HMS Glamorgan colours

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday All, I've started a build of HMS Glamorgan in the Falklands GB but I thought I'd ask my question here, it might have a larger naval knowledge base. I've seen some colour photos that suggest a light red/brown deck colour except the flight deck which is grey but the quarterdeck is not visible. In a black/white photo of the Exocet damage it appears the same colour as the flight deck, hence grey too.

     Another question is the underwater antifouling. The photos I've seen in a seaway don't show red only black so I thought it's either black underwater or the ship has a very deep boot-topping. I was leaning towards black antifouling. But there's a rather well known photo of HMS Antelope burning and sinking with her bow out of the water. (RIP). It seems to show a deep boot topping and red antifouling so maybe Glamorgan had that too. HMS Coventry on the other hand appears to me to have had black anti-fouling paint. So my question is does anyone know the colour of HMS Glamorgan's underwater hull? Brick-red/brown, black or something else?

     Many thanks. Regards, Jeff.

[chuckb1]

She was "Pussers Red Lead" Nearest colour is brick red. I served on her 85/86. To confirm, ask to join the HMS Glamorgan/County Class page on Facebook. If you want to pick my brains no worries, drop me a message. If you want to see a pretty accurate build of her circa 82

Follow the link below. Dimensionally the Airfix Kit is way out for the upper deck structures, from aft to fwd, hanger roof and 901 platform are a bit long the main mast is out by about 2mm the cross passage is too big, no SCOT platforms, she needs a double beadstead radar,  life raft pods, STWS, re locate the Sea Cat more fwd, the after part of the fwd funnel is too long and there is also a well deck missing (I painted it out more than once.) Signal deck is too short, you will need to knock up a couple of 15" signal projectors. Signal deck will need need the deck gratings by the funnel port side and on the signal deck. painting deck tan, upper deck where steel was deck green with white fair leads and bollards, but as she headed south they were painted top coat grey, bollards were left steel but were a deep brown as they were exposed metal with a layer of grease on them. Only epigrip grey area was between the sea cat director platform to jut underneath the whaler (Stbd Side) and on the (Port side) underneath the Huntress. On the green acres you will need2 x decent oerlikons plus the lockers (In front of the GDP and Main Mast, GDP will need the look out bins. Also scratch the chaff charlie dispensers, upper bridge needs eye brows (Round Downs) Bridge wings paint deck tan, also 2 x 10 Signal projectors. 

 

Exocets and what was B Turret deck is way too long even if you scratch the Exocet blast deflectors and scratch the base for them. Also you will need aerials for the Exocet, 4.5's a scratch on the roof of the 4.5 turret for the Gun Directors Manual position. 

 

If you build her post 82, you will need a pair of 40/60 Bofors and 2 x pairs of twin oerlikons and scratch the half deck plus the upper deck ammo lockers which were fwd of the main mast with the single mounting lockers.

 

Have a look at the Atlantic build below its pretty much correct, couple of bits are not right but its only Glam ratings who would notice, I have some pictures of her in 84-86. 

 

 https://modelingmadness.com/review/misc/ships/gb/spahrglam.htm

 

Enjoy the build and do the "Glamourous Organ" the build she deserves. 

 

Pennant Number D19

Int Call Sign "Golf Kilo Bravo Hotel"

 

 

I Fyny Bo'r Nod (Welsh: "I Give Way To None")

 

Ro1(T) "Chuck" Berry

Edited April 2, 2022 by chuckb1

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday @chuckb1, this is great, many thanks. I know the Airfix kit is has some inaccuracies and your info is going to be of great help to me. I'm afraid the model won't be anywhere as good as the one you've linked to because of the size, my mediocre skill level and because I don't do PE but I'll do my best. I was planning on depicting the ship as at the Falklands but before the Exocet hit. Again, many thanks. Regards, Jeff.

[Adm Lord De Univers]

9 hours ago, chuckb1 said:

She was "Pussers Red Lead" Nearest colour is brick red. I served on her 85/86. To confirm, ask to join the HMS Glamorgan/County Class page on Facebook. If you want to pick my brains no worries, drop me a message. If you want to see a pretty accurate build of her circa 82

Follow the link below. Dimensionally the Airfix Kit is way out for the upper deck structures, from aft to fwd, hanger roof and 901 platform are a bit long the main mast is out by about 2mm the cross passage is too big, no SCOT platforms, she needs a double beadstead radar,  life raft pods, STWS, re locate the Sea Cat more fwd, the after part of the fwd funnel is too long and there is also a well deck missing (I painted it out more than once.) Signal deck is too short, you will need to knock up a couple of 15" signal projectors. Signal deck will need need the deck gratings by the funnel port side and on the signal deck. painting deck tan, upper deck where steel was deck green with white fair leads and bollards, but as she headed south they were painted top coat grey, bollards were left steel but were a deep brown as they were exposed metal with a layer of grease on them. Only epigrip grey area was between the sea cat director platform to jut underneath the whaler (Stbd Side) and on the (Port side) underneath the Huntress. On the green acres you will need2 x decent oerlikons plus the lockers (In front of the GDP and Main Mast, GDP will need the look out bins. Also scratch the chaff charlie dispensers, upper bridge needs eye brows (Round Downs) Bridge wings paint deck tan, also 2 x 10 Signal projectors. 

 

Exocets and what was B Turret deck is way too long even if you scratch the Exocet blast deflectors and scratch the base for them. Also you will need aerials for the Exocet, 4.5's a scratch on the roof of the 4.5 turret for the Gun Directors Manual position. 

 

If you build her post 82, you will need a pair of 40/60 Bofors and 2 x pairs of twin oerlikons and scratch the half deck plus the upper deck ammo lockers which were fwd of the main mast with the single mounting lockers.

 

Have a look at the Atlantic build below its pretty much correct, couple of bits are not right but its only Glam ratings who would notice, I have some pictures of her in 84-86. 

 

 https://modelingmadness.com/review/misc/ships/gb/spahrglam.htm

 

Enjoy the build and do the "Glamourous Organ" the build she deserves. 

 

Pennant Number D19

Int Call Sign "Golf Kilo Bravo Hotel"

 

 

I Fyny Bo'r Nod (Welsh: "I Give Way To None")

 

Ro1(T) "Chuck" Berry

Ye gods, I don't even plan on building her, but I feel I could from this alone. Kudos to the most informative reply I've ever seen.

 

David

[Chewbacca]

Hi Jeff,

 

I got some of Chuck's corrections but not all when I did my DEVONSHIRE to GLAMORGAN conversion a few years back - see RFI here: 

The question of the deck colour was the interesting as like you I couldn't find any definitive photos that showed the deck colour.  1982 was a period of change for the RN in which metal, non-flight, decks were being repainted from the green that had endured since the 1950s to Camrex Grey.  I found a colour photo of GLAMORGAN that was entitled Gibraltar, April 1982 which clearly showed her with green decks and another post her 1982 refit with grey, so my logic said that her decks was repainted when she returned for her post Falklands refit.  It was only after showing this model at the Yeovilton model show about 6/7 years ago that one of the visitors pointed out that they were in fact grey in June 1982 as they had been repainted in Gibraltar, just prior to sailing south.  He should know, apparently, as at the time he was the ship's painter!  So I'd go with grey.  

[chuckb1]

In 85 there were bits the dockies missed, As far as I know the upper deck was painted Eppi Grey but the 901 platform SCOT plaforms underneath the runners was still green that was my Part of Ship along with the GDP and Signal deck plus grey acres. formerly green acres. Chewbacca can you remember the ships painters name by any chance? I do remember it was a lad called "Dinger" Bell he was a no badge killick, picked his hook up before we did DTS in 85. I am sure he was on board Down South in 82 think he was an RP. When she came back from the Falklands obviously she was taken in for re fit and repair. I asked the lads on the FB group and indeed a couple said the same that most of the upper deck was re painted in Gib.

 

On 4/3/2022 at 10:38 AM, Adm Lord De Univers said:

Ye gods, I don't even plan on building her, but I feel I could from this alone. Kudos to the most informative reply I've ever seen.

 

David

I was the "Bunting" who sewed her de commissioning pennant after we completed Royal Yacht Duties. Best loaf I ever had, sat on the main mast with Broom Handles, Inglefield clips, a ball of pussers string and the pennant, Proper Seamanship skills with the bees wax, a needle and palm at the age of 20 sewing away hiding in the Mast,

Before I joined up I worked in a boat yard in Windsor. So knew what I was roughly doing, Chief Yeoman had faith in my dodgy skills!

 

Thanks for the props on the post. She was a good ship and my best draft.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by chuckb1

[chuckb1]

On 4/3/2022 at 2:21 AM, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday @chuckb1, this is great, many thanks. I know the Airfix kit is has some inaccuracies and your info is going to be of great help to me. I'm afraid the model won't be anywhere as good as the one you've linked to because of the size, my mediocre skill level and because I don't do PE but I'll do my best. I was planning on depicting the ship as at the Falklands but before the Exocet hit. Again, many thanks. Regards, Jeff.

 

Hi 

 

Found the phots from 82, These should help you a lot. These brought back some memories of her for me. Some good reference for the upper deck and down South

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32828971@N00/3738534090/in/photostream/

I

[davecov]

@ArnoldAmbrose Jeff, here are a couple of links to pictures of HMS Antrim which although one was taken in the Seventies and the other in 1980 give a good indication of the layout of the Batch II County Class at that time.

 

https://www.davecov.org/modelling/ships/britain/pictures/destroyers/antrim/antrimcolourmega.jpg

 

https://www.davecov.org/modelling/ships/britain/pictures/destroyers/antrim/me.jpg

 

No apologies for showing where I was in one of the pictures on the day we sailed into Portsmouth Harbour following our 1980 Far East deployment.

 

Dave

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Guys, thank you all for your help, this is terrific. The photos and text will be a great help and answer some questions I haven't got around to asking yet.

And @davecov I recognized you instantly. 😀 Regards, Jeff.

[Chewbacca]

8 hours ago, chuckb1 said:

Chewbacca can you remember the ships painters name by any chance? I do remember it was a lad called "Dinger" Bell he was a no badge killick, picked his hook up before we did DTS in 85. I am sure he was on board Down South in 82 think he was an RP. When she came back from the Falklands obviously she was taken in for re fit and repair. I asked the lads on the FB group and indeed a couple said the same that most of the upper deck was re painted in Gib.

 

Sorry, only met him for about 10 mins and that would have been 2015/2016 or so so even if he gave me his name at the time, I certainly don't remember it now.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Guys, @chuckb1, @Chewbacca, @davecov, @AntPhillips (sorry to those I've missed), Although I don't have a lot of progress with this I've been going over your posts for info and they've been very helpful. Chuck you said that Frank Spahr's model is very accurate so I've followed that a lot. My forte in warships is WW2 so some of the terminology and equipment you've all referred to I'm not always sure what they are. Sorry. So if I could ask you all a few (probably dumb) questions?

 

The GDP, is that the deckhouse behind the bridge, the platform on it or both?

The decks being painted from green to grey, is that the upper deck of the hull, the top of the superstructures or both?

I now know what the SCOT platform is and the STWS are, but I'm not sure which is the signal deck.

The Huntress, is that one of the boats?

Lookout bins in the GDP, are they walled or balustraded positions within the GDP? I've seen something like that on other models. And I guess the GDP includes the platform.

That area between the GDP and the forward funnel, does that have a name?

The green acres, I assume that's the top of the forward superstructure because you made reference to the Oerlikons.

Does anyone know if she had 3-bladed screws, 5-bladed or something different? The kit comes with 3-bladed (pretty standard for Airfix) whereas the Atlantic etch in 1/350 provides 5-bladed screws.

 

That's probably enough for now. I've had to scratch build the entire forward superstructure, and about the only kit parts I haven't had to alter or replace are the rudders. My build is in the Falklands Anniversary GB rather than Maritime WIP but I thought I'd ask my questions here because others in the future might contemplate a similar build and might find your info here more easily.

 

Many thanks to you all. Regards, Jeff.

[chuckb1]

On 4/28/2022 at 2:44 PM, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday Guys, @chuckb1, @Chewbacca, @davecov, @AntPhillips (sorry to those I've missed), Although I don't have a lot of progress with this I've been going over your posts for info and they've been very helpful. Chuck you said that Frank Spahr's model is very accurate so I've followed that a lot. My forte in warships is WW2 so some of the terminology and equipment you've all referred to I'm not always sure what they are. Sorry. So if I could ask you all a few (probably dumb) questions?

 

The GDP, is that the deckhouse behind the bridge, the platform on it or both?

The decks being painted from green to grey, is that the upper deck of the hull, the top of the superstructures or both?

I now know what the SCOT platform is and the STWS are, but I'm not sure which is the signal deck.

The Huntress, is that one of the boats?

Lookout bins in the GDP, are they walled or balustraded positions within the GDP? I've seen something like that on other models. And I guess the GDP includes the platform.

That area between the GDP and the forward funnel, does that have a name?

The green acres, I assume that's the top of the forward superstructure because you made reference to the Oerlikons.

Does anyone know if she had 3-bladed screws, 5-bladed or something different? The kit comes with 3-bladed (pretty standard for Airfix) whereas the Atlantic etch in 1/350 provides 5-bladed screws.

 

That's probably enough for now. I've had to scratch build the entire forward superstructure, and about the only kit parts I haven't had to alter or replace are the rudders. My build is in the Falklands Anniversary GB rather than Maritime WIP but I thought I'd ask my questions here because others in the future might contemplate a similar build and might find your info here more easily.

 

Many thanks to you all. Regards, Jeff.

Morning and sorry for the slow reply, the day job was really busy until we broke up for summer holidays. 

GDP Gun Director Platform. This is the raised platform at the base of the foremast. The rear side of the mast was the signal deck. This is the enclosed area between the foremast and the forrard funnel. 

The GDP platform had circular bins in it which we had to get into and then look through the sights of. These were on a U section rail and looked like binoculars. 

Green acres was the bridge roof, the area abaft of the bridge roof that ran all the way aft behind the funnel. Yes that is the area where the 20mm's were.

When I joined her in refit she was in dry dock and yes we had five bladed screws. We came out of refit into Fountain Lake, then berthed at the FMJ Jetty and then on Fountain Lake Jetty.

 

If there is anything else you need drop me a message here. 

 

Kind Regards

 

Chuck

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday @chuckb1, thanks for getting back to me. Your info here confirms a lot of what I've been able to find out. I think I've got the lookout bins on the GDP wrong though but I didn't have much to go on earlier.

Most photos of the ships I've found don't show this area very clearly, I've had to go on other models. The square 'timber duckboards' in the centre of the signal deck had a binnacle mounted on it? And I believe I need to make 15" projectors for the other two platforms abreast of the funnel?

     If you haven't found the build thread it's here in the Falklands GB :-

I've just done the Type 901 radar and am currently modifying the boat davits. As you can see, those that came with the kit leave somewhat to be desired.

     Again, thanks for your help. Regards, Jeff.

[chuckb1]

Hi

The GDP Bins we sat in, there were two to port and two to stbd. The deck was steel. 

Signal deck, you have the right colour at the base of the fwd funnel the two blocks you have were semi circular and had wooden gratings on them. That is where the buntings stood to man the 15" projectors. The Flag locker and signalmans shelter were at the base of the foremast one flag locker to port, one to stbd with a shelter and comms panel a ladder was to stbd to get to the GDP Everything was painted top coat grey and the screens on the flag lockers were a light grey to match the top coat grey. 

 

Access to the signal deck was via the fwd funnel, there was a door with a circular revolving handle that locked the door via four points and was gas tight. Inside, in the Funnel was the VS Store to the right was the ladder to the officers accommodation. Base of the ladder was the Jimmys cabin and the Navigator if I remember rightly. The next ladder to you down to the Rhonda Valley then down again to 2 Deck. My mess was 2 Echo mess Port Gulch (Sleeping Area) When on DTS (Dartmouth Training Squadron, we moved out and I was down aft in the Marines Barracks underneath the Sea Slug deck.

 

Base of the main mast is spot on, you have the SCOT platforms there, the domes were like an egg shape with the bottom chopped off. These mounted on to steel platforms slightly bigger than the base. SCOTT domes you could make out of Miliput, let them cure and then sand them flat. cut a disc of plasticard slightly bigger than the dome, glue the dome on to it then the disk on to the platform and paint that grey. Domes colour wise they were a very pale duck egg green, not grey. Shells were like a glass fibre material. With the trackers inside. Small hatch on the inside face nearest to the mast on each one with a yellow circular band marking the RADHAZ on the deck. This would be about 2mm inboard of the domes if to scale.

 

If you are doing her with a war fit for the SEA CAT, the Live missiles were white launch rails stainless steel with a yellow tip. Drill rounds were blue with an orange tip to the warhead.

 

Bridge wings, they protruded out further with the garden wall housing a 10" projector. She had wooden duck boards on the bridge wings and the ladder up to grey acres was on the back side of each bridge wing. When we closed up at action stations after the Falklands and apparently during the Falklands we mounted a GPMG on each bridge wing. 

 

Swimmer of the watch rig was directly below the bridge wing on Port and Stbd side, only ever remember the swimmer during my time going in the water from the Stbd side. You can use any reference for the rig and davit from the 70s and 80s on any RN Ship bigger then a MCMV they are all the same.

 

Chuck

 

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Chuck, thanks for replying. The GDP bins you refer to, (two on either side), about what diameter please? I'd guess 2-3 feet? And to the front, or rear or the middle of each side? I haven't been able to find any photos that show them clearly. As you can see I'd already fitted some internal balustrades inside the GDP. I don't know yet if I can get them out without too much damage.

     Yesterday before seeing your post here I fitted two 15-inch projectors. They're not in the photo above but you can just see a hole in the port "duckboards" where it went. The door hatch into the fwd funnel, it appears to be to the front but port side of the funnel? I've not done it but I think I still can add it.

     The two lockers I've got in the signal deck - are they the positions of the flag lockers? If they were at the base of the foremast then I guess these are too far aft. I know mine a too wide but not tall enough but at the time I didn't know they were flag lockers. Or are they extra lockers?

     I'd already made and painted the two SCOT domes, that's them still joined on the thin rod. Since the photo was taken I've run a thin strip of masking tape around the base and then painted the exposed top white. I haven't put door hatches on them but I can still try to add them. There's a great photo in your photo stream you linked to earlier of the port Oerlikon with the Corvus chaff launcher and SCOT dome behind it. Many thanks for it. In the photo the dome appears to have a cover over it (as in some other photos too) but I was going to have it white.

     The two bridge wing decks are currently painted grey but easy to paint wood colour. That's one of the reasons they're still unattached. I've modified the boat davits. They may not be 100% accurate but I think better than the originals. I'll post another photo soon. I've also started on the life raft canisters.

     The kit comes with 3-bladed screws. I don't know if I can make 5-bladed screws that small. The Amazon kit has 5-bladed screws so I guess I could take those and worry about Amazon later.

 

Once again thank you for all your help and advice. Some I may not be able to do due to the small size of the model but I'm grateful anyway. Regards, Jeff.

[chuckb1]

Afternoon,

the flag lockers were moved to where you have them, they were too tight where they were that was done before 82. The signalmans shelter was at the base of the foremast, During refit post 82 it was re skinned as it was rotten with rust apparently.  tge Dockyard workers re skinned it and refitted all the comms kit. 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

       Gidday Chuck, thanks for that. Right now I'm attempting to scratch build the Seaslug launcher. Oh fun! It's not finished yet and already comprises of over 50 pieces. Why couldn't the RN have skipped Seaslug and gone straight to Sea Dart? Much easier to make. 😁 Oh well  .   .   .

       Thanks for your help. Regards, Jeff.

[Chewbacca]

But that's all part of the fun Jeff!  We'll have to get you using PE - the WEM 1/600 Sea Slug launcher is a thing of beauty!

 

 

How do you plan to upgrade the kit blob that purports to be a 965 radar?  

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday @Chewbacca, it certainly looks very good, certainly better than my efforts.

 

As you probably know by now I'm not very knowledgeable on post-WW2 ships fittings etc. Which is the 965 radar? Googling it brings up images of the bedstead radar atop the mainmast.

       I've done this:-

Marginally better than the kit part which as you know is a single bedstead anyway. Painting it black (I sound like the Rolling Stones) hides some of my roughness, just a little.

 

For the type 901 radar I used the kit part but replaced the base and splayed supports plus tizzied up the main unit a bit.

 

Regards, Jeff.

[davecov]

Coming on nicely, Jeff. @ArnoldAmbrose 👍

 

One thing that is often missed by modellers of County Class Destroyers is the sloping inwards of the port-side bulkhead aft of the hangar door, beneath the 901 Sea Slug Director. It slopes inwards so that the starboard wheel/leg of the Wessex could clear it and there was a guide formed by steel plate that ran the length of this bulkhead. At the entrance to the hangar door a turntable was placed on the deck for the starboard wheel to stop on during the manoeuvre of the helicopter. The colour photograph I linked to in my post earlier in this thread shows this "cutout" and once you see it, you wonder why you never noticed it before!

 

This picture shows the channel in the deck and was taken during an "It's a Knockout" onboard HMS Antrim in 1980:

 

Whilst my mess mates were participating, I did the hard bit by watching and snapping their tortuous endeavours.

 

Dave

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

45 minutes ago, davecov said:

One thing that is often missed by modellers of County Class Destroyers is the sloping inwards of the port-side bulkhead aft of the hangar door, beneath the 901 Sea Slug Director.

       Gidday Dave, thanks for that. Actually I have noticed it in photos but unfortunately I'd already attached the aft superstructure by then. I'm not sure if I can rectify it now. What I didn't know is WHY it was like that, so thanks. And the channel you mention is clearly visible in your photo, I hadn't noticed that before.

      I've seen the TV show "It's a Knockout" here but not heard of it on board ship. You must have been totally exhausted after this activity. 😁 And to think, all those guys are in the 60s now, or very close to it. Mind you, so am I (over 1/2 way to 70 😫)

       Thanks for the info, I'll have a think.      Regards, Jeff.

[bootneck]

Of all the images that I've collected about GMDs, I had never noticed that cutout and overhang before. 

HMS Fife 1976

 

HMS Hampshire, showing the channel under the overhang.

 

Still learning!

 

Mike

[ArnoldAmbrose]

22 minutes ago, bootneck said:

Of all the images that I've collected about GMDs, I had never noticed that cutout and overhang before. 

HMS Fife 1976

Thanks Mike, I feel better now for having missed it initially until too late. When I did notice it I thought it might have been A/C ducting or something like that. It was only @davecov's post above that told me why it was done. And the channel he mentioned is visible in your photo too. Also, that's an interesting cover over the Seacats. I've only seen photos that show individual covers.

       And there's nothing wrong with "Still learning". In fact I think it's commendable. Thanks for the comments. Regards, Jeff.

[davecov]

Another thing that is often missed is that the bulkhead facing the flight deck has two doors. The starboard one is angled:

 

Dave

[ArnoldAmbrose]

4 minutes ago, davecov said:

Another thing that is often missed is that the bulkhead facing the flight deck has two doors. The starboard one is angled:

Hah, I got that one, although my dimensions might be out a little. 🙂 You can see my addition in white styrene. The doors were added later.

Thanks again. Was that on the first batch of ships or an addition to the second batch ships?

Regards, Jeff.