What is it about Luft 46?

[Mr T]

For anyone interested in how the German war machine worked, then the 'Wages of Destruction' by Adam Tooze is worth a read. It is not about battles, but about how the German economy worked between 1933 and 1945 and the constant juggling act between competing demands of the armed forces and the rest of the country for very  finite resources. He makes some interesting observations about Albert Speer, highlights that the Occupied Territories never reached their economic potential and that the Germans were constantly taking from Peter to give to Paul to meet the demands of the current and intended military campaigns. One of the main reasons that the German aircraft carriers were never finished is that the Germans never had the full resources in terms of raw materials and manpower to complete them in a timely manner, irrespective of what Hitler or the German Navy 

He also believes that the British Bombing offensive against the Ruhr was much more effective than the post war Bombing Survey gives credit. 

As I have never really been interested in building Luftwaffe aircraft anyway, the bizarre and largely impractical looking Luftwaffe 46 stuff leaves me cold. 

[alt-92]

The Vampire Economy by Günter Reimann is also an interesting read if you're in to that specific area.

 

 

 

[IanC]

15 minutes ago, Mr T said:

He also believes that the British Bombing offensive against the Ruhr was much more effective than the post war Bombing Survey gives credit. 

 

Especially the less well known phase from the autumn of 1944 onwards when production and transport infrastructure was massively disrupted and in some cases finished off completely. 

 

[JohnT]

11 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

11 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

 

Me, I'm waiting for a 1/48th B-32 Dominator and Vickers Windsor myself    

 

I mean, who here isn't  .... 

 

and an a 1/48th Yermolayev-2 as well please

 

This must be one of the protoypes,  image picked for the offset canopy...     

 

 

That cheered me me up this morning but personally I’m waiting for therm in 1/32. Where is Tom Probert when you need him 

 

Meanwhile that Yermolayev thingy looks a bit like something the designers at Heinkel and Junkers drew up on the back of a wine list at the end of a night out on the booze. Heinkel canopy, front end, wing plan and fuselage, Junkers for the gull wing and tail

[3DStewart]

15 hours ago, JohnT said:

To attempt an example I find it odd that - to rake an example - HK Models produce a 1/32 Mitchell in two versions but not the Marauder and nor does anyone else. Yet they do the Do335 in all versions. Now here I accept they know best and better than I but I’d have guessed a 1/32 Marauder would sell well in the US market and tolerably well elsewhere. Yet there seems little appetite for it? 

 

I've never thought of the Do-335 as a Luftwaffe '46 type.  It was produced, it did fly (at least the fighter-bomber version) and it even saw (very) limited combat. There's also a real one still in existence.  In my view it has just as much claim to be kitted as any other twin engined WWII combat aircraft, possibly more so due to its unusual configuration and shape.

People will model what interests them, and successful kit producers simply go with the money. It's sometime hard to accept this when our favourite subject is ignored, but alas that's the way it is.

 

Just embrace the inner '46 modeller inside you!

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by 3DStewart

[AdrianMF]

Thanks all for a lively discussion. So the plus points for Luft ‘46 seem to be:

- imaginative and varied designs

- advanced technology for the time

- freedom to choose your own scheme *

- nobody will nit-pick your unit codes

- not another Spit/Tang/109/190

 

The minus points seem to be

- the horrors of the regime that begat them **

- it’s not real dammit!

 

The Allies were winning, and didn’t need much more than an evolution of their designs to stay ahead. The Third Reich needed a leap ahead, and with the Me262 and V weapons, they arguably made the leap well.

 

Someone in the thread made a fine point about the desirability of the Vickers Windsor as an RAF’46 kit!

 

I appreciate that people will weight all those things differently, and some will build, some won’t.
 

I think my post was prompted by surprise at the apparent size of market and associated depth of pocket for this genre, and also the breathless narrative that assumes that every design would have been world beating if only they had access to a few kilograms of titanium/tungsten/indium etc.

 

Now, where did I put that Fw 187??

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

* trying to track down documented unambiguous Albacore schemes this week has driven me nuts.

** begat/begot? I need an English expert. @Procopius??
 

 

[Procopius]

I actually have no formal training in the English language whatsoever -- I had to see a guidance counsellor during those classes -- but I believe begat is correct in this case.

[Old Man]

On 4/15/2022 at 8:20 AM, SafetyDad said:

OK, OK, I'm going to own up here and fly the flag (apparently by myself!) for the virtues of Luft '46 modelling.

 

For me it goes back to my modelling days in the 1970s, where Airfix was king and Frog radical and daring (and, more expensive - a significant issue on a pocket money budget). But Airfix Magazine carried adverts for companies such as Lindberg, who did kits of exotica such as the He 162, the He 100 and the Do335. The closest I could get to this was the Airfix Me 262. The attraction then, and still now, was the departure from the norm. I don't have much time for the 'alternate reality' side of Luft '46, for me it's the different designs and shapes involved. Of course it makes little sense when you step back and place these designs into the real world, but modelling for me has always involved a healthy dose of imagination (and as I get older - nostalgia).

 

So, just a little tongue-in-cheek,  shame on you all detractors - Luft '46 is escapism pure and simple. It's what might have been and what excites your imagination. Isn't that true for most modelling? Not so different from sci-fi or 'what if' modelling really. I'll admit to having a fairly well stocked stache of these models - now where's my Triebflugel?

 

SD

 

 

You're absolutely right, of course. It interests you, and that's all. A lot of this boils down to people not quite getting others don't share their interests. I like to model a particular aeroplane, to find out everything I can about its career in service, and like to have some bit of a yarn behind it all. So it's no surprise 'what if?' stuff of any sort makes no appeal to me. If a lot of the old aeroplanes that interest me most interested many other people, I expect they'd be kitted, and I don't expect to ever see that they have been. I see the production of Luft '46 kits in quantity as a waste of effort, so to speak, but clearly it turns a profit, so there's a point of view from which it's anything but a waste. I expect there's modellers who would see my interest in deep background as a waste of effort, that could be better put to assembling more builds, or improving techniques to get to better models. Neither of us would win an argument over it.

 

 

[Bozothenutter]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:54 PM, SafetyDad said:

 

 

Not quite. The Amerikabomber, high altitude fighters and flying wings were just short of the technological possibilities of the times. Subsequent progress has shown these to be entirely plausible if the technology of the day can catch up. 

 

Hence the attraction...

 

 

SD  

That's about ability, I was talking about necessity 😉

[John_W]

I think there is also the media influence. 

Many years ago the IL2 games range had a Luft 46 expansion in the range.

And look at the Tribelfluggel kits with Hydra markings inspired by the Captain America movie.

And as a bit of a Sci Fi geek, I had heard of the Silbervogel long before many of the other more esoteric designs.

[SafetyDad]

21 hours ago, Old Man said:

If a lot of the old aeroplanes that interest me most interested many other people, I expect they'd be kitted, and I don't expect to ever see that they have been. I see the production of Luft '46 kits in quantity as a waste of effort, so to speak, but clearly it turns a profit, so there's a point of view from which it's anything but a waste. I expect there's modellers who would see my interest in deep background as a waste of effort, that could be better put to assembling more builds, or improving techniques to get to better models. Neither of us would win an argument over it.

 

 

There is of course the counterargument - that someone interested in Luft 46 or What-if  then becomes involved in real-life modelling subjects? And also, let's remember that anything that generates revenue and thus allows the model companies to continue benefits all of us. Think of the Revell Luft 46 range and how successful this was.

 

I don't do Gundam modelling but I suspect a lot of others do - it's huge in the Far East. Keeps the companies in business. 

 

I too have an 'interest in deep background' as you say and model real-life Luftwaffe subjects. Many modellers have multiple interests. Gosh, I have even some,  sssh....  , tanks! . Oh, and some are 'Paper Panzers' . 

 

 

 

SD

[AdrianMF]

2 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

Gosh, I have even some,  sssh....  , tanks!

We will be quiet as a Maus…

[RobL]

To me "Luft '46" is mostly what if.  What if WW2 had gone on for longer, what if the Nazi regime had got some of the designs off the fag packets and into prototypes, or even production.  And the Nazi "Wunderwaffe" seem to have been more widely publicised than western allied contemporaries.

 

However, the only "Luft '46" thing I'm fascinated by is the Horten Ho 229.  Because it actually flew, had several prototypes, was an early jet, was a flying wing and could have been an early "stealth fighter" due to it's apparent low RCS.  It was also apparently on the Emergency Fighter Program.  Had the war gone on it's likely it could have gone into production!

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by RobL

[Procopius]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:56 AM, Giorgio N said:

The Spiteful and the MB-5 afterall are just two other pretty "standard" WW2 piston engined fighters

 

So it's pistols at dawn, then.