LDM 1:48 Mew Gull, Christen Eagle, ASK13 (white metal)

[Farmer matt]

Hey thats a picture! Not 100% sure how to do it again, but its there. 

These are the masters for a series of desktop models produced towards the end of the LDM era, which apart from the Jodel I am not sure were properly marketed, if at all in some cases probably not even cast.

The real problem is that they all have a 125mm wingspan ,about 5 inches, and are to some bizarre scales like 1/173 or something. Where else woud you find a range where the Saro Princess is dwarfed by a Jodel?

Anyway I thought some of you might like to see them, and I have finally at least got one photo posted of my own accord!

Don' t hold your breath though.

Thanks for looking, Matt.

[Farmer matt]

Malc, I had not seen your post when I did the above just now.

These were in a seperate box, but yes the Britmodeller Easter quiz may be just around the corner. I will try and sort out a suitable selection for a couple of pics when I get a bit of clear time.

Matt.

[Malc2]

Sure to be betta than Wordle!

 

M.

[Farmer matt]

We have been bumbling about in the circuit for a while now, so lets try and gain some altitude before we get too distracted and the scenery makes an unscheduled appearance.

 

As you have seen, construction was already at an advanced stage when this thread was begun. The build notes that follow will therefore be a fast forward precis of events so far, so I must stress that patience is your friend with these kits. Do not let the low parts count lure you into trying to knock the entire build out whilst SWMBO is watching Corrie. It will end in tears, not to mention a disdainful look - you know the one.

When using 2-part adhesive, the bond is pretty firm quite quickly, but it can take a day to cure fully, so unneccesary handling is to be avoided. It is wise to strap up the joins, (I use our favourite yellow masking tape) and/or support pieces with tac. Once you are sure everything is where you want it, put it down and walk away. If you do notice something has slipped a little, you can often still retrieve it after a couple of hours, but major movement will simply break the bond.

 

An important property of white metal that you will encounter is that it is quite soft, and thinner parts can be prone to accidental bending during assembly or even cleaning up.

The key distinction is BEND not flex. Therefore once a part is out of alignment it will not return to neutral of its own accord, and must be gently co-erced back into shape. You do not need heat or anything, just firm but gentle finger pressure. However, you must be careful not to go too far and start creating a bend the other way, as you risk tearing the metal, and that is a real pain to sort out even if you don't break the part.

 

The build notes will follow soon I promise, but I confess that not only had I under estimated this part of the task, the debacle with the photos was really hacking me off so I lost focus a bit.

Thankyou for staying with this so far

 

Matt

Edited April 13, 2022 by Farmer matt
spelling

[TEXANTOMCAT]

Fab thread I love LDM models I have three Comper Swifts and a Cierva- one of the Compers has a turned brass U.K. swivel joint and wooden stand with LDM plaque - would kill for a Chilton DW1if anyone wants to swap a Swift- I have the Arctic Decals sets and masks for them….

 

TT

[Farmer matt]

Welcome on board, Texan Tomcat.

 

Sorry if it shatters any illusions, but the stands were converted commercial items, whilst the swivels were culled from pen holders- remember those? Looked the part though.

However, to my knowledge the stands were only supplied with fully built models, and the plaques were not included with kits. As the Comper Swift was an early release that would be a round stand and horseshoe plaque? Later ones were wedges with rectangular plaques. If your model was in a robust square card box with foam inserts, thats original.

With the obvious caveat of me not having seen your model, if it was one of those originally supplied in built up form, then it was personally constructed and finished by Brian himself.

 

Please feel free to share pics here so those not familiar with the range can get an idea.

That goes for anyone else too, if you have any LDM goodies this is surely a good time and place to give them an airing!

 

Regards, Matt.

[Farmer matt]

CHRISTEN EAGLE 1 sports biplane

IMG_7139 by Matt Farmer, on Flickr

[Zephyr]

Wonderful to see these models, I'm a glider pilot (an occasional pastime these days unfortunately) and have a very few but pleasant hours in ASK-13s.

I also remember seeing the LDM ads and wishing I could afford some of the models.

Greggles' (Greggleses?  I don't know...) Knight Twister build was a gem and I'm looking forward to seeing more on the K-13 and Eagle.

 

[Farmer matt]

CHRISTEN EAGLE 1    LDM 1:48 white metal kit

EDIT additional photos

 

The diminutive Christen Eagle is well known for the colourful feather graphics worn by many examples. Comprehensive decals for this scheme are included in the kit, and I have taken the precaution of scanning them in case of SNAFUs, but that is a long way ahead of us yet 

This kit represents the single-seat Christen Eagle 1, which utilises the same basic airframe as its two-seat parent, but with some aerodynamic refinements. These include running the aileron control linkages within the outer struts rather than externally. Fortuitously this is mentioned in the instructions, as I had thought it rather a strange omission to make on the model!

Hopefully the assembly diagram from the instructions pictured above will help you visualise the parts breakdown of the kit, and also give some clue as to what I am talking about.

EDIT photo of original master

cemaster by Matt Farmer, on Flickr

 

The build commences with the lower fuselage, which is cast with the lower wings in situ. This had aquired a bend to starboard (easily fixed), and some damage to the inboard trailing edge of the port wing. That would have been simple enough if attended to at this point (cut out damage, add new metal, blend - like you would a rusted wheelarch on your car), but my initial focus was on understanding the kit rather than aiming at a full build, and also no-one was watching then!

It still niggles me, and could still be done, but would be a faff at this late stage.

There is a clearly marked disc inside the part at midspan, which should be drilled out now to accomodate a stand when finished. However, it can also be really useful simply to drop the model on a pole a times both during construction and paint. 

Next for attention is the seat which comes with a control column, bringing us to our first and only real decision of the build, because Johnny pilot is also grasping a control column. If you are going to use him, remove the one attached to the seat, if not- don't. Simple. Johnny himself can be dropped in later, and actually CAN be (certain mainstream makers of now amputee aircrew please note ), but the seat is best placed in the lower fuselage now, taking care by test fitting to ensure it will locate beneath the headrest which is moulded into the upper fuselage.

Seat safely in, the upper fuselage is next, and this casting incorporates the tail surfaces. The fuselage halves are stepped at the cowling, which greatly assists with correct location.

EDIT photo of original master

cemaster2 by Matt Farmer, on Flickr

The prop does not need to be inserted yet, but it is worth checking the hole for fit at this juncture. The prop assembly is designed to enable rotation, so there is a shaft, sleeve and cap arrangement, it is the sleeve that needs to fit the front of your airframe. 

I am minded to follow Greggles lead with regards to the prop and remove the blades. It looks so effective, and I really do not like prop-blur. Not commited yet though.

Next up is the zinc undecarriage, which had a few alignment issues but located easily enough.

Now we have at least half of an aeroplane already, and it is time to tidy the seams before we move on to the 'interesting' part of the build. Out of laziness I use the same modelling filler for wm as for plastic or any other medium, but it seems to function just as well. A little less adhesion but that can actually be helpful. With a white metal build you can be a bit freer with the grit paper or files when cleaning up without worrying about damaging the surface, but unless you have really slathered the putty on or got a step for some reason, you should not need anything coarser than 400 grit wet+dry paper here.

 

I think this is a convenient point at which to pause, so I am going to consume some seasonal chocolate goodies. Meanwhile, I invite you to wander over to the Aviation Chat area, where you will find some light entertainment in the form of the ' LDM master ID challenge'.

I do not know how to make a link so please tell me how and I will give it a go.

 

Happy Easter to you all. 

Matt.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Farmer matt
Add photos

[Farmer matt]

Zephyr, thankyou for your interest. A recurring theme is developing here of replies whilst I am typing! 

I will get to the ASK soon! As mentioned before, these kits were not cheap, and so not a casual purchase, especially as many would have been wary of them being metal rather than plastic, as indeed they still are.

Matt.

[TEXANTOMCAT]

Hi Matt great stuff thanks for the info- yes it has a horseshoe plaque- 

 

if you’d like to have one of your Dads models back and would exchange a Chilton DW for it please let me know 🙂

 

looking forward to see what else turns up on this thread!

 

ATB

 

TT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Farmer matt]

Since we are about to encounter the phenonomen or however you spell it in the CE build, I am now going to mention shrinkage. 

There is now far greater awareness of shrinkage than in the past, due to the numbers trying resin printing and sometimes getting unexpected results from their carefully calculated programs. Put simply, it can often seem like 'apples in, pears out' which can be confounding to say the least.

 

The alloy used for white metal casting is poured into the mould in a molten state and spun as it cools to solidity. In cooling, it shrinks by approximately 3% volume, and a good pattern maker will need to allow for this by making his master slightly oversized. However the dimensional effect on any given piece is hard to calculate, as factors such as the shape and thickness of the part come into play. Additionally, the precise composition of the alloy, temperature at pour and cooling rate will also influence the result.

It is therefore pretty much an educated guess on the part of the pattern maker as to what will happen, and this can of course be complicated by the knowledge that a piece will be expected to join nicely with another entirely different part (ie to make a kit). So due respect.

The dark arts of mould making and centrifugal casting are concisely explained in a 2011 book by Ray Strutt and Davis Wright; A History of White Metal Transport Modelling

ISBN : 978 1 907 292 40 8

which documents what was really a one generation cottage industry.

 

[Farmer matt]

Thanks TT,

I wish I had a Chilton myself ,that was one of my favourites.

These two kits, and the masters are all I have. However that decision was made many years back, and I am still pretty content with it.

Now, if someone turns up an unbuilt  1:144 TSR2, I  would be sorely tempted. Really don't know how many of those made it into the wild, but certainly not many.

Funny how you re-evaluate stuff over time, but I find now I can view things almost as a third party its a better perspective.

I always respected Brian's talent and his work, but living amongst it all was too claustrophobic.

It has been hugely gratifying to learn of the affection that still remains for the LDM range all these years later.

Regards,

Matt.

[TEXANTOMCAT]

Coolio ok mate am along for the ride anyway! I did see a built TSR2 on eBay a few years ago and that was a surprise as I didn’t know they did one! 
 

TT

[Farmer matt]

TT, and Malc2 as he asked earlier too,

 

Whilst it may seem a bit random in the context of the rest of the range, TSR2 was a subject close to Brian's heart as he was apprenticed to Vickers at Weybridge and went on to work in the drawing office on TSR2. The LDM model was mainly available as a built up on a plinth with a case, released to mark an anniversary of the projects cancellation, so I would say 25th 1990 would be the one. Some went out in kit form too, but I think the main effort was towards the finished examples.

At that time your only options for a TSR2 were a couple of vac forms, which I seem to recall lay somewhere between challenging and challenged, depending on your viewpoint.

Who would have imagined a mainstream Airfix release, not just in 1:72 (pretty good if needing work) but 1:48 too (oddly not so great). Not to mention a fully finished diecast from the same stable (Corgi). There are also 1:144 and 1:200 from smaller makers too, so spoilt for choice!

So a left field excursion, but for a reason.

 

Regards, Matt.

[Farmer matt]

CHRISTEN EAGLE 1 continued

 

Moving on with the Christen Eagle build, the next task is to attach the centre-section strut cradle, which thankfully is one piece and locates quite willingly onto the fuselage. A line in the instructions reads 'due to some variation in castings, this unit may need slight packing or filling to acheive a good fit', but for now ignorance was bliss.

Now we reach the point where if you are clever and doing things properly like Greggles, you construct a jig. Or you can wish you had a detachable third thumb and start juggling, which was the method employed here to test fit the outer struts and upper wing. The struts themselves are clearly handed, and their location is engineered in such a way that they do actually want to acheive the correct position.

Two things were determined from the juggling act. Firstly, the key to obtaining the correct geometry lay in the amount of dihedral of the lower wings. Once that was suitably adjusted life became much easier. Secondly, the centre-section struts were going to fall woefully short of their objective. To address this, the longitudenal upper bar was cut away from its position × between × the apexes of the strut triangles, and replaced with plastic strip resting × atop × the apexes. This was then shaped in situ to allow for the section of the upper wing. It is not perfect, but preferable to a 2mm gap.

That issue resolved, attention returned to the outer struts, which were glued to the lower wing and packed in place with tac. The upper wing was then dropped on (but not attached) just to help keep the struts in line while the adhesive cured.

After some cleaning up, I next took the opportunity to give a shot of primer to the underside of the upper wing, and the upper surfaces of our main component since these areas will be shielded from coverage with the wing in place and getting at least some paint there now helps out later.

Some of you may prefer to leave actually gluing the upper wing in place until much later in the build, but I elected to do it now. Looking at the decal sheet I may regret that, but we'll see.

Once glued, the wing was strapped down with masking tape, wrapped around from below the lower wing, over the top and back under, two strips either side. When I was certain everything looked OK, I put the model down and left well alone for a day.

Now we have the main part of construction completed,  and after a tidy up it is time for an all over coat of primer to check for any issues. I use automotive paints from a rattle can, in this case yellow 'filler' primer, which has a slightly thicker consistency than the regular stuff. It won't fill trenches but does help with minor surface imperfections.

Automotive aerosol paints are now usually acrylic based rather than cellulose. However you should still ensure there is proper air extraction and ventilation, and wear a mask. Who would have thought that would become a thing IRL too!

 

[Kitkent]

This takes me back a bit! I built the LDM Percival Mew Gull for a friend in about 1986 or 87. It was an enjoyable experience as I started making the 1/43 metal car kits in 1981 and this is not very much different.I don’t remember any problems and my friend and myself were very pleased with the completed model. Unfortunately I never got to see another LDM kit but I was very impressed with the Mew Gull and It started my interest in interw ar era aircraft kits.  I do have an unmade resin 1/72 resin Mew Gull however in the stash and I still make 1/43 metal racecar kits! 
A very interesting thread, Chris.

[Farmer matt]

Thankyou Chris,

It is funny how the hobby has developed so that car and transport guys are usually happier working in metal, whilst the aircraft side is wedded quite firmly to plastic.

Did you ever build one of the LDM record cars?

 

Regards, Matt

[Kitkent]

Unfortunately Matt I never got my hands on another LDM kit,I remember now the adverts for the record cars though.Yes I started with the metal 1/43 kits,and am still making metal and resin car kits,but it’s the plastic aircraft ones that scare me! Chris.

[Farmer matt]

CHRISTEN EAGLE 1 continued

 

This passage will bring the Christen Eagle to its present state, and raises the eternal dilemma of just when is it best to attach the break-offables. Personally, if a glue laden antenna is going to make an escape bid by slithering down the fuselage, I would rather it happened now than have to try and salvage a finished paint job.

The above was immediately vindicated by the tail-wheel, which was initially determined to rest against the port stabilisor, until some attention with a file sorted the location points and it has since stayed in place.

Some wire is provided in the kit, and it looks like there is enough for the pitot, radio aerial and tailplane bracing wires. The last of those will be near the front of the queue when work recommences.

There is a helpful notch in the leading edge of the port lower wing to position the pitot, and I enlarged this slightly to aid attachment which just needed a drop of superglue.

No such provision is made for the aerial, so I filed a slight flat at the appropiate spot on the fuselage spine. First time lucky was a false dawn, and the aerial is now in its third location slightly off centre. I have left it for now on the grounds that I will probably get a fourth shot at it in the near future!

 

Although there is obviously a way to go before a finished model, the basic build of the Christen Eagle is now complete, so after a couple of brief diversions I will turn attention to the ASK13.

Thankyou to all of you who have shown an interest so far, I hope you will stay aboard. Meanwhile, if any of you have any LDM goodies lying around please do share them here, built or not.

Matt.

[Farmer matt]

ldmproductlist by Matt Farmer, on Flickr

COMPLETE LDM PRODUCT LISTING

Brian Lawrence produced a huge number of patterns for various manufacturers, across a wide range of subject, and many of these bear either the LDM oval logo, or just the three letters, as an adjunct to the producers 

Edit. This list is now in the RESOURCES  sub forum

 

 

img20220418_10230721 by Matt Farmer, on Flickr

 

[Malc2]

More great posts, thanks! Its interesting to see how big the original decal art work was.

For pitot tubes - or any small parts I prefer to drill a hole.

Then after primer and top coat the part can be added with a tiny drop of glue in to a positive location.

Sometimes with paint and primer making the hole smaller the part can just be pushed in to place.

 

M.

[Farmer matt]

Hi, Malc

Using the paint as a sleeve is a plan, its just that I tend to drop the part before I hit the hole!

The decal artwork was prepared at 4:1. That in the pic is the layout sheet, which once finalised would be securely taped down, and then individual elements would be traced in ink onto (usually four) overlaying acetate sheets, segregated according to the desired print colour. A further sheet was then traced to give the required position of the varnished coat.

The acetates were then photographed and reduced by the printers to create their stencils for the screen-printing process.

Most, if not all, LDM decals were printed by KayLee of Long Eaton (Nottingham).

These skilled and time consuming methods of producing artwork and decals are now all but redundant, as anyone with access to a PC and printer can now produce good quality multicolour items with ease to their personal requirement.

 

Now a final distraction before I get to the ASK13 build notes, and this should appeal to the glider enthusiasts amongst you.

053 by Matt Farmer, on Flickr

This is a sports glider known as Sigma, and was an industry funded research project conceived to investigate the use of Fowler flaps in conjunction with a high aspect ratio wing.

The idea was that the deployed flaps would accelerate climb rate, and would then be retracted so the glider would speed to victory. Unfortunately, actuation was hindered by the flexing of the wing, and also the 'clean' glider was not as fast as hoped.

The connection to our story here is that, following an initial short term contract for detail design work, Brian became build lead on the project in 1971/2, and saw the airframe through to rollout and first flight. 

This model was built by him during that time, and has a wingspan of around 3ft. Unfortunately long since sold on, but I thought it may be of interest.

Matt.

[Markh-75]

Very interesting topic, I didnt know there were white metal kits! I have a few diecast models but not as kits. I have repaired one or two diecast aircraft and its normally the plastic parts I adjust rather than the metal when putting back together. But looking good!

[Farmer matt]

Thankyou, Markh75,

Metal kits are a bit of a niche in the aviation side of modelling, but the road guys were really well catered for. In many ways the explosion in diecast availability killed demand all round, because a highly detailed finished model was suddenly a fraction of the cost of a metal kit. 

The metal used in the diecast models is usually mazac which is much harder than that used for the kits. 

I have seen in the armour section that you have done some lorries etc, and a white metal truck may be a good place to start., if you wanted to the medium a try.

Matt.