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BS381C:633


AMStreet
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Guys,

 

The 40th anniversary of the Falklands War has prompted me to dig out my Italeri Wessex HAS3.  I'm going to model XP412 "Humphrey" and have come across a puzzle.

 

According to my research Humphrey was painted BS381C:633 RAF Blue Grey but when I went to check to see that I had the right colour I found that my copy of BS381C does not have 633 listed.  Strange, considering it is a well known, standard colour.  

 

I see that Humbrol 96 claims to be this colour but without an official standard I can compare it with I am reluctant to buy some.  I note that Hataka has this colour in its range but at the price £21, is not something I could justify getting, and again is it the right colour?

 

Can anyone confirm that Humbrol96 is correct or will I have to fork out a lot of cash for the Hataka set?

 

Thanks

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IIRC, Humbrol No. 96 is a reasonable match for the RAF uniform blue-grey, but definitely not No. 633 RAF Blue Grey, which is considerably darker. Colourcoats by Sovereign Hobbies has it in their range and as it's matched by spectrophotometry, you're unlikely to find a better enamel.

 

If you're looking for a single paint you could buy from you local model shop, I wonder whether Humbrol No. 77 Navy Blue might be a better match, or at least a good starting point.

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It's a withdrawn standard which happens from time to time when colours are dissused.

 

https://www.e-paint.co.uk/lab-hlc-rgb-lrv-values.asp?cRange=BS+Other&cRef=BS+633&cDescription=RAF+blue-grey

 

CIELAB values are L23.98 a-3.5 b-4.87

 

User @Casey recently posted up here some tabulations of Humbrol paints.

 

CIELAB values for Humbrol 96 are given as L39.34 a-4.46 b-10.59 which gives a significantly lighter and much more saturated colour.

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Just a note about L*a*b values and brightness/saturation of measurements.

 

The e-paint.co.uk site does not mention the specular component being included or excluded from their measurements. Since my measurements were aimed for recipe creation I've used SCI settings on my device, which give lighter results. Humbrol 96 was identified as velvet on my gloss meter with an average read of 6.63 GU so difference is not too dramatic there but for completness - same spectrophotometer SCE measurements of Humbrol 96 paint chip give readouts of: L38.35, a-4.72, b-10.96.

 

There is a nice article of it on X-rite site explaining the difference - https://www.xrite.com/service-support/measuringtruecolorshouldiusesceorsci. The below photo is also also hotlinked from that site. Those paint sample are of the same black color, with different gloss.

 

I could not explain better why I thought adding gloss readouts were important.

 

spacer.png

 

 

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Thanks for all the information.

 

It looks like I will give the Sovereign Hobbies one a go. 

 

I would have preferred to use an acrylic as I find them a lot easier and less messy to use in my airbrush but getting the right colour is more important.  Personally I can't seem to get on with the Xtracolor range and it's a shame they don't do a Xtracrylic one as I find them excellent.  So looking at the price a couple of Sovereign ones may be winging my way shortly. 

 

Oh, Royal Mail.  They don't like delivering to the Isle of Wight for some reason and getting stuff online is turning into a real pain.  They say that the Island is treated the same as anywhere else in the UK but it doesn't seem to be true and that does mean that the price of carriage of some items is not viable for a lot of stuff.  i.e £9.50 postage for an item costing £7.25.

 

So Jamie@sovereignhobbies would you be able to post these paints to me if I order them?

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In acrylic form I wonder how Vallejo's 71-005 compares... it's supposed to represent RAL 5008, that should be a bit bluer than 633 but with similar reflectivity.. problem is that I do not have a Wessex to try it on

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If you like acrylics more and like to experiment you can start with this Tamiya mix:

  • XF-2: Flat White: 3 parts (by volume)
  • XF-8: Flat Blue: 2 parts (by volume)
  • XF-5: Flat Green: 1 part (by volume)
  • XF-7: Flat Red: 1 part (by volume)

It's an mix for Humbrol 96 that I work on in my various Humbrol equivalents project, with an L*: 39.39, a*: -4.32, b*: -8.66. This one had been tested in practice (mixed with real paints, drawn on drawdown card, measured).

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Again thanks for all the information.

 

I think, given all the problems I have getting Royal Mail to deliver stuff, that I will get a tin of the Hataka Blue-grey, if I can get it given that the UK is out of the customs union and getting things from the EU can be tricky.  I'll use it as as a standard so that I can take Casey's recipe and fiddle around with Tamiya paint until I get a match.  That way I will always be able to knock something up if I ever need it again and I will not have to fight customs and excise.

 

That would appear to sort this little problem out but it's a shame that my copy of BS381C is quite new and doesn't have 633.

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Bear in mind Caseys recipe was for Humbrol 96 which is not the same colour as RAF Blue Grey as found on RN Helicopters. Shouldn’t be a problem getting the Hataka paint from Poland - I’ve ordered from that particular Polish EBay shop without difficulty before. But looks like there are also UK stockists who would sell just that paint if you do a bit of Googling 😃

 

Pat

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PM Models sell the Hataka paint, unfortunately they only do the Orange Line (lacquer), and it's out of stock.

 

https://www.pmmodelsuk.com/hataka-orange-line/hataka-htk-c145-raf-blue-grey-bs381c633?rq=633

 

I ordered many times direct from Hataka's website and, aside from a couple extra pennies for international postage it was really easy. Unfortunately, since our new arrangement with our continental neighbours, I haven't been able to order from their website without having to use the fully tracked and insured postage option (£20+!).

 

Models for sale stock many Hataka paint sets (blue red and orange) - but unfortunately not individual paints. The Hataka SAR set does include the 633, but also many other paints... Not ideal if you're just after one!

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7 hours ago, Selwyn said:

You could also go to your local paint supplier who will make up a rattle can for you to any BS standard.

 

Selwyn

Except B&Q... Whilst they advertise a paint matching service, they will only match using valspar/RAL system. We recently tried getting some BS matched paint from our local B&Q based on the fact that they advertised a paint matching service, only to find that they would only match using the RAL colour system, so a specific BS spec paint would not be covered. We also tried the local Dulux store, again, would not match to BS, only a 'close match' in the Dulux colour palette. We eventually had to go to a Brewers paint supplier to get a BS paint match!

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Thanks for all the replies.

 

I'm going to get an Xtracolor tin from Hannants just to use as a standard. 

 

I will then use Casey's recipe as a basis to get me near to the final colour and mix and match until I work out what it needs to be. 

 

I agree with wellsprop.  Buying things from EU countries is now a bit of a problem what with customs and excise declarations and all the convoluted steps you now have to take, so I'll give it a miss. 

 

I think that I can get near enough to the colour I need , and after all what a/c was ever the "right" colour after a few months on active service?

 

There is another question I need to pose but I will start another thread for that as I think that this one has now reached its end.

 

Thanks for all the help.

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8 hours ago, treker_ed said:

Except B&Q... Whilst they advertise a paint matching service, they will only match using valspar/RAL system. We recently tried getting some BS matched paint from our local B&Q based on the fact that they advertised a paint matching service, only to find that they would only match using the RAL colour system, so a specific BS spec paint would not be covered. We also tried the local Dulux store, again, would not match to BS, only a 'close match' in the Dulux colour palette. We eventually had to go to a Brewers paint supplier to get a BS paint match!

Luckily I have a supplier quite local in Stockport who will happily match to any standard. There are several around the country who do it, you just have to search the internet.

 

Selwyn

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1 hour ago, junglierating said:

Out of interest would this be the same colour for pinger Sea Kings ....i.e.mk2 and mk5?

 

Yes, that's the one. Used on Sea Kings for many years and on the Wessexc before them (and the Wasp, the Gannet COD and maybe some other aircraft). Back in the days when low flying things tended to be painted in dark colours and before everything turned medium or light grey... 😂

 

2 hours ago, AMStreet said:

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I'm going to get an Xtracolor tin from Hannants just to use as a standard. 

 

I will then use Casey's recipe as a basis to get me near to the final colour and mix and match until I work out what it needs to be. 

 

I agree with wellsprop.  Buying things from EU countries is now a bit of a problem what with customs and excise declarations and all the convoluted steps you now have to take, so I'll give it a miss. 

 

I think that I can get near enough to the colour I need , and after all what a/c was ever the "right" colour after a few months on active service?

 

There is another question I need to pose but I will start another thread for that as I think that this one has now reached its end.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Keep in mind that the mix proposed is for Humbrol 96 and this has very little to do with 633 RAF Blue Grey ! They are both blue-greys, they both carry the name RAF (although 633 used on aircraft was mainly FAA...) but are not the same colour at all.

633 is supposed to be this

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Westland_Sea_King_HAS5,_UK_-_Navy_AN2114871.jpg

 

Humbrol 96 is meant to represent this

 

http://www.uniforium.co.uk/raf-no-1-uniform.html

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Keep in mind that the mix proposed is for Humbrol 96 and this has very little to do with 633 RAF Blue Grey !

Yes, I know. 

 

What I should have made clear is that I will be taking Casey's colour and then adding/subtracting to reach the final 633, or thereabouts.  That way I can get into the rough area without having to start from scratch and using the Xtracolor I will refine it and make a note of the final mix so that I can reproduce it again if I ever need to mix up another batch.  I will be using acrylics as working with enamels is proving to be a nuisance, messy, smelly and it takes too long to cure.

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3 hours ago, junglierating said:

Out of interest would this be the same colour for pinger Sea Kings ....i.e.mk2 and mk5?

Yes, I beleive it was chosen as the nearest equivalent to US Sea Blue in the then MAP/MoS (can't recall which) range. (Ian Huntley wrote of a 'British' produced Sea Blue Gloss that was replaced by RAF B-G)

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3 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

Yes, I beleive it was chosen as the nearest equivalent to US Sea Blue in the then MAP/MoS (can't recall which) range. (Ian Huntley wrote of a 'British' produced Sea Blue Gloss that was replaced by RAF B-G)

 

A bit OT, I wonder why then Oxford Blue was chosen for the Lynx... isn't Oxford Blue closer to US Sea Blue ? Was Blue Grey found not ideal for some reason on the Lynx ?

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

A bit OT, I wonder why then Oxford Blue was chosen for the Lynx... isn't Oxford Blue closer to US Sea Blue ? Was Blue Grey found not ideal for some reason on the Lynx ?

That's something that's puzzled me for a long time!  Oxford Blue is brighter/more blue that RAF BG, Post-War US Sea Blue is quite a dark colour, I think RAF B-G is closer

 

There's always the possibility it was because someone in the RN objected to their helicopters being painted in a colour called 'RAF'.....

 

Edited by Dave Fleming
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6 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

A bit OT, I wonder why then Oxford Blue was chosen for the Lynx... isn't Oxford Blue closer to US Sea Blue ? Was Blue Grey found not ideal for some reason on the Lynx ?

 

The Lynx is much too pretty to be painted in some dull greyish blue.

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