Worn-out Dewoitine D.520 - "Black 1" of Group Doret (Ossun unit)

[Milos Gazdic]

As I am going through things I have regarding Dewoitine D.520, I found this interesting machine:

Based on the uniform of a man standing I am unable judge much but it seems like an Allied uniform.
I have nothing about this aircraft & have no clue where does the image come from. I tried the Google Image search but had no success. 
Does anyone have any info? A better scan/print of the same image? More images of the same machine? Any further info?
TIA
Milos

Edited April 18, 2022 by Milos Gazdic

[Ed Russell]

According to a comment here

there is a series of photos.

[Milos Gazdic]

Hello Ed,
It could have easily been ex-Luftwaffe aircraft, since there is an overpaint of swastika on the tail & someone seems to have painted presumably yellow rudder with some dark color (green?)
I have quite a few of the shots showing those Luftwaffe airframes (in use or captured) but never seen the above one.
Link you have posted doesn't seem to show the airframe in my picture, or maybe I am not good with "reddit" - since I am not using it much?
Thanks for the willingness to help anyhow! 
Best,
Milos

[GiampieroSilvestri]

The Luftwaffe flew Dewoitine D520 in Jagdfliegerschulen from JG101 to JG107 in France.The JG101 was based at Pau in southwest France.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Edited April 14, 2022 by GiampieroSilvestri

[Milos Gazdic]

Ciao Giampiero,
Yes, according to my info:

JG 101 and 105 which were scattered over many Belgian and French fields: Brussels, Nancy-Tomblaine, Paris-Le Bourget, Chartres, Pau, etc. and  JG 103, Austria used D.520s for training purposes. This aircraft clearly comes from one of those. 
Still question remains: where was the shot taken? What is the source of the photograph? And are there any more out there that anyone knows of

[fishplanebeer]

The photo seems odd in that to me the D520 was a much smaller airframe than it appears here or have I got this wrong? All the kits I've bought in the past have been smaller than this in scale as this one seems to be on a par with a Typhoon!

 

Regards

Colin.

[Ed Russell]

1 hour ago, fishplanebeer said:

The photo seems odd in that to me the D520 was a much smaller airframe than it appears here or have I got this wrong?

Both pictures are D.520 aircraft. Maybe you bought a 1/87 kit? 😀

 

@Milos Gazdic That is the only picture in the Reddit thread but someone makes a comment (copied below) that  it is one of a series of photos. I haven't seen any others.

 

ThisIsPickles

·1 yr. ago

I've seen other photos of planes in a semi disassembled state in what appears to be the same building. I assume it was damaged by bombing before the facility was captured?

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[Milos Gazdic]

It was not a small aircraft by any means, Colin.
At about 2500kg - it was a decently sized aircraft. Approximately similar size to Emil. Probably a touch higher stance on ground. 

 

Quote

 I've seen other photos of planes in a semi disassembled state in what appears to be the same building. I assume it was damaged by bombing before the facility was captured?

I do have quite a few of those Luftwaffe machines from both North (North France / Belgium) and South. But I have not seen any of them in such derelict state.
I somehow have a belief that this photo was taken down on the South West & that this same machine later became famous "Black 1" of CFP:

 

[Wulfman]

An ex Luftwaffe D.520 being reconditioned for use by the French, perhaps ?

 

Wulfman

[Milos Gazdic]

That is my idea based on things I read - but trying to put visual puzzle together

 

[Phoenix44]

The background to the two photos is reasonably distinctive - maybe search for the buildings by airfield? 

 

Not sure if this site helps: 

https://www.anciens-aerodromes.com

 

[GiampieroSilvestri]

The picture you posted can be found on page 113 of the aero journal hors serie number 8 December 2004.It was taken in august 1944 at Tarbes and shows aircraft number 548.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[Milos Gazdic]

Awesome Giampiero!!
Will check it out
Milos

[fishplanebeer]

My previously held opinion of the D.520 have been corrected as I always assumed it was quite small as in similar in size to the Morane 406 but clearly it is somewhat larger and more impressive.

 

I'm assuming the best kit in 72nd scale would be the Hobby2000 issue of the Hasegawa kit or is the RS kit worth considering perhaps?

 

Regards

Colin.

[Milos Gazdic]

I have replied over on HS explaining my belief (turning to be correct) that the "worn out" D.520 is indeed "Black 1" often portrayed in profiles

LINK to Hyperscale discussion on the same subject

Big thanks goes to  @GiampieroSilvestri for the pointer. With too many books & magazines on the shelf I often fail to locate the needed info

All the citations below come from Aero Journal Hors-Serie Nº8's last, fourth chapter, dealing with "Liberation Dewoitines", the authors explain (my own translation, mind it, I don't speak French, so take this with care):

"As elsewhere in France, the resistance was far from united in the R4 region around Toulouse. Alongside politically oriented organizations was the OMA (Organisation Métropolitaine de l’Armée), made up of non-politicized former army officers and reservists, whose sole aim was to drive the occupiers out, from French soil. Its local leader, Major Pommiès, could not find common ground with the other resistance organizations and decided to create his own unit, the Corps Franc P (which later became Corps Franc Pommiès).
On June 6, 1944, the date of general mobilization, no less than 6,000 volunteers joined the CFP, making it the most significant military formation in the region. In fact, in the R4 region, things will develop swiftly immediately after the Allied landings in Provence on August 15, 1944."
...
"On August 19, Colonel Ravanel, commander of the French Forces of the Interior (FFI) in the R4 region, signed the official birth certificate of the “First FFI Fighter Group of the R4 Region”. Two former Air Force officers have refused the command of this unit, so Mr Segaut offered it to Marcel Doret on August 20."
...
The text further explains that Doret & few other companions (pilots) travelled by car to Tarbes / Ossun where they arrived on August 22.
And also explains the use of D.520s Nº8, Nº513 and Nº531 as the first machines used in the action by SNCASE pilots. 
...
"At Ossun, Caillette’s predictions proved to be too optimistic. The French found only one D.520 (Nº548) in good condition but partially dismantled. It took 48 hours for it to be able to fly again. The aircraft was officially taken over by the CFP on August 23 and duly decorated with the Corps Franc badge on the fuselage. Six other aircraft, awaiting delivery of spare parts from Toulouse, can be returned to flying condition within a fortnight (two weeks period)." 
...
The photo of the aircraft in the initial post is printed with the caption:
"The “#1” of Tarbes/Ossun (Nº548) as it appears at its recovery. The Luftwaffe markings have been roughly repainted. (Photo M. Garel, Collection: G. Fruchart)"
The photo of Black 1 is given under, captioned as:
"Against a background of Pyrenean landscape, Nº548 with the black and white stripes and the CFP insignia, probably at the end of August 1944. (Collection: R. Cassou)"
Photo shows "Black 1" with B&W stripes, CFP star, 1 on the tail, and roundels with Lorraine Crosses over them (most famous photo we all know).
...
Obvious from the captions and a table given at the end of the article "Black 1" and worn out the machine of my interest are in fact the same aircraft and the aircraft was obviously swiftly prepared for action. I suspect, looking at the photos showing "#1" on the fuselage behind the CFP star that the airframe received only one top colour & one side & underside colour! I believe this has not changed until the end of its career, with small overpaints of marking changes. Some of them are explained in the text:
"August 26 also saw the arrival of Captain Gérardot to Toulouse. He was sent by the General Staff in Algiers to Doret. This was the first step toward the Air Force taking control of the unit. Without wanting to make him a sort of “political commissioner”, Captain Gérardot probably came with the order to avoid any possible drift, even if the conduct of the Doret group had been irreproachable up to that point. He gave the order to repaint the planes with markings closer to the traditions of the Air Force (one can assume that the CFP insignia had disappeared at this time)."

Morane-Saulnier plant in Tarbes-Ossun (where one part of the unit was based, inc. famous "#1) was pushing out much fewer machines from their "factory" compared to SNCASE in Toulouse. Their camouflage obviously differed. Tarbes-Ossun machines were similar to "Black 1", where SNCASE ones had more extensive "dotting" applied to them. When they moved all to "circled" numbering on the tails the font differed a bit too. I am trying to compile as many of these machines together so I can more clearly understand these differences and finesse of markings that were obviously changing on a "daily" base.
Regarding "Black 1":
_first style was: Black 1 behind the CFP star. Lorraine Cross superimposed over the roundels on 4 positions. Lorraine Cross over the white area on the rudder.
_second style: Black 1 moved to the tail position. CFP star remains. B&W stripes were applied to the fuselage & wings. 
_third style (standardisation of the markings): CFP star removed completely. The rudder is unchanged. Tail marking receives a white disc under numeral 1. FFI was applied to the fuselage stripes - black letters over white stripes.
Additional NOTE: The photo I have of "Black 1" showing this phase show only FFI on the fuselage, but the photo of "Black 2" from Tarbes-Ossun, photographed side by side next to SNCASE's "Black 2" shows the difference in the camouflage between these two units/factories. Additionally, spinners seem to have received 1/3 white segment (similar to some Luftwaffe units / could be the utilization of spinners produced during the Luftwaffe / Erla's control over the production, but could equally mean that this feature was applied to some of the surviving Ossun machines at one time. Just like some of these Ossun machines received softer dots "a la Luftwaffe" on the sides of the fuselage. 
_fourth style would probably be in line with GC II/18 looks 
With GC II/18 Saintonge taking over Group Doret's aircraft, stripes do disappear & areas are overpainted and heavily dotted. Based on Aero Journal & Docavia book, It is clear that Nº548 survived & served in both GC II/18 & I/18. An accident by Cne Mangin was documented on  March 7, 1943 which seems to bring Nº548's career to the end.

Could this possibly be Nº548 in GC I/18 ??? [differently marked in Docavia book's caption!]:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/download/file.php?id=138748

Thank you

Edited April 18, 2022 by Milos Gazdic

[Milos Gazdic]

I forgot to mention that chapter 18 of Docavia's book writes (once again my own translation so take it with the grain of salt):
"As they left the factories in Tarbes or Toulouse, the D.520s of the Doret Group received an individual identification number, painted on their tail fin in black on the white circle. (IMPORTANT!) Each of the two squadrons numbered its aircraft from #1, without taking into account the other squadron. As a result, the numbers from 1 to 5 were worn by two different aircraft of two squadrons!"
To overcome this issue suffix BIS is given to Ossun's airframes (i.e. #2bis) or they are referred as: # of X location (i.e. #2 of Ossun).

Of importance is: "The #1 of Toulouse was destroyed, on August 24, during an accident which cost the life of the Chief Warrant Officer De Bar." so basically #1 of Ossun & #1 of Toulouse, that were also camouflaged differently, didn't have long "overlapping life", lasting only one day! (#1 of Ossun Nº548 was built on 23rd, and #1 of Toulouse Nº531 was lost on 24th according to Docavia & 25th according to Aero Journal (on the same day they were built).
If anyone has access to these loss records - I would appreciate the pointer.

Of note: There are some discrepancies between SNºs given by Docavia book (published earlier) and Aero Journal HS Nº8. Main issue is Black Noº1 of Ossun which in Docavia book is marked as Nº526! Anyhow, Nº548 is mentioned in use up until GC I/18 in Docavia book too (where except it's listing in GC I/18's inventory it says: "On 7 March, D.520 Nº548 was scrapped after an accident" which fully matches A/J's statement in article's chart. 
I tend to believe to A/J team a bit more (I still hold Docavia as a bible on the subject) due to the fact it was further after the publication date of Docavia book. Correct me if I am wrong in this belief please.

 

[Milos Gazdic]

Avions Nº233 article & caption confirming we are seeing #1 here too:
in what I call the "third style" of markings above (CFP star was removed completely. The rudder is unchanged. Tail marking receives a white disc under numeral 1. FFI was applied to the fuselage stripes - black letters over white stripe)

 

[Milos Gazdic]

Lockdown in Shanghai is finished. So far the first parcel from France arrived. One more expected fairly soon. 
First parcel brought:
_Les Ailes #3
_Aerei Francesi nella Regia Aeronautica
and unrelated 
_Idrocorsa Macchi

Les Ailes #3 is all I could expect about FFI D.520s & more!! LOVE IT! I hope that issues #1 2 & 4 that are on the way are as good as this one!
I love it for confirming most of my assumptions about the D.520 Nº 548 and all the variations of camo it went through. It is the first article that correctly shows this airframe in single upper surface color!

[Milos Gazdic]

And to add to the discussion... I would add these two photos:

coming from http://ww2fighters.e-monsite.com/pages/content/dewoitine-d-520-4.html
From the site:
 

Quote

On August 19, 1944, the Germans left Châteauroux after blowing up the remaining facilities at airfield "La Martinerie", east of the town. On the 20th, a group of about fifty partisans (which quickly increased to 200), under the command of Lieutenant-Colonel Tison, occupied the airfield to allow it to be used again. They found and repaired aircraft wrecks, including a Heinkel 46 and a Dewoitine D520.

On August 27, the D520 was ready to fly, marked with the letters FFI on the fuselage to avoid misunderstanding. Master Sergeant Givelet, who had not flown since 1940, tested the aircraft but finished the flight by a belly landing, the landing gear broken. Two days later, the return of the Germans from the South was announced. The FFI left the airfield after hiding the aircrafts under metal sheets and went back home. About fifty of them took the road to the woods. The Germans left the field definitively on September 10.

Please note that the aircraft was featuring the rhomboid shape (square positioned under 45º in fact) with the Cross of Lorraine in it (probably blue on white). Very similar shape is seen in the first photo of the Nº548 seen in Tarbes-Ossun shown in Post #1. Could it be possible that Cross of Lorraine was planned for Nº548's tail too? But maybe blue & red?
 

[MDriskill]

Following up on Milos's note...issue no. 3 of the new French magazine "Les Ailes" is devoted to the D.520's rebuilt or manufactured new under Vichy and German direction, and their subsequent use. Superb 47-page article with histories of Groupe Doret, GCB 1/18 Vendee, and GC 2/18 Saintonge; lots of rare photos; and 17 excellent color profiles.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by MDriskill

[Milos Gazdic]

I believe it is a total MUST for anyone who is interested in these units & machines! Eye opener in many ways. Will have to do a translation ASAP!!

 

[MDriskill]

6 hours ago, Milos Gazdic said:

I believe it is a total MUST for anyone who is interested in these units & machines! Eye opener in many ways. Will have to do a translation ASAP!!

 

Those of us whose college-boy French has long since flown the coop, would appreciate the translation very much!  😜  "Les Ailes" does at least have English photo captions in their major articles (but, printed so small one wonders if they are intended more to taunt us).

 

Each issue has a long feature article as good as this one, plus many shorter articles, and running series on French camo colors and WW2-era gunsight details. "Big" articles in each issue:

1 - Bloch MB.155

2 - French P-40's in Tunisia

3 - D.520

4 - CG 1 Alsace in Libya and Egypt

Edited June 2, 2022 by MDriskill

[Milos Gazdic]

I have zero knowledge of French but the softwares have developed so much. As long as I am not lazy to scan & OCR the text the rest is easy so fast.

I am looking forward to my remaining issues of the magazine!

[alzictorini]

This is a very interesting read, lots of historical research and great team work from other members.

read it top to bottom twice

well done guys