by the pilots and therefore the last variant (P-39Q-30) reverted to the 3-bladed prop with a diameter 7 inches smaller than that of the P-39Ns and early Qs.

Years ago, the misidentification of Soviet Cobras went even deeper - lots of Q-21/25 were repeatedly identified as P-63 Kingcobras because the authors were not aware of the existence of the Q-21/25 version. Hence, many colour profiles of the Soviet P-63 without the USAAF serial number on the tail later turned out to be four-bladed P-39Q-21/25. In the face of this "qui pro quo", it would be worth re-examining the alleged combat use of the P-63 over Poland and in the Berlin operation by Pokryshkin's regiment. Maybe even the pilots also mistook all the 4-blade Cobras for the P-63?

Cheers

Michael

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On 30/08/2022 at 14:25, Dennis_C said:

I remember pushing quite a load of pieces of lead into narrow area between wheel bay and fuselage top side and one lead weight was arranged behind the spinner. And my Cobra falls on its tail if you accidentally shake a shelf. 

Thank you for the reply. I've ordered a 1mm lead sheet and some 4mm lead wire. I was thinking that if I run out of space, I will put some bits between the leading edge of the wings, not an ideal place maybe, but at least it's on the front side of the wheels. There's more space in Eduard's 1/48, I managed to avoid the tail sitting with Liquid Gravity and thin CA.

Very nice touch from Arma Hobby that they they provide the nose weight.  

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43 minutes ago, TheKinksFan said:

Thank you for the reply. I've ordered a 1mm lead sheet and some 4mm lead wire. I was thinking that if I run out of space, I will put some bits between the leading edge of the wings, not an ideal place maybe, but at least it's on the front side of the wheels. There's more space in Eduard's 1/48, I managed to avoid the tail sitting with Liquid Gravity and thin CA.

Very nice touch from Arma Hobby that they they provide the nose weight.  

 

Of course Eduard supplied a shaped nose weight in their P-39, but for some reason did away with it in their latest boxings, which was strange considering it forms the roof of the nose wheel bay.

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Suddenly it's harder to continue my build of two Academy P-39s. That's the only downside with these great 1/72 kits from the likes of Arma Hobby and Clear Prop, all other kits that you have in your stash start to look less tempting. And I'm not complaining, it's time that a manufacturers really pay attention to the detail in 1/72, OOB, and especially the cockpit. At least that's something I appreciate and enjoy. Compare this instrumel panel with the one from Airfix's recent Tempest mk V. A flat panel with no raised detail whatsoever, that's pretty lame.

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7 hours ago, TheKinksFan said:

Suddenly it's harder to continue my build of two Academy P-39s. That's the only downside with these great 1/72 kits from the likes of Arma Hobby and Clear Prop, all other kits that you have in your stash start to look less tempting. And I'm not complaining, it's time that a manufacturers really pay attention to the detail in 1/72, OOB, and especially the cockpit. At least that's something I appreciate and enjoy. Compare this instrumel panel with the one from Airfix's recent Tempest mk V. A flat panel with no raised detail whatsoever, that's pretty lame.

 

Thats the advantage and disadvantage of having a stash - sometimes kits get superseded by a long way but sometimes you end up with great kits that become hard to get hold of.

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