Enzo the Magnificent Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Post your reference information here. Please note if posting artwork or photos you must either be the copyright holder or have the copyright holder's permission to post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) The way in which Japanese aircraft were numbered/described and named can be ruddy confusing as there were usually at least 2 systems in use at once and also the JAAF and JNAF did it differently just as they competed with each other for resources and manpower. I suspect most of you are at least partly familiar with this but there may be a few newish modellers who may find it a bit confusing so my contribution to the reference section is a brief guide - everybody else look away now! Firstly, the aircraft type number was determined by the year in which they aircraft design was accepted for production but you must remember the Japanese calendar was totally different to ours at the time. So the Western year 1921 was the Japanese year 2581, but was also known as Taisho 10 after the reigning Emperor's family name and how long they had been on the throne. Naval aircraft used the number Type 10 for that year but the Army did not at that time have a system. In 1926 a new Royal Family took over and it became Showa 1. The Navy switched to using a “Shisaku” (experimental) numbering system then so any planes ordered then were “1-Shi” (maybe only until they entered service) and in 1927/2587 both they and the Army also started using the calendar year as “Type 87”. Numbers ran in sequence up to 1939 with 14-Shi/ Type 99, after which the Shi number sequence continued, but the year number was reset in 1940 to year “0” for the Navy and 100 for the Army, hence the A6M fighter ordered in 1940 was the (15-Shi )Type 0, and in 1941 both switched back to type 1! To further confuse matters the Army introduced a parallel system of Kitai (airframe) numbers in 1932, which they backdated. This was simply a sequence allocated in terms of the order in which the plane was accepted for service so for example the Ki 61 was the next plane after the Ki 60 irrespective of who made it or what type it was – I said it was confusing! By now you will probably have spotted the flaw in a system based on the year a design was ordered – what happens when there is more than one plane ordered in the same year? There were two answers to that question. Firstly the full official title specified what type of aircraft it was, so the D4A2 I am building was in fact the ordered into production in 1942 as the (16-Shi) Navy Type 2 Carrier Reconnaissance Plane whilst the Ki-100 I am also building was ordered in 1945 as the Army Type 5 Fighter, its parent the Ki-61 being the Type 3 Fighter. I said there were two answers and of course the Navy threw in another variation similar to the US system, an alpha numeric “code” that identified, the type, manufacturer and aircraft itself. Hence the D3A was the third Japanese Navy dive bomber (D3) and designed by Aichi (A), whilst my Judy was the fourth dive bomber(D4) and designed by the Yokosuka Naval Arsenal (Y) although mostly built by Aichi, and of course the A6M was the 6th naval fighter(A6) designed by Mitsubishi (M). There were various ways of showing the variants of each basic design but that is also rather complicated – suffice it to say that the Navy used a fourth character in the “code” eg D4Y1, D4Y2 etc, coupled with a Model Number, so that the first airframe/engine combination was always Model 11, if the airframe was changed it became 21, if the engine was then also changed it became 22 and so on so the Zero A6M2 Model 11 became the A6M2 Model 21 when folding wings and other alterations were made, then A6M3 Model 32 with a new engine and clipped wings, but when the wingtips were reinstated it became the A6M3 Model 22. By this stage even I am getting confused so I hope I have got that right. Army Aircraft used Roman Numerals eg Ki-61-I, Ki-61-II and so on coupled with the Japanese letters Ko, Otsu and Kai, usually shown in Western texts as the letters a,b,c., hence Ki-61-I Kai would be Ki-61-Ic.The Navy also used a,b,c etc for small modifications hence A6M3a Model 22A with long wing cannon, A6M5b Model 52B with one nose gun switched to 13.2mm etc. And finally - “popular names”. The Army apparently had no set pattern for names but the Navy did when they were used which was not always the case. Fighters were named after meteorological phenomenon eg lightning, wind etc, attack aircraft after mountains, recce planes after clouds and bombers after stars and constellations and so on. Hence the J2M Raiden (Thunderbolt), D4A Suisei (Comet), C6N Saiun (Painted Cloud) and P1Y Ginga (Milky Way), and one for Pat, G8N Renzan (Mountain Range). I have lists of type and manufacturer codes if required but will leave it at that. Of course the Allies also struggled to know what to call the Japanese planes and invented their own naming system - well two of them in fact if you count the original system used in China where Tojo for the Ki-44 originated - boys names for fighters, girls for bombers etc, and as the originator Frank T McCoy came from Nashville Tennessee I believe, some of the names are what has been described as "hillbilly" - Zeke, Nate, Rufe and the like, but they were easy to remember! They called the Zero the Zeke (or I think initially Ben in China) but it never really stuck once the Allies learned that the Japanese called it "Reisen" a shortened version of "Rei Sentoki" or Type Zero Fighter, but when the A6M3 version appeared with its clipped wingtips they thought it was a new plane and called it Hap, until General "Hap" Arnold or perhaps his staff objected to reports of large numbers of "Haps" falling in flames, so they changed it to Hamp, but later it went back to Zeke. Hope that is of use to one or two of you - I know it confused the h*ll out of me for a long time. Pete Edited April 15, 2022 by PeterB 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andwil Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 On 4/13/2022 at 7:24 AM, PeterB said: In 1926 a new Royal Family took over and it became Showa 1. Not quite. Japan has only ever had one Royal family. The terms Taisho and Showa are “Reign Names” chosen by the Emperor. The Emperor’s own name was not used. Thus Hirohito is known in Japan as “The Showa Emperor”. The current Emperor, Nuruhito, has chosen Reiwa as his era or reign name. AW 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianfuxia Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 I just stumbled on this really cool site about Japanese Phantoms. LOADS of crazy photos of jets with all kinds of colour schemes and most of them a weatherer's delight. http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/aF42j.html 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) Here is the data I've compiled from: https://www.scalemates.com/books/camouflage-and-markings-imperial-japanese-navy-fighters-in-wwii-272--116702 https://www.scalemates.com/ja/books/camouflage-and-markings-imperial-japanese-navy-bombers-in-wwii-406--119058 They both contains 16 paint chips (not printouts) each that cover the color range for an interesting topic. I've measured them all using an spectrophotometer to get reference. The colors measurements are given here in multiple formats: L*a*b*, Munsell and also an approximate RGB simulation. Important note about color names: The color name translations are mine, please forgive my japanese and do not treat them as the reference itself I did my best I could with google translate. The prefixes, like IJNF or IJNB are *mine* they do not refer to anything official anywhere. I use them to build my own database of color references. If a color name has GU + some number, it represents its finish in Gloss Unit measured by gloss meter. Simplified - flat is around 5 GU, semi gloss is around 30, gloss is around 80. If color name has - Metallic - it is a metallic. If color name has - Gloss, Velvet or some other suffix it is same as GU level measurement just translated to more meaningful names. Imperial Japanese Navy Fighters in WW2 Imperial Japanese Navy Bombers in WW2 I've also calculated the mixes that those colors using Golden Fluid Acrylics paints. Imperial Japanese Navy Fighters in WW2 Spoiler IJNF001 - Mitsubishi Dark Green - GU 23.5 Suggested using total of 19 parts (DE00: 0.40) Expected: #394B41, Simulated: #384B40 Sap Green Hue: 6 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 4 Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide: 7 Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue: 1 Prussian Blue Hue: 1 IJNF002 - Nakajima Dark Green - GU - 45.5 Suggested using total of 5 parts (DE00: 0.49) Expected: #374B3F, Simulated: #384A3F Sap Green Hue: 2 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 2 Raw Sienna: 1 IJNF003 - Kawanishi Dark Green - GU 38.5 Suggested using total of 22 parts (DE00: 0.50) Expected: #38463F, Simulated: #36453F Sap Green Hue: 10 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 9 Diarylide Yellow: 1 Phthalo Blue (Red Shade): 2 IJNF004 - Mitsubishi Light Gray White - GU 59.6 Suggested using total of 49 parts (DE00: 0.49) Expected: #94989F, Simulated: #93989F Titanium White: 32 Bone Black: 16 Ultramarine Blue: 1 IJNF005 - Nakajima Light Gray Green - GU 59.8 Suggested using total of 49 parts (DE00: 0.39) Expected: #808787, Simulated: #818888 Raw Sienna: 8 Titanium White: 34 Carbon Black: 3 Chromium Oxide Green: 4 IJNF006 - Varnish - GU 56.0 Suggested using total of 36 parts (DE00: 0.37) Expected: #B6AD8C, Simulated: #B5AC8B Burnt Sienna: 8 Primary Cyan: 1 Titanium White: 24 Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue: 3 IJNF007 - Brown (camouflage) - GU 39.7 Suggested using total of 5 parts (DE00: 0.27) Expected: #794A3F, Simulated: #7A4A3E Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide: 1 Burnt Sienna: 3 Raw Sienna: 1 IJNF008 - Emergency Camouflage Green - GU 35.4 Suggested using total of 35 parts (DE00: 0.20) Expected: #55645D, Simulated: #55655D Bone Black: 23 Titanium White: 7 Hansa Yellow Opaque: 2 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 3 IJNF009 - Trainer Yellow Color / Prototype - GU 44.3 Suggested using total of 14 parts (DE00: 0.31) Expected: #E5733A, Simulated: #E2733B Primary Magenta: 1 Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue: 9 Titan Buff: 2 Pyrrole Red Light: 2 IJNF010 - Friend Identification Band Color - GU 58.8 Suggested using total of 18 parts (DE00: 0.46) Expected: #F29B2B, Simulated: #ED9E2C Raw Sienna: 3 Hansa Yellow Opaque: 12 Titanium White: 1 Pyrrole Orange: 2 IJNF011 - Mitsubishi cowling paint color - GU 52.8 Suggested using total of 28 parts (DE00: 0.44) Expected: #3B3F41, Simulated: #3C4042 Bone Black: 25 Teal: 1 Ultramarine Blue: 2 IJNF012 - Hinomaru (Japan Flag) - GU 35.3 Suggested using total of 1 parts (DE00: 3.16) Expected: #AB2635, Simulated: #AF323D - (approximate color) Primary Magenta: 1 IJNF013 - Tea (Propeller) - GU 35.9 Suggested using total of 15 parts (DE00: 0.49) Expected: #67453C, Simulated: #65443B Burnt Sienna: 11 Primary Cyan: 1 Red Oxide: 3 IJNF014 - Mitsubishi Cockpit Interior - GU 33.2 Suggested using total of 39 parts (DE00: 0.48) Expected: #525A54, Simulated: #525A54 Bone Black: 26 Teal: 7 Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue: 3 Pyrrole Orange: 3 IJNF015 - Nakajima cockpit Interior - GU 27.3 Suggested using total of 26 parts (DE00: 0.48) Expected: #959775, Simulated: #969776 Raw Sienna: 3 Titanium White: 17 Carbon Black: 1 Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue: 5 IJNF016 - Green bamboo color (Aotake) - Metallic - GU 53.9 Suggested using total of 20 parts (DE00: 0.48) Expected: #7C9A8E, Simulated: #7B9A8D Titan Green Pale: 13 Bone Black: 4 Primary Cyan: 2 Hansa Yellow Opaque: 1 Imperial Japanese Navy Bombers in WW2 Spoiler IJNB001 - Dark green black (Mitsubishi) - Semi-Gloss Suggested using total of 18 parts (DE00: 0.40) Expected: #3A4E42, Simulated: #3A4E41 Bone Black: 8 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 3 Primary Yellow: 3 Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue: 2 Ultramarine Blue: 2 IJNB002 - Dark green black (Nakajima) - High Gloss Suggested using total of 41 parts (DE00: 0.45) Expected: #3A4B43, Simulated: #3A4A43 Sap Green Hue: 7 Primary Cyan: 9 Raw Sienna: 15 Carbon Black: 1 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 9 IJNB003 - Dark green black (Aichi) - Velvet Suggested using total of 9 parts (DE00: 0.48) Expected: #3C5143, Simulated: #3D5244 Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide: 6 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 1 Sap Green Hue: 1 Permanent Green Light: 1 IJNB004 - Gray (Mitsubishi) - Gloss Suggested using total of 26 parts (DE00: 0.44) Expected: #D7D9D8, Simulated: #D5D6D5 Titanium White: 23 Bone Black: 1 Titan Buff: 2 IJNB005 - Gray (Nakajima) - Velvet Suggested using total of 40 parts (DE00: 0.47) Expected: #9BA788, Simulated: #9AA888 Titan Green Pale: 29 Bone Black: 6 Hansa Yellow Opaque: 4 Primary Cyan: 1 IJNB006 - Gray (Aichi) - Gloss Suggested using total of 24 parts (DE00: 0.32) Expected: #979FA8, Simulated: #969FA9 Titan Green Pale: 11 Ultramarine Violet: 12 Teal: 1 IJNB007 - Dark brown - Gloss Suggested using total of 35 parts (DE00: 0.36) Expected: #604641, Simulated: #604640 Carbon Black: 1 Burnt Sienna: 20 Primary Yellow: 9 Primary Magenta: 5 IJNB008 - Earth - High Gloss Suggested using total of 34 parts (DE00: 0.49) Expected: #735949, Simulated: #735948 Titan Green Pale: 3 Sap Green Hue: 4 Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide: 2 Burnt Sienna: 25 IJNB009 - Brown green - Velvet Suggested using total of 22 parts (DE00: 0.47) Expected: #5D6143, Simulated: #5D6243 Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide: 17 Permanent Green Light: 1 Primary Yellow: 3 Sap Green Hue: 1 IJNB010 - Yellowish Green - Low Sheen Suggested using total of 25 parts (DE00: 0.17) Expected: #606643, Simulated: #5F6743 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 1 Chromium Oxide Green: 3 Raw Sienna: 19 Sap Green Hue: 2 IJNB011 - Blue-gray - Gloss Suggested using total of 47 parts (DE00: 0.44) Expected: #61747D, Simulated: #60757D Titan Buff: 22 Primary Cyan: 12 Pyrrole Orange: 11 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 2 IJNB012 - Gray turquoise - Eggshell Suggested using total of 31 parts (DE00: 0.41) Expected: #7C9E8E, Simulated: #7B9D8E Primary Cyan: 2 Titanium White: 19 Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue: 2 Bone Black: 7 Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade): 1 IJNB013 - Aotake 1 - Metallic - Semi-Gloss Suggested using total of 43 parts (DE00: 0.46) Expected: #8AAFBF, Simulated: #88AEBE Primary Cyan: 4 Titanium White: 34 Bone Black: 4 Pyrrole Orange: 1 IJNB014 - Aotake 2 - Metallic - Gloss Suggested using total of 37 parts (DE00: 0.28) Expected: #9CAA8C, Simulated: #9BAA8C Titan Green Pale: 28 Bone Black: 5 Hansa Yellow Opaque: 3 Primary Cyan: 1 IJNB015 - Black-blue - Semi-Gloss Suggested using total of 22 parts (DE00: 0.49) Expected: #393B3D, Simulated: #383A3C Payne's Gray: 21 Naphthol Red Light: 1 IJNB016 - Red brown - Semi-Gloss Suggested using total of 42 parts (DE00: 0.36) Expected: #675048, Simulated: #675048 Primary Cyan: 3 Raw Sienna: 32 Primary Magenta: 7 Golden Fluid Acrylics are a "professional grade" artist paints, you can see how they work out in practice in my build entry for this exact group build (shameless promotion yay me) Edited July 9, 2022 by Casey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Have you discussed this with Nick Millman, or perhaps one of the other specialists with access to the original Japanese colour manual that was discovered fairly recently? Frankly anything based on earlier references should be taken with a strong pinch of salt and specialist analysis of these representations is a waste of good effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Have you discussed this with Nick Millman, or perhaps one of the other specialists with access to the original Japanese colour manual that was discovered fairly recently? Frankly anything based on earlier references should be taken with a strong pinch of salt and specialist analysis of these representations is a waste of good effort. No I have not discussed it with Nick. This is just a measurement of the reference books that I have access to. I've mentioned it in other posts that I am not 100% sure of the quality of this reference. If you think I should clearly mark this reference as being grossly missleading, please let me know. Edited July 10, 2022 by Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 On 4/26/2022 at 2:45 PM, bianfuxia said: I just stumbled on this really cool site about Japanese Phantoms. LOADS of crazy photos of jets with all kinds of colour schemes and most of them a weatherer's delight. http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/aF42j.html His modelling section is something else too.... 😱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, alt-92 said: His modelling section is something else too.... Yep, I saw the details in 1/72 models there and thought "Nope. Just. Nope." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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