Breda 39 in Spanish Civil War - Mario Massai

[JWM]

Hi,

At least one Breda 39 was in Spain during SCW, it was a machine used by Mario Massai, the pilot and war correspondent of Italian  journal Corriere della Sera. 

On a Danish web page on SCW I have found this photo: http://equinoxe.dk/SCWaircraft/Media/Ba39.gif , It has I-MASS registration and some Franco side markings added.

Does anybody know more on this machine, about her colors (overall red maybe? - it is said in Wikipedia (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Massai) that his Breda during war in Ethiopia was overall red, but in SCW the red was the color of Republicans...) and perhaps has this photo in better quality? Or any other photo of Breda 39 from SCW ?  Or his Breda from Ethiopia time?

In 2009,  within BM SCW Grup Build @Azul was constructing her but the photos are not opening...

 

BTW - there is a nice photo of another Breda 39, this time it looks like late thirties scheme from Italy

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/law1/ba39/ba39-9.jpg

 

As you may guess I have the Choroszy kit of Breda close to the top of stash

 

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek 

[MACALAIN]

2 hours ago, JWM said:

Hi,

At least one Breda 39 was in Spain during SCW, it was a machine used by Mario Massai, the pilot and war correspondent of Italian  journal Corriere della Sera. 

On a Danish web page on SCW I have found this photo: http://equinoxe.dk/SCWaircraft/Media/Ba39.gif , It has I-MASS registration and some Franco side markings added.

Does anybody know more on this machine, about her colors (overall red maybe? - it is said in Wikipedia (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Massai) that his Breda during war in Ethiopia was overall red, but in SCW the red was the color of Republicans...) and perhaps has this photo in better quality? Or any other photo of Breda 39 from SCW ?  Or his Breda from Ethiopia time?

In 2009,  within BM SCW Grup Build @Azul was constructing her but the photos are not opening...

 

BTW - there is a nice photo of another Breda 39, this time it looks like late thirties scheme from Italy

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/law1/ba39/ba39-9.jpg

 

As you may guess I have the Choroszy kit of Breda close to the top of stash

 

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek 

Sorry, I have no more information about this plane in Spain, just the same picture.

 

Alain

[Bobk]

I have a copy of a long gone build of the Dujin Breda 39 from Master194 french website, which was painted green. The reasoning behind that was explained thusly "Le surfacer est excellent pour traiter cette maladie et aprés ponçage et recouche d'apprêt des caches sont disposés sur le blanc afin de réaliser les marquages avant le passage de la peinture de fond j'ai employé ici un vert Tamiya car avec plusieurs amis espagnols nous avons pensé que cet avion était vert, mais il pouvait tout aussi bien être d'une autre couleur bleu, etc... Je pense que seul le rouge est à écarter car c'aurait eu un petit côté suicidaire à cet endroit et à cette époque" or translated "I used a Tamiya green here because with several Spanish friends we thought that this plane was green, but it could just as well be of another color blue, etc... I think that only the red is to be discarded because it would have had a small suicidal side to this place and this era :" The long gone Aeronet GCE webpage had these two responses,

1. "The 39 was a 39 or a 39s..??? I did not fight, it was the mount of the correspondent of an Italian newspaper...the cigar was painted in a dark color...Blue...??
according to some...green according to others..??? and that it wore the "false" Italian license plate I-MASS but in the existing photo the engine that would define if it was a 39 or a 39 S is not well seen..." 

2."But I still have doubts about the color and I suspect that we will never know...some say blue...(if the Italians used the color blue a lot in private planes) others say green.....( they also used a lot of green...in these same planes...) The original color of the I-MASS.....very interesting of course like the multiple military-civilian hybrids used in our war, I don't think anyone knows..."

.

[JWM]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:47 AM, Bobk said:

I have a copy of a long gone build of the Dujin Breda 39 from Master194 french website, which was painted green. The reasoning behind that was explained thusly "Le surfacer est excellent pour traiter cette maladie et aprés ponçage et recouche d'apprêt des caches sont disposés sur le blanc afin de réaliser les marquages avant le passage de la peinture de fond j'ai employé ici un vert Tamiya car avec plusieurs amis espagnols nous avons pensé que cet avion était vert, mais il pouvait tout aussi bien être d'une autre couleur bleu, etc... Je pense que seul le rouge est à écarter car c'aurait eu un petit côté suicidaire à cet endroit et à cette époque" or translated "I used a Tamiya green here because with several Spanish friends we thought that this plane was green, but it could just as well be of another color blue, etc... I think that only the red is to be discarded because it would have had a small suicidal side to this place and this era :" The long gone Aeronet GCE webpage had these two responses,

1. "The 39 was a 39 or a 39s..??? I did not fight, it was the mount of the correspondent of an Italian newspaper...the cigar was painted in a dark color...Blue...??
according to some...green according to others..??? and that it wore the "false" Italian license plate I-MASS but in the existing photo the engine that would define if it was a 39 or a 39 S is not well seen..." 

2."But I still have doubts about the color and I suspect that we will never know...some say blue...(if the Italians used the color blue a lot in private planes) others say green.....( they also used a lot of green...in these same planes...) The original color of the I-MASS.....very interesting of course like the multiple military-civilian hybrids used in our war, I don't think anyone knows..."

.

Many thanks! I think the civil Italian machines could be green or blue - both were widely in use. About the red - I am not sure how fast the red color became "obvious" sign of Republicans.  In the  book "Aircrafts of the Spanish Civil War 1936-39" by C.F.Crespo and A.M.Perez (issued by Abteilung 502 that year),  on page 59 there is a color profile of Stinson Reliant EC-BCB which was on sides of Republicans until in November 1936, when flew to Mallorca and then was used by Franco army. The airplane presented on the color profile has fuselage in overall red with white decorative stripes and small white registration and silver wings,  which seem to be the original civil scheme from times before the war started. The profile suggests that after joining the rebels   only the St. Andrew black cross outline white and black-white stripes (similar to 1944 invasion markings, but negative: black, white,black, white,black)) were added on wings and fuselage. But the machine retained original overall red fuselage. The Breda used by M.Massai has also a white stripe which might suggest that was not totally over painted and in Ethiopian campaign  she was said to be overall red... (if this was the same Breda) I am still counting on that maybe in M,Massai texts some data on color might have been quoted...

Regards

J-W

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by JWM
typo corrections

[JWM]

Interesting that Mario Massai archive from SCV was sold in 2016

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/spink-investphila/catalogue-id-srspinks10008/lot-0c8c02d4-07df-45a4-a8b3-a6ad00b3f2f7#lotDetails

Maybe there is more info on his Breda... So the truth is out there...

Regards

J-W

 

 

[JWM]

In this book http://fio.es/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Libro-de-Aviones-Españoles-Velarde.pdf there is on page 208 good quality photo of I-MAAS. Some mode details are visible. Still, it is a BW photo...

Regards

J-W

[JWM]

This photo of Breda 39 (just for discussion purposes)

It has white wingtips and St Andrew crosses, white arrow and black (?) engine. There is an emblem on side - I would expect a logo of Corriere de la Serra ? Or maybe some personal emblem?

On spats - is there also arrow from external side only?

Regards

J-W

 

[KRK4m]

Although I have no idea what the green looked like, and what the blue looked like on civilian Italian planes from those years, but if I were in your place (thank God I'm not), I would find a shade of green that would seem blue against other greens, and this shade a blue that will appear green against the background of other blues. And then he mixed them up and painted this model. Among your beloved Humbrols, I see greens 161 and 172 and blues 104 and 230 in these roles. The perfect (50/50) mix of green and blue is British Racing Green (239), but for this Breda it would be far too dark (it is almost black).

Cheers

Michael

[JWM]

The blue is let say like that on Sipa Caproni 

https://v.wpimg.pl/NjYwLmpwYQs4FTpeXwxsHntNbgQZVWJILFV2T18UYVxtQTRCGVk5GncHIEIRWChFMwcpCl9EeFxgT2MeBB4-C3QULR0CGCADdEF6XV4dPg8-VTE

or Caproni Ca 100

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/96951_1425078284.jpg

The green is suppose also a fresh one https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caproni_Ca.100#/media/Plik:Aerodrome_Côme_3.JPG

They were colors not designed for masking the machine, rather bright or fresh, like on civil machines. 

 

 

 

[JWM]

On 8/15/2023 at 5:23 PM, JWM said:

It has white wingtips and St Andrew crosses, white arrow and black (?) engine. There is an emblem on side - I would expect a logo of Corriere de la Serra ? Or maybe some personal emblem?

On spats - is there also arrow from external side only?

Regards

I have just realized that this emblem recalls me the logo of the Camel cigarettes from these days! Could be the simply a logo of a sponsor???