Temperate Sea Scheme paint choices

[Jeff G]

Hey all,

 

What are your recommendations regarding paints to get an accurate TSS? Trying to find the best Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey (one of my favourite schemes)! It should be mentioned I'm a brush-painter, and rattle can user. I was lucky enough to get the new Airfix Beaufort for my birthday so my research is just beginning!

 

Jeff

[wellsprop]

I love the Hataka blue line paints, theres even a coastal Command specific paint set that includes all the colours you need.

 

They aren't the cheapest, but they have a beautifully smooth finish and very good coverage. 

 

https://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/raf-coastal-command-rn-faa-set-blue-line-acrylic-hataka-bs49-p3465/s3465?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=hataka-raf-coastal-command-rn-faa-set-blue-line-acrylic-htkbs49&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&cid=GBP&glCurrency=GBP&glCountry=GB&gclid=CjwKCAjw3cSSBhBGEiwAVII0Z1V-gsYm4gJ75669j2nwKDkDrYI3y7J9IrKC6Yl718Rb3p3SOXmxwBoCF7EQAvD_BwE

 

Here's one of my builds using the Hataka paint

 

Ben

 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Jeff G said:

Trying to find the best Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey (one of my favourite schemes)! It should be mentioned I'm a brush-painter, and rattle can user.

Given you are in Canada, you may want to say what paint you can get, and if you prefer enamel or acrylic,  as you may get suggestions that are not particularly feasible for you.

 

Vallejo Model Color brush well, but their stated matches are often poor.    I can have a recheck of some colours in daylight,  as I have the RAF museum colour chips, I know there were possible matches for Dark Slate Grey in the ones I have.  

 

Bear in mind that would be for full scale as new colours.  

 

@dogsbody has the chip chart, and is in Canada, so maybe have some useful input.

[dogsbody]

As Troy mentioned, I do have some homemade paint charts.

My latest is for some AK Real paints I acquired last year. I bought them through http://www.greathobbies.com/.

I haven't used them yet and when I do, I'll be trying my airbrush again. Saying that, they did brush quite well onto this white file card.

 

 

 

 

I have also added their Interior Grey-green to my Grey-green card.

 

 

 

 

As for my other paints, I haven't done a card for any of those yet, as all I can get up here, on The Backside of Beyond, is Tamiya and charts of that paint is easy to find online.

 

 

 

Chris

[fishplanebeer]

If you are happy using enamels then I would go for Colourcoats by Sovereign Hobbies as they spray and brush really well and generally are pretty accurate as well.

 

Regards

Colin.

[MACALAIN]

17 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

If you are happy using enamels then I would go for Colourcoats by Sovereign Hobbies as they spray and brush really well and generally are pretty accurate as well.

 

Regards

Colin.

Yes there are nice but dufficult to have when you are overseas.

 

Alain

[MACALAIN]

20 hours ago, wellsprop said:

I love the Hataka blue line paints, theres even a coastal Command specific paint set that includes all the colours you need.

 

They aren't the cheapest, but they have a beautifully smooth finish and very good coverage. 

 

https://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/raf-coastal-command-rn-faa-set-blue-line-acrylic-hataka-bs49-p3465/s3465?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=hataka-raf-coastal-command-rn-faa-set-blue-line-acrylic-htkbs49&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&cid=GBP&glCurrency=GBP&glCountry=GB&gclid=CjwKCAjw3cSSBhBGEiwAVII0Z1V-gsYm4gJ75669j2nwKDkDrYI3y7J9IrKC6Yl718Rb3p3SOXmxwBoCF7EQAvD_BwE

 

Here's one of my builds using the Hataka paint

 

Ben

 

Hataka blue line is nice, but fragile.

 

Alain

[europapete]

Xtracolor from Hannants are good also accurate if you can get them in Canada.

[Scott Hemsley]

Chris (dogsbody), looking at your homemade (AK) color chart makes me think that you've brushed all the colours and I think that I should point out that as nice as AK Real Colours are, my experience with them has shown me that when brushed, they're much darker than when sprayed,  In one case, their Ocean Grey had me thinking it was a mislabelled jar of Dk. Slate Grey when I first opened it, but when sprayed onto a 'paint mule' it came out as the best Ocean Grey that I've come across. 

 

However, since a photo is worth a 1000 words. - behold my 72nd Sabre 6 (converted from the Airfix Sabre F.4).  IMO, it's the best example I have on a completed model, illustrating AK's brush vs spray.  All the Dk. Green on the Sabre is AK's RAF Dk. Green, sprayed .... but notice that dark patch on the nose.  It's the same (AK) RAF Dk. Green, but brushed as a bit of a touch-up (too late in the game to re-spray) in an ongoing battle to get a decent anti-glare panel.  I've since come to accept this flaw with AK paints and now 'test' all their paints that I acquire, either on card stock or 'paint mules' - both brushed and sprayed.   

 

Fortunately, this was the first and only time I've let it happen.  It can be a PITA to re-mask those touch-ups, but I now make sure everything's sprayed.  Despite this, I've adapted to the characteristics of AK paints and they're still my go-to paint. replacing my stocks of MM as they need it.  It's by far, not the only brand of paint I've used since I began modelling in the late-60's, that exhibits this 'behaviour'.

 

Scott

 

   

[wellsprop]

1 hour ago, europapete said:

Xtracolor from Hannants are good also accurate if you can get them in Canada.

 

Ditto this, same for xtracrylix. 

[Patrick Martin]

And while talking of Xtracolor ... anyone in North American figured out the best thinner to use with the paint when they run out of their Hannants supply?

PM

[fishplanebeer]

It might be worth dropping Sovereign an e-mail as I know they try to make Colourcoats available outside of the UK. 

 

They certainly provide them to Naval Models in the Netherlands so you may be able to order them via this route from Belgium?

 

They also distribute to two model shops in the USA, HB Hobbies and White Ensign Models so they may ship to Canada?

 

Regards

Colin.

Edited April 10, 2022 by fishplanebeer

[Dave Swindell]

36 minutes ago, Patrick Martin said:

And while talking of Xtracolor ... anyone in North American figured out the best thinner to use with the paint when they run out of their Hannants supply?

PM

Cellulose/laquer thinner, dries much quicker, not used hannants thinner with their paints for years.

[fishplanebeer]

I've always used Phoenix Precision Paints 'Quick Air Drying Thinners/PQ9' with Xtracolor paint and it works really well and they do ship outside of the UK. However the p&p is likely to be expensive as paint, solvents, thinners and Flux are classified by the UN as dangerous goods so have to be sent securely packed and wrapped and it is this additional packaging that adds to the price.

 

HTH.

 

Regards

Colin.

 

Ps. I did try Hannants thinners but wasn't impressed 

[dogsbody]

4 hours ago, Scott Hemsley said:

Chris (dogsbody), looking at your homemade (AK) color chart makes me think that you've brushed all the colours and I think that I should point out that as nice as AK Real Colours are, my experience with them has shown me that when brushed, they're much darker than when sprayed,  In one case, their Ocean Grey had me thinking it was a mislabelled jar of Dk. Slate Grey when I first opened it, but when sprayed onto a 'paint mule' it came out as the best Ocean Grey that I've come across. 

 

However, since a photo is worth a 1000 words. - behold my 72nd Sabre 6 (converted from the Airfix Sabre F.4).  IMO, it's the best example I have on a completed model, illustrating AK's brush vs spray.  All the Dk. Green on the Sabre is AK's RAF Dk. Green, sprayed .... but notice that dark patch on the nose.  It's the same (AK) RAF Dk. Green, but brushed as a bit of a touch-up (too late in the game to re-spray) in an ongoing battle to get a decent anti-glare panel.  I've since come to accept this flaw with AK paints and now 'test' all their paints that I acquire, either on card stock or 'paint mules' - both brushed and sprayed.   

 

Fortunately, this was the first and only time I've let it happen.  It can be a PITA to re-mask those touch-ups, but I now make sure everything's sprayed.  Despite this, I've adapted to the characteristics of AK paints and they're still my go-to paint. replacing my stocks of MM as they need it.  It's by far, not the only brand of paint I've used since I began modelling in the late-60's, that exhibits this 'behaviour'.

 

Scott

 

   

 

Thanks for that intel, Scott. 

Yes, those colours were brushed on, as it was done recently and the snow hadn't fully melted away from my basement window, so no airbrushing until I can get to the window again.

 

I was wondering about the Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey. They look so dark on that card. I was worrying that they'd be too dark on a 1/72 kit. I was going to look up how to lighten paint for a good scale affect. Now I'll just wait and spray some on my mule.

 

 

 

Chris

[Troy Smith]

5 hours ago, wellsprop said:

same for xtracrylix. 

I'd disagree. I read good things about Xtracrylix,  bought them.  Unless they behave very differently when airbrushed to brushed out, they are not good matches for the RAF museum chips.  

Not tested the Dark Slate Grey or the EDSG, but Dark Green, Dark Earth, Sky, Med Sea Grey and Ocean Grey are not good matches.  

Neither are the AK Interactive, Ben kindly did me a test part of some Hataka Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky, which were not good,   Tamiya have never done a Dark Earth, but I was annoyed to find they are not very batch consistent in colour, and their specific RAF XF81/82/83 are not good either....

I have made some Tamiya mixes I'm happy with, but if their are shift  between batches,  then carefully worked out ratio mix won't then work with the next batch....

 

I have not yet tried some of the new Vallejo Air Bsc matches,  as I'm rather wary buying more paint that is wrong....

 

I still messing about trying to find good acrylic mixes in Vallejo,  oddly enough some little Revell Aqua pots that came with a Lancaster of Dark Green and Dark Earth look to be good,  but they was years old, and I have been meaning to get some current Dark Green and Dark Earth to check.

 

If the AK Real Color ended up different colours when brush and airbrushed, that does not help either.   I'm wary of AK after comments from @Mike Starmer that they match under daylight simulation light, rather than daylight. 

 

All rather annoying when I'd quite like to just be able to have paint without having to work out mixes....  I'm just not a fan of using enamel (well, the solvents and clean up) or I'd just colourcoats....

 

Interestingly we have a new member @Casey whose been working on using a set of basic acrylic colours to generate mixes......  

 

 

[Space Ranger]

5 hours ago, Patrick Martin said:

And while talking of Xtracolor ... anyone in North American figured out the best thinner to use with the paint when they run out of their Hannants supply?

PM

Mineral spirits should work, as should lacquer thinner. Naphtha might even do the trick; it’s a component of Colourcoats’ thinner.

[europapete]

I agree Troy, there are not many reliable matches out there for WW2 RAF. Xtracolor enamels and Soveriegn Colorcoats are the best to my eye that I found so far. 

[stevehnz]

5 hours ago, Patrick Martin said:

And while talking of Xtracolor ... anyone in North American figured out the best thinner to use with the paint when they run out of their Hannants supply?

PM

If you have access to Tamiya enamel thinners, you might try them, they are working very well with my Humbrol paints as well as my Tamiya ones.

Steve.

[Patrick Martin]

5 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

It might be worth dropping Sovereign an e-mail as I know they try to make Colourcoats available outside of the UK. 

 

They certainly provide them to Naval Models in the Netherlands so you may be able to order them via this route from Belgium?

 

They also distribute to two model shops in the USA, HB Hobbies and White Ensign Models so they may ship to Canada?

 

Regards

Colin.

I did last month - no answer

[Patrick Martin]

The Sky sample (on my monitor) does not look like anything like the sky I am used to seeing or illustrating.

On the Hannants/Xtracolour - I have been buying their stuff before Pontius was a Pilot (Pilate), OK the eighties.  Used to be fine when crossing the pond every couple years when you could bring back very small jars of the stuff after asking an airlines's permission each time.  But my two year supply his about to run out.....  So for those that have mixed it to spray, what works the best that can be acquired on the western side of the pond?

PM

[Jeff G]

4 hours ago, dogsbody said:

I was wondering about the Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey. They look so dark on that card. 

 

They do look dark, but if I'm sticking to brush-painting it may be my only option. It can't be stressed enough how important your test strips are - a perfect visual guide!

[Casey]

3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

(...) Tamiya have never done a Dark Earth, but I was annoyed to find they are not very batch consistent in colour, and their specific RAF XF81/82/83 are not good either....

I have made some Tamiya mixes I'm happy with, but if their are shift  between batches,  then carefully worked out ratio mix won't then work with the next batch....

 

Um... They themselves use ratio mixes as guide for their model kits, I hoped the effect would be tiny bit less visible.

 

Do you have any measurements of those? I work on a (rather resource consuming) project to make virtual Tamiya paint mixer, but if they are very inconsistent, it is kind of pointless.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Casey

[Jeff G]

I could always try a mix and match - AK Dark Slate Grey, and then use Tamiya XF-54 (Dark Sea Grey). This way it wouldn't be overly dark...but it feels risky. To answer what @Troy Smith mentioned near the beginning (re: acrylics vs enamels) I use enamels when I have to (and this looks like I have to) but I prefer acrylic. That being said, I looked at the Humbrol EDSG (123) and DSG (224) - does anyone have any experience with how those look? @stevehnz what say you? Have you used either before?

[stevehnz]

Hi @Jeff G, yes is the answer & to my eye, they are both decent matches for the colour chips in the RAF Museum book, the gold standard. Here is a photo with painted out samples of each, the 224 is looking a bit scuffed & pale but that is more a result of my painting than it's actual shade, it is a decent match for the WEM Dark Slate Grey which I've also shown, WEM paints now being the Sovereign Colour Coats mentioned above.

The photo is slightly on the dark side, I think they do well on any model needing a TSS finish. A pity Humbrol only does EDSG in an Acrylic.

Steve.