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HP Victor prototype


BritJet

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Later starting than I'd hoped but the plan is to do this;

 

40107-10e25b5d4a1eec41a27024b19ea47883.j

 

I'll be using the old Matchbox Victor K2 as re-issued by Revell with the Flightpath B1 conversion, some scratchbuilding and lots of chopping up of perfectly good plastic kit parts.

 

The list of things to alter includes;

  • Shortening the forward fuselage 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Re-shape the tip of the nose 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Remove the under fuselage hose drum unit and fill the gap 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Make the fin taller - probably make a new one as it's likely to be easier than altering the kit parts 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Use the Flightpath B1 resin engine/intakes in place of the larger kit parts 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Remove the wing mounted pods and fill the resulting gaps in the wings 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Shorten the wingspan and fit the Flightpath B1 wingtips 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Re-shape the tailcone 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Re-shape the fin/tailplane fairing 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Change the shape of the main landing gear doors and bays 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Remove the wing vortex generators 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Remove the blisters on the top of the fuselage 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Re-shape the cockpit windows 
  • Draw and print the decals 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1

I'll probably have to add to this list....

...not much more

  • Remove strake behind cockpit on joint line 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Remove bumper under tail 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Reduce chord of wing leading edge  2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Draw and cut masks for the red stripe 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Fill portholes & drill new ones further aft 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1
  • Vacform new cockpit windows 2714.png&f=1&nofb=1

 

A quick look at where to remove sections from the fuselage, I've never seen any mention of where the extra length was inserted for the production Victors but the prototype had nice curves on the upper and lower fuselage centreline rather than the straight lines you can see where I've marked the 'X's. The advantage of taking these sections out will be when the two parts are re-joined there should only be a  small amount of blending to do. I will have to extend the forward wing root cut-outs up to just under the porthole windows -which looks about right from photos

 

erw2rdvY_o.jpg

 

A trial fit of the Flightpath replacement engine/intake section which is a big lump of resin but fits well in the kit slot. The join to the fuselage and outer wing sections is likely to need some reinforcing. I think some brass rods through the fuselage and into each resin part and then some more into the wings


uDmQX3W0_o.jpg

 

The difference between the size of the intakes is really noticeable here, a big win is that I don't have to deal with the join on the intake vanes which is a difficult part of the Matchbox kit

O5b4N4Jg_o.jpg

 

The wings need the big pods to be removed and the gap filled in, the vortex generators removing and the span shortening. Flightpath provide white metal replacement wingtips which butt-join to the wings but I'll drill into them and fit some more brass rod to make sure everything stays where it should

jzy9RQfT_o.jpg

 

The kit fin on top of a very old and not particularly accurate 3-view of the prototype showing the differences. I don't think the fin chord should really be that narrow but I need to look into that some more.

BmrFNRG5_o.jpg

 

Lots to do but I don't think any of it is too difficult.


Steve

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Just my kind of thread! I cannot wait to see your work on this. Since you're going to have to mess with the canopy you can probably make a good attempt at fixing the kit's most glaring issue, the awfully shaped cockpit. 

 

 

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On 07/04/2022 at 22:50, Adam Poultney said:

Just my kind of thread! I cannot wait to see your work on this. Since you're going to have to mess with the canopy you can probably make a good attempt at fixing the kit's most glaring issue, the awfully shaped cockpit. 

 

 

It's one I've wanted to do for years so this is the perfect opportunity to just get on with it! It will go nicely with my prototype Valiant and Sperrin, just need to do the big white triangle then for the full set. What's the issue with the cockpit shape?

 

On 08/04/2022 at 17:14, Mike N said:

I am really looking forward to seeing you build this one, Steve. As you know, I've got plans to do the exact same conversion, so I'll be taking notes as you go along! :)

 

Mike 

 

I'd best print you a set of decals then...  Will you be doing the original silver, black & silver or the 2nd prototype in it's blue scheme? I can easily change the serial numbers for you.

 

On 13/04/2022 at 07:19, CliffB said:

Good luck Steve.  A lot of work to do, but it should be fun :popcorn:

 

Cheers, there is a lot to do but most of it is removing things rather than adding - apart from the FlightPath engine nacelles. I was convinced I'd posted on your conversion but hadn't, so I've just put that right!

 

Some progress after taking the saw to the fuselage and the fit of the shortened front section afterwards looks pretty good

 

Lu4v4pqA_o.jpg


ue9HsRKY_o.jpg

 

I'll need to reshape the wing root cutouts to accept the resin parts but that should be easy enough. I want to try and get all the major surgery out of the way first so I can get on with gluing some parts together - apparently you can do that with plastic kits now, who knew?

 

Steve

 

Edited by BritJet
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7 minutes ago, BritJet said:

It's one I've wanted to do for years so this is the perfect opportunity to just get on with it! It will go nicely with my prototype Valiant and Sperrin, just need to do the big white triangle then for the full set. What's the issue with the cockpit shape?

It's way too bulbous, it throws the look off. 

I think the reason is the cockpit glazing only has sideways curvature but should be curved in the forwards direction as well, but I don't own one to have a close look at.

Airfix got it practically spot on, if you look for images of the two kits it will become quite obvious.

 

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@BritJet I’m sorry to have to add to your “to do” list but the early Victors had narrower-chord outer panels than the K. 2 (and late-service K. 1s).  Both leading edges have the same sweep, it’s just that the later wings’ leading edges are further forward.  If you take the outer leading edges off at the base of the saw-tooth where centre and outboard panels meet parallel to the leading edge out as far as the location for the pitot probes you should be OK.  Obviously you’ll need to re-contour both upper and lower surfaces with some filling, filing, sanding and repeat plus a bit of re-scribing to depict the original “nose flaps” or droops but it should be worth it.

 

Historical note:  the Victor was originally designed with drooping leading edges  (“droops”) to improve low speed handling.  These were operated by pneumatic rams relying on high-pressure accumulators.  The rams could drive the droops down in just over a second, producing a significant longitudinal trim change.  The droops were standard on all Victors as built except XM714 to ‘718, these five all had the extended and cambered leading edges from new.

 

The change in the design of the outer leading edges was prompted by the loss of the prototype B. Mk. 2, XH668, with the loss of all crew.  The aeroplane had been engaged on high altitude, high-Mach number buffet trials when the pitot serving the co-pilot’s ASI and the stall warning system failed.  The result was that the droops were driven down, forcing XH668 which was trimmed for high speed flight, into a near-vertical dive from which recovery soon became impossible.  Although some attempt appeared to have been made to abandon the aeroplane, both pilots had initiated ejection but outside the seats’ operating envelope, the entire crew perished.  Over half a million pieces of wreckage were eventually recovered from near the Bristol Channel where XH668 crashed, including the tailplane trim jack, which was at the high-speed end of its travel, and at least some of the droop rams which were in the “down” position, a combination which should not occur.  The outer wing panels were redesigned with fixed, cambered leading edges which benefitted both low-and high-speed handling and were applied to all Victors remaining in service, K. Mk. 1 XH648 at Duxford has them as do the three surviving K. Mk 2s at Cosford, Bruntingthorpe. and Elvington.

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On 4/14/2022 at 7:09 PM, BritJet said:

I'd best print you a set of decals then...  Will you be doing the original silver, black & silver or the 2nd prototype in it's blue scheme? I can easily change the serial numbers for you.

I think it's got to be the black and silver one. The blue scheme is very attractive too, so maybe I'll do both ;)

 

On 4/14/2022 at 7:09 PM, BritJet said:

Some progress after taking the saw to the fuselage and the fit of the shortened front section afterwards looks pretty good

 

85be9683-9303-435c-b1dd-56f4f95ea2ed.JPG
36ae5ae0-c4d8-4a04-b3d8-1c6f4dd86efd.JPG

No going back now :D

 

Those raised panel lines... I'd forgotten about them. Are you going to keep them where possible, or remove and/or re-scribe?

 

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On 14/04/2022 at 19:22, Adam Poultney said:

It's way too bulbous, it throws the look off. 

I think the reason is the cockpit glazing only has sideways curvature but should be curved in the forwards direction as well, but I don't own one to have a close look at.

Airfix got it practically spot on, if you look for images of the two kits it will become quite obvious.

 

Thanks, I'll definitely have a look at the differences and see what I can do. Your B1 looks very good, I've got another Flightpath conversion to one from the Matchbox kit - that'll be less work to do than this one! 

 

On 14/04/2022 at 20:34, stever219 said:

@BritJet I’m sorry to have to add to your “to do” list but the early Victors had narrower-chord outer panels than the K. 2 (and late-service K. 1s).  Both leading edges have the same sweep, it’s just that the later wings’ leading edges are further forward.  If you take the outer leading edges off at the base of the saw-tooth where centre and outboard panels meet parallel to the leading edge out as far as the location for the pitot probes you should be OK.  Obviously you’ll need to re-contour both upper and lower surfaces with some filling, filing, sanding and repeat plus a bit of re-scribing to depict the original “nose flaps” or droops but it should be worth it.

 

Thanks, I had written that on my initial list and it's mentioned in the Flightpath B1 conversion instructions, but missed it when typing the tasks above - added now along with a couple of minor additions.

 

On 17/04/2022 at 09:25, Mike N said:

 

I think it's got to be the black and silver one. The blue scheme is very attractive too, so maybe I'll do both ;)

 

No going back now :D

 

Those raised panel lines... I'd forgotten about them. Are you going to keep them where possible, or remove and/or re-scribe?

 

I totally agree on the scheme, it looks sinister but classy - if that's possible!. The blue one looks good but I don't feel it's got the same impact. I'll do a set of decals for both for you.

 

The raised panel lines are very fine and a vast improvement on the usual Matchbox trenches. I don't particularly want to re-scribe the whole thing but as the resin parts have engraved lines I will have to do at least some of them.

 

I've used lengths of sprue to bridge the forward fuselage joint and refined the cut-outs for the resin parts to fit into, also drilled holes for some 3mm brass rod spars to hold things together. I'll add lengths of 3mm I/D tube across the inside to guide the rods through from one side to the other.

 

cbIM7QAQ_o.jpg

 

Bridged the gap left by removing the centreline hose unit fairing ready for a piece of plasticard to be set in.

 

cwwgAOv3_o.jpg

 

The cockpit section fits well onto the sprue reinforcements with only small gaps to be filled. I've added the crew door now as it will need filling and sanding due to the poor fit.

shYgpEp9_o.jpg

 

Areas marked with an 'X' require surgery.

gedLvYJH_o.jpg

 

Trial fitting of the resin and metal parts, I've fitted a piece of plasticard into the gap left by removing the wing pod which will need filling and sanding.

YzaJBcEj_o.jpg

 

The resin parts don't provide much support for the plastic wings and I don't like the idea of a butt joint so I've added some plastic pieces. I'll also drill into the resin and fit some brass rods to support across the joints.

aChQ4MyH_o.jpg

 

HHcfR4Ak_o.jpg

 

The 3mm brass rod spars across the resin parts.

GvoxTTFQ_o.jpg

 

Trial fit of the major parts.

yfsGFo4K_o.jpg

 

Not much filling to do around the front end.

f2qKRwTC_o.jpg

 

I've started on a new fin, fitted to the kit fin after removing the front section and tailplane fairing - need to make the front of that more pointed. The rudder will need extending or replacing.
N78WUOJF_o.jpg

 

As @stever219 pointed out, the early Victors lacked the extended leading edge. I've added scrap plastic behind the forward mating surfaces and levelled to the same point. Then removed a 2mm parallel section as marked by the pencil lines, which includes the original mating surface. The wing leading edge is then simply re-attached and will need blending in.

2RIrwlMq_o.jpg

 

Leading edges re-attached and needing some filler but not too bad, the metal wingtip also lines up much better now but will also need filling. I've made new main gear doors from plasticard and modified the shape of the bays slightly. All the brass rods are now in place.


tSDLvxlL_o.jpg
2VXBYkHo_o.jpg

Thanks for looking.

 

Steve

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On 18/04/2022 at 19:01, Adam Poultney said:

All images not working

Seems fine for me Adam, this seems to be a recurring issue on Britmodeller isn't it... I usually can't see village photos without opening them in another tab but this time it seems to be fine for me, you should try it though...

 

Levi

 

Victor progress is looking good, I wouldn't have the patience to deal with all this cutting and fixing.

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On 18/04/2022 at 19:01, Adam Poultney said:

All images not working

 

On 21/04/2022 at 12:50, KingTiger435 said:

Seems fine for me Adam, this seems to be a recurring issue on Britmodeller isn't it... I usually can't see village photos without opening them in another tab but this time it seems to be fine for me, you should try it though...

 

Levi

 

Victor progress is looking good, I wouldn't have the patience to deal with all this cutting and fixing.

 

The problem is with Village Photos and is a minor security setting that needs to be changed if you want to be able to see the photos

 

On 18/04/2022 at 20:35, Mike N said:

Absolutely flying along, Steve. That's a huge amount of work done, I am very impressed with the surgery performed!

 

Mike

 

Cheers, most of the work is minor but it's magnified due to the size of the kit. Al the cuts are in a straight line which helps!

 

I spent a lot of yesterday shaping the new fin and changing the fairing/rudder - still need to get the base of the rudder right. Also found a part in the spares box to use for the more pointed tailcone.

 

Y3yQZuPH_o.jpg

 

Joined all the wings parts and filled the joints ready for the boring job of sanding down.....

2tefhkEw_o.jpg

 

Joined the fuselage together and after adding some weights, added the shortened front part. Shouldn't be much work to do on the joint. With the weight of the resin engine section it probably doesn't need any nose weight but I wanted to be sure.

8hQB8vqs_o.jpg

 

Just a trial fit of the major parts.

VpQDXOPr_o.jpg

 

Same for the tail parts.

 

9kE0X66O_o.jpg

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Steve

 

Edited by BritJet
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Cheers.

 

On 25/04/2022 at 05:53, CliffB said:

All the surgery's looking good.  Definitely worth the effort :thumbsup2:

 

On 26/04/2022 at 22:02, Mike N said:

Really coming along quickly. The cuts to reduce the nose length look to have worked out very well in terms of contours.

 

The conversion isn't difficult, there's just lots of things to do! I deliberately chose where to cut the fuselage so the two sections went back together again without lots of re-shaping to do. I drew parallel lines, above and below the fuselage and then found the two points where the slice to be removed resulted in the same (or close to) distance either side from each line back to the fuselage. Whilst a single cut would have been easier and quicker, the staggered joint is very strong now the fuselage is back together.

 

I got all the filler sanded down - not my favourite job..... After a quick squirt of primer there were a few places that needed extra work but easily dealt with. The new fin is now complete so the next job will be to fill the hole under the rear fuselage where the refuelling equipment was - I've made a mould to vacform this, it's only a simple curved section but I want to make a B1 so it will help with that. I'm also going to make a vacform mould of the fin and pointed tailcone as I think this will be easier than using the scratchbuilt fin you can see above as it's a bit delicate. Gives me multiple opportunities to mess things up! I can then bring the major parts together, there will be some work to do around the wing root joint as the one resin part fits better than the other. The cockpit transparency needs to be modified as the window layout is a bit different.

 

After that I need to remove the remaining raised panel lines and re-scribe the more prominent ones. I'm not going to try to do them all, most can't be seen on Victors anyway as it's a very smooth airframe. Also need to finalise the decal artwork and print them and I'll probably draw and cut some masks for the red stripe.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Steve

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I made the moulds for the under fuselage plug and pointed tailcone. Nice basic shapes so easily vacformed.

 

6XW2Rzih_o.jpg

 

After separating from the plastic sheet, glued in position and a bit of filler to blend it in.

 

nOLJStcD_o.jpg

 

Same for the tailcone.

PuiQX8hP_o.jpg

 

First test of the fin mould with thin plastic (0.4mm), I need to drill some more holes to suck more air out in a few places but it's not too bad. I'll get some 0.75mm plastic sheet during the week as I think 1mm will be too thick to pull into the tailplane fairing

qh3Oj97M_o.jpg

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Steve

Edited by BritJet
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Hi Steve,

 

that's a great conversion project. The Victor is a really beautiful design and this must be the first build I've seen which tries to recreate the prototype. Great job on your vacformed parts, they look excellent.

 

Can't wait for the next update 👍

 

Cheers

Markus

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 01/05/2022 at 11:23, Mike N said:

Excellent progress again, Steve. The vacforming has avoided lots of work with the kit fin. Won't be long before the airframe is complete!

 

Mike 

 

On 01/05/2022 at 22:42, Shorty84 said:

Hi Steve,

 

that's a great conversion project. The Victor is a really beautiful design and this must be the first build I've seen which tries to recreate the prototype. Great job on your vacformed parts, they look excellent.

 

Can't wait for the next update 👍

 

Cheers

Markus

 

Thanks guys. The vacformed fin wasn't essential but it makes things easier in case I mess up! The Victor must have looked so futuristic when it first appeared and still looks pretty amazing 70 years later, @CliffB did this lovely build recently;

New mouldings in 0.75mm plastic which are much sturdier but still vacform nicely. The two halves still need reinforcing with sprue and scrap plastic. I've extended the fin leading edge into the intake.

 

ur00sUSV_o.jpg

 

Looking into the intake before the two halves are joined, needs more work but nearly there.

R7yRzmRu_o.jpg

 

The two halves joined together and some more sprue glued into the lower edge to fit into the fuselage for extra strength


aOBHQs8c_o.jpg

Cheers.

 

Steve

 

Edited by BritJet
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  • 2 weeks later...

Nice photos Adam, the Duxford Victor is looking a lot better than the last time I saw it.

 

I think I've finally reached the end of having fun with the fill, sand and repeat process. A quick squirt of primer gets me to this stage.

 

Wx3rDTPe_o.jpg

 

ZGfytOyT_o.jpg

 

Next will be fitting the new transparency I've vacformed, so a little bit more filling and sanding. Then an overall coat of silver before the fun of masking can start.

 

Steve

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Cheers Mike, it is getting there.

 

Progress today, sprayed silver all over then masked off the parts to stay silver, sprayed red for the cheatline and then masked off, sprayed the gloss black. I'm going to leave that all to dry off before removing the masking. Hopefully there won't be too many touch-ups to do but there's bound to be a few.

 

PYbDjml4_o.jpg

 

Really looking forward to getting the decals onto this!

 

Steve

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