FloydWerner Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 I built the Spitfire Mk.IIa of P/O William Dunn, No 71 (Eagle) Squadron, RAF North Weald, 1941. My question is does it have the antenna wire from the mast to the tail or from the horizontal tails to the fuselage sides? Or not at all. I added both and I know at least one of them is incorrect. Floyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expositor Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Hey Floyd, You got it right adding both; the radio lead goes from vertical tail to a flange of sorts on the post and straight down to an insulator, while the wires from the tailplane to the sides are the IFF leads. Cheers, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) Hmm. I think by this time, in this area, they'd have been using VHF radios, which means no wire from mast to rudder. You can see the "spike" atop the rudder and the little pennant on the mast in the photo of the aircraft (which would have held the wire for the older style radio), but in a closeup of him in the cockpit (claimed to be same aircraft, at any rate same time period) I can't see the wire that would be running down aft of the mast. Likewise I can't see the "cheese cutter" IFF wire from fuselage to stabilizer, but that's not unusual in photos. I don't know enough to say whether "most" aircraft had it at this time, or only some. (In the closeup, you can see the location on the fuselage, but that's at the edge of the photo, so hard to say whether anything comes out. Here's the image I'm talking about: https://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/17188 Edit: 71 Sqn got the Mk.IIs primarily from 602 Sqn, who were converting to Vb. Their ORB notes the arrival of the Vbs, and that they need to have VHF fitted before they could be operational. (They probably were delivered with no radios, rather than having HFs that needed to be switched over.) Edited April 15, 2022 by gingerbob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Early Mk.2's such as those entering service in 1940 would have had the aerial wire when built/first entering service as the VHF sets were not available at this point but later one's had these sets and the early ones would probably have had the VHF retrofitted as well. Not sure about the IFF wires though as I have pics from 1941 showing them in place and others where they are absent so having them is quite possible, but in 1941 it's more likely than not that there would be no aerial wire. Regards Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 It probably depends on which end of 1941 we're talking. The Spitfire Site page on masts & aerials is a bit vague about just when the transition occurs, Mk IIs ex factory in early 1941 may still have had a radio aerial wire but these would have been replaced by VHF radios later in 1941. IFF wires to the horizontal tail surfaces, almost certainly. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 VHF wasn't universally adopted overnight. But unsurprisingly, 11 Group and neighbors got priority. Even that might be a more simplistic statement than what really happened, but I haven't seen anything spelling it out. I ran across one ORB comment recently about a formation in which one pilot communicated an engine problem (?) to the only other one who could hear him- I think they specifically said VHF. THAT I found surprising, but it also probably was a squadron doing convoy patrols and such, rather than offensive sweeps into France. I've also seen several comments about having received Spitfires, but they don't yet have radios fitted, so aren't operational. Also, when changing bases (and Groups) they had to get new crystals fitted for the frequencies in use locally. That may pertain to HF, I'm not certain offhand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) Almost all my pics of Mk2's are from around the May-July 1941 period and all of them show no sign of the aerial wire so I can only assume by this time the VHF radios were pretty standard fit, although it is quite possible that others still had the older radio. However a good photo to look at is the well known one of P7666 of 41 squadron taken in December 1940 (sometimes also referred to as P7618) which shows no wire and which is also then pictured whilst flying with 54 squadron in February 1941 before its loss on the 20th April, with its codes changing from EB+Z to KL+Z in the process. Regards Colin. Edited April 19, 2022 by fishplanebeer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Just to add that the Airfix 72nd scale Mk.Va kit allows you to build a Mk.2a with the decals for EB-Z 'Observer Corps'. Regards Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, fishplanebeer said: Almost all my pics of Mk2's are from around the May-July 1941 period and all of them show no sign of the aerial wire so I can only assume by this time the VHF radios were pretty standard fit, although it is quite possible that others still had the older radio. However a good photo to look at is the well known one of P7666 of 41 squadron taken in December 1940 (sometimes also referred to as P7618) which shows no wire and which is also then pictured whilst flying with 54 squadron in February 1941 before its loss on the 20th April, with its codes changing from EB+Z to KL+Z in the process. Regards Colin. I may need my eyes checked, but I reckon I can see a radio wire against the mud background just aft of the mast (or is it a line in the mud?); also IFF either side of the rear fuselage band (?). Edited April 19, 2022 by Peter Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Looked again at a larger sized pic and I still can't see any wire, plus there is no evidence of the wire going down into the fuselage, the usual prong on the mast is missing or very small and there isn't a connector on the rudder from what I can see. The pic I have of it after it was handed over to 54 squadron in February 1941 definitely shows no aerial wire although the IFF wires were still there. Regards Colin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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