LDM 1:48 Mew Gull, Christen Eagle, ASK13 (white metal)

[Farmer matt]

Hello to you all,

 

Some of you may be familiar with a range of white metal kits produced in the 1970s/80s by Lawrence Designs and Models, (LDM). Brian Lawrence was a freelance pattern maker of some repute, supplying brass masters to the then thriving white metal kit industry across a broad spectrum of subjects. The introduction of his own range was a natural extension of this work, and was also an outlet for his lifelong aviation interest.

Some of the subjects chosen were rather less than mainstream, and although most, if not all, of the types featured in the LDM range have since been kitted elsewhere, such availability was undreamt of at the time.

I have a personal interest in this, as Brian was my father. The two kits that will feature here (Christen Eagle and ASK13) were put aside years ago more to show what he did than with any intent of building them, and they have lurked at the back of various cupboards until recently. The decision to build was sparked by a random internet search which led me to greggles.w 's build of the LDM Knight Twister here on Britmodeller ((Another) White Knight, Knight Twister Imperial.) There you can see how things should be done.

This will not be a normal WIP thread to begin with, as the builds are quite far along, so my intention is to do three initial posts.

This one as an introduction, a second with photos showing the current state of play, and thirdly a bit more about how the builds have gone so far. Then if anyone is interested we will see how things progress (probably slowly).

If part two (the photos) does not appear for a while, it is because I am really struggling to get them on here, so please be patient with the newbie. I suspect even my border collie could do it, but alas she has more important things to do apparently.

Regards,

Matt

 

 

EDIT. This, as you can gather from the above was my first thread on here. In the course of it I retrospectively inserted some photos of the brass master parts for the CE and ASK, to illustrate the breakdown. 

Additionaly, I posted pictures of some other LDM items within tbe thread.

Some of these photos have since been removed so as not to duplicate content that can now be found in my resource thread, which is linked at the bottom of my posts.

Thankyou for your interest

 

Matt

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Farmer matt
Update

[Malc2]

Hi Matt,

Welcome!

Looking forward to part 2.

 

Malc.

[bigbadbadge]

Yes me too, loved watching Greggles build .

Chris

[Farmer matt]

Sorry guys this may take longer than anticipated. Just had a genuine professional computer guy attempt this, and he could not work out which bits of code were causing a block. Also he was less than impressed at my tablet as a means of doing it.

He has shown me lots more than I knew to do things, but still no pics here!!

 

[Farmer matt]

So we have suffered an engine failure on take off, and failed to relight. Rather than punch out or wait to investigate the scenery, lets try and stay airborne in the circuit for a while.

Since the photos intended for this thread are the only ones on my flickr. account, they can be viewed there if anyone wants to do so. 

There are apparently 25 Matt Farmers on flickr, so it is this account...

I think that has made a link!

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Farmer matt
Wrong post

[Dave Swindell]

 

[Farmer matt]

 

So, with thanks to Dave Swindell, part two is with us, and the crash tenders can be stood down for now. Meanwhile, this is a kind of part 1A.

 

Despite, or perhaps because of, the fact that I grew up surrounded by these models, I had never built one of Brian's kits before. The passage of time means I can now view them in much the same way as any other kit in the stash.

It may seem obvious, but the first thing you notice compared to plastic or resin is the weight. Modern eyes may feel short changed by the low parts count and lack of PE, but it certainly speeds construction. Many current kits have more parts for the cockpit alone than these two entire boxings combined, and to be honest my thumbs can't cope with that.

Those parts that you do get have obviously been engineered with  consideration for not just  the builder, but for the limitations of the moulding and casting processes. Unlike plastic or resin, there are no sprues, runners, or casting blocks to deal with.

And now, a health and safety notice. I know we are all adults here, but white metal has a high lead content, so you may want to wear gloves because if your hands are black after handling the parts, thats lead and it is not good for you.

All parts should be given a good scrub to start with, as otherwise glue and paint adhesion will be compromised.

Although you can use CA 'super' glue for assembly, it is really only suited to small parts. It is best to use two-part epoxy resin, as not only is the join less brittle, you get a fair bit of adjustment time. You do have to be a bit watchful of the mix, 

as you can end up with it just not curing.

If you are really clever you can use low-melt solder, but that is a whole different ball game so we won't be going there.

Incidentally, these kits were not exactly cheap in their time (£14.95 for the CE, and £23.50 for the ASK in 1990, plus postage) and I remember there were persistent problems with people expecting a fully finished model for their money. Now where's the fun in that?

 

If you have stayed on board so far, thankyou.

Matt

Edited April 10, 2022 by Farmer matt
Amend text

[Farmer matt]

Thankyou Dave Swindell, you are a lifesaver! You caught me midway through typing the above so I did not see what you had done. I am struggling with this a bit so your help is truly appreciated. 

Matt

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Farmer matt said:

Thankyou Dave Swindell, you are a lifesaver! You caught me midway through typing the above so I did not see what you had done. I am struggling with this a bit so your help is truly appreciated. 

Matt

No problem Matt, I've not seen one of these kits being built before so I was curious 🙂

I don't know what hardware/software setup you're using but I did the above on Microsoft Edge

Find the desired picture in flickr

Right click on the image and select "copy image link"

Go to your Britmodeller post editor and right click where you want the image to go and select "Paste as plain text" (or press control/shift/V)

Press enter

Your image should first appear briefly as a link and then the image should appear

Repeat as necessary

 

 

[Malc2]

Hi Matt,

 

Do you know how many kits of each plane your Dad produced?

They do pop up on the bay of E frequently, there is a Flying Flea and Pitts on now.

Some prototypes were up recently although I can't find the listing again.

 

Malc.

 

 

[bigbadbadge]

The kits are looking good and I like your display idea for the Christen Eagle.  That's going to look sweet.

The low melt solder is not as bad as you think, I used to fear it and since having a go I am happy to use.  Just use a variable temp soldering iron and set it lower than the melting point of the metal kit parts and you are good to go.   

Hope you can sort your image issues. 

Chris

[Farmer matt]

Hi Malc,

If you had asked 25 years ago, I could have told you exactly, as there was a chart on the wall!

I doubt any went above 300 at most except the S2A. There were no real duds sales-wise, but I don't think the ASK or Deperdussin were ever properly brought to market so they would be probably dozens.

The first incarnation of the S2A was as a finished built up only in Rothmans colours, with many going the tobacco co as promos. The S1 also had built up runs for Marlboro and Dunlop, agsin as promos.

Not sure what is meant by prototype, because that would be the brass master, and not on any well known site.

Thankyou for your support in this endeavour,

Matt

[Farmer matt]

Thanks Chris, I was getting ahead of myself with the stand!!

[Fritag]

Nice back story Matt.  How lovely to be making kits produced by your Dad all those years ago.

 

I’ve always thought the Christen Eagle was a super looking little aircraft and  the kit and your build is doing it full justice 

 

I’ve no skills at all with white metal so this is all jolly interesting.  Watching with great enjoyment.

 

 

[Malc2]

2 hours ago, Farmer matt said:

Hi Malc,

If you had asked 25 years ago, I could have told you exactly, as there was a chart on the wall!

I doubt any went above 300 at most except the S2A. There were no real duds sales-wise, but I don't think the ASK or Deperdussin were ever properly brought to market so they would be probably dozens.

Interesting, thanks!

 

2 hours ago, Farmer matt said:

Not sure what is meant by prototype, because that would be the brass master, and not on any well known site.

Sorry for not being clear, the kits that appeared a few weeks ago on Ebay were in boxes with no illustration and had handwritten labels which I think included the word 'prototype', which in this case probably meant first out of the moulds.

I take your point about the brass masters.

Edit - found them! (says Sample, not prototype)

This guy had several for sale, including some LSR cars, this is the S2A:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-48-LDM-Whitemetal-Jubilee-Duo-Pitts-S2A-Special-Kit-Rare-Sample-kit-/234483925429?hash=item369854c1b5%3Ag%3AMSAAAOSwf5BiCUil&nma=true&si=xs8bvFJ36muUKZIxqZHc17EMJU0%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Malc.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Malc2

[Bell209]

These are looking nice! I had my first glider flight in an ASK-13 and ended up with quite a few hours in them before moving onto the Twin Astir. I wouldn't mind a model of one myself...

[Farmer matt]

Hi Malc, thanks for the link. That is a genuine review sample, as that is Dad's handwriting on the box.

An interesting piece, and for once not seller's hype. The Jubilee Duo boxing was the first kit release of the S2A.

Probably originally tucked away by a magazine editor, and just goes to show what randomly does survive.

Hope it gets built now though!

Matt

 

 

[Farmer matt]

Fritag, thanks for your interest.I havent worked out the quote thing on here yet.

Like the advice from Chris with the soldering, there really is nothing to be scared of with a wm kit, just start with something simple (so not a biplane preferably!) and be prepared to learn the first time rather than aiming at a masterpiece. 

Matt.

[Farmer matt]

Bell 209, thankyou for your interest, along with the rest of you who have done the heart symbol thing which is another bit I havent fully grasped. Learning curve all round.

Matt

[Malc2]

Hi Matt,

 

Just found this other thread right here on BritModeller, the OP was collecting and building LDM kits. I love the Miles Hawk Speed 6. Much Want!!

Sadly he has not posted on BM since 2012.

 

Malc.

[Farmer matt]

Hi Malc, 

Thankyou for that link, I have bookmarked that page and please leave the link on here so the others can see what can be acheived with these kits. I wonder if he ever posted his Christen Eagle ?.

One of the replies to that post mentions a 1/72 racer and Spitfire, they were definitely NOT LDM products. Brian was very tetchy about the prospect of ever modelling a Spitfire, and it was very late in the day before just a tie pin was produced for another firm.

You may notice that the Speed Six is conspicuous in its absence from the sales list in my pics. I do not know if there was an issue with the casting (it is quite a chunk of metal), or it had just sold out of stock and another casting run was not justifiable.

Interestingly, although the kits were very much engineered to empower the 'average modeller' , for the Speed Six along with the Caudron, Mew Gull and Knight Twister, it was assumed that you would be happy taking a heavy duty file to the fuselage to create some variants.

Many racers were modified for pretty much every season, or even every race, so narrowing down a spec is a bit of a minefield as Greggles has discovered with his KT.

 

Matt.

[Malc2]

No problem.

What happened to the original brass masters?

Do you still have them?

 

M.

[Farmer matt]

Long story short, I have a box of many brass pieces that may or may not add up to an unknown number of airframes.

What I do know is that the TSR2 is not amongst them, because thats the one I was looking for. (And its rather more pointy than the others so you can tell).

Perhaps that should have been a lockdown project.

 

Matt.

[Malc2]

I did not know about the TSR2, were there any other 'unpublished' models?

A photo of the brass masters would also be interesting to see.

We could have a very entertaining time identifying the parts!

 

Malc.

[Farmer matt]

aa LDM125series by Matt Farmer, on Flickr