AFV Club Churchills .

[Don149]

Advice on the above please . How good are the kits , Which one would be suitable for a D Day  layout , the Mk III or the Mk VI ? .

( I already have the Tamiya Mk VII on the back of a Diamond T transporter ).

 

 

[Nenad Ilijic]

I built their Mk III, and I was very happy with it. It is fantastic kit. Fit was excellent, details are great and despite seeing some comments that suspension is PITA to build, I really didn't have any problems with it. Highly recommended.

 

You can see WIP here and RFI here.

 

Not sure about their other Churchill kits though, but I guess they are similar.

 

Nenad

[Kingsman]

By D Day the Mk VII and CS Mk VIII were prevalent if not universal in NW Europe.  Earlier Marks were still in use in Italy, notably the unique IV NA75 variant, and in the UK for training.  I'm not aware that any earlier Marks were deployed in NW Europe.  The 75mm gun was considered the minimum necessary armament and the 200 Mk VI were an attempt to upgun and improve  the Mk IV in early '44, but was curtailed in favour of the Mk VII. Some Mk IV and VI were apparently fitted with Mk VII turrets and applique armour as Mk IX and X but it is unclear how many and whether any were ever deployed.

 

Your by-far-most-likely Churchill for D Day and after is a Mk VII.

[Ray_W]

I have just gone through the same process as you and decided on AFV Club. Their Churchills receive good reviews. I am building a series of British Normandy AFV's and for a Churchill it was a toss up between their recently released Mk VII (considerably more expensive with an engine included) or older (2012) and cheaper Mk VI. As @Das Abteilung mentioned there does seem to be limited Normandy marking options for the VI while the VII provides many.  I did read some kit debate on early vs late corrections on the Mk VII although these seem fairly minor and well within my skill set to correct if need be. Also some discussion about drilled out sprockets. A/M is available. Like @Nenad Ilijic mentioned the suspension is complicated. This does not worry me and seems to provide an excellent representation.  I still have plenty of reference checking and yet I have parted with the money and looking forward to its arrival.

 

They also have some nice AVRE options . As you already have a Tamiya VII then AFV Club seems a good follow up option.

 

Ray

[bigfoot]

The AFV club churchills are very good kits, I’ve built a few of them but have pretty much every variant AFV club make. The MkVII is the most recent release and although share a lot of parts, AFV club retooled some of them to fix little issues/details. The suspension can be tricky but if you take your time and make sure it is aligned.

 

There were a mix of marks in Normandy and all the way until the end of the war. MkIII, up armoured MkIII, IV, V, VI and VII. I don’t believe the VIII’s started arriving until late in the war and even then were few. The vast majority of CS churchills were MkV’s. Although VII’s did increase in NWE they certainly weren’t universal, and definitely not in Normandy. The 6pdrs were favoured over the 75mm for armour penetration so although the 75mm was preferred by higher powers, the 6pdr armrest mkIV was kept certainly within 6 guards tank battalion. So pretty much any of the AFV club churchills would be suitable for Normandy dio, possibly with the standard mkiii being the least common.

[Don149]

Thanks Guys ! , I think it will be the Mk VII . ( if I can get through these new Bank card security regs . .)

                                                                                                                                                                    Don .

[Don149]

No joy . I can no longer buy from Hannants because of the new Bankcard security regulations . ( back orders cancelled ) Can`t access Paypal

for some reason , something about wanting a mugshot . It looks like my lifetime hobby has nose dived .

     Goodbye new Lancaster kit , for without the 10% discount I will not be buying .

                                                                                                                                  Don .                                                                                                                                                               

[Don149]

 After getting a Pinsentry card reader I`m able to buy on line again . `Just received the AFV kit . one further question , would the MkVII be painted

in dark green or olive drab ? .I saw the one in Bovington many years ago and that was dark green but the box top shows olive drab ? .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Don .

[Troy Smith]

43 minutes ago, Don149 said:

 After getting a Pinsentry card reader I`m able to buy on line again . `Just received the AFV kit . one further question , would the MkVII be painted

in dark green or olive drab ? .I saw the one in Bovington many years ago and that was dark green but the box top shows olive drab ? .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Don .

 

Bovington used to be pretty shaky on colour accuracy.

 

A Mk.VII would be SCC15 Olive Drab, which is not the same as US Olive Drab, but was introduced due to the amount of US Lend Lease vehicles,  replacing SCC 2 Brown, which was used between 1942-44,  due to a shortage of green pigments, which were reserved for the RAF...

 

"1944-45 – The final change in colour came in April 1944 when A.C.I. 533 authorised S.C.C.15 Olive Drab for use as the new basic colour, to remove the need to repaint U.S. supplied vehicles.  S.C.C.15 Olive Drab was used to replace the old S.C.C.2 in M.T.P.46 patterns or on its own particularly after the abandonment of pattern painting with ACI 1100 of August 1944 except on vehicles still in S.C.C.2.  S.C.C.15 Olive Drab was the first colour in this standard range to be formally named.  It does not match U.S. Army Olive Drab No.9."

 

WW2 British vehicle colours are more complex than often thought, and older publications are usually wrong or incomplete (I have a late 70's Military Modelling magazine and it's hopeless regarding colours)  and this translates into model paints

 

see here, where the above quote is from by @Mike Starmer

https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463

 

HTH

[Don149]

Thanks Troy , olive drab it will be . For that colour I always use Humbrol 155 .

Currently finishing the Ertl/Italer[ 1/9TH Kubel  which has been on the back burner for past 6 or 7 years /

                                                                                                                                                                      Don .

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Don149 said:

olive drab it will be . For that colour I always use Humbrol 155

 

It's not "Olive Drab" 

I think you will find Humbrol 155 is too drab, 

 

SCC15 is greener.  This is the mix from the site I linked.

 

S.C.C.15  OLIVE DRAB.

Mix: 5 x Humbrol 150 + 5 x Humbrol 159 + 2 x Humbrol 33

Alternative;  9 x Humbrol 253 + 1 x Humbrol 80

12 x Humbrol 159 + 1 x Humbrol 33 + 1 x Revell 84.

Tamiya: 5 x XF81 + 1 x XF58 + 1 x XF71.     

In use: May 1944-45 as standard basic overall colour.

Description:  A dark drab noticeably green.  Medium contrast with S.C.C. 1A, stronger with S.C.C. 14 black.  This is very definitely NOT a blue-green like Humbrol 30

 

If you are an enamel user,  Colourcoats do SCC15.  

 

HTH

 

 

HTH

T

[Don149]

Thanks Troy, but when worn camouflage finishes are concerned I`m not too pedantic . I remember seeing a freshly re painted Vampire at Dyce

and compared to the rest of the squadron the grey/ green paint was much darker , but the bod finishing it off said they were correct ,new from 

stores . The rest of the kites were faded to a lighter shade . But many thanks for your interest and input .

                                                                                                                                                                      Don .

[Troy Smith]

23 minutes ago, Don149 said:

but when worn camouflage finishes are concerned I`m not too pedantic . I remember seeing a freshly re painted Vampire at Dyce

and compared to the rest of the squadron the grey/ green paint was much darker , but the bod finishing it off said they were correct ,new from 

stores . The rest of the kites were faded to a lighter shade . But many thanks for your interest and input

Indeed, but this was peacetime, and kit lasted longer.   Valuable firsthand detail observation .   

 

A NW Europe Churchill VII during the war would be at most 11 months old (June 44 to May 45)  and I think SCC15 when aged got lighter/greener, not drabber.

 

I'd suggest adding some light green to Humbrol 155 if you don't want faff about too much, just to give it a bit of greeness, 

Your model to finish how you wish of course.

 

I added the paint links as in my youth (late 70's/early 80's) from what I could gather British tanks were either green or sand.... so it was fascinating to find out the full story, 

This is how my SCC15 mix using Vallejo came out

 

 

cheers

T

[IanC]

14 hours ago, Don149 said:

Thanks Troy, but when worn camouflage finishes are concerned I`m not too pedantic . I remember seeing a freshly re painted Vampire at Dyce

and compared to the rest of the squadron the grey/ green paint was much darker , but the bod finishing it off said they were correct ,new from 

stores . The rest of the kites were faded to a lighter shade . But many thanks for your interest and input .

                                                                                                                                                                      Don .

 

@Troy Smith is correct about the age of the vehicles, but the huge amounts of dust and dirt will effectively 'fade' the paint anyway. Look how grubby and obscured the paintwork is in these IWM images of Churchills in the UK and Italy. You'd be hard pressed to work out what the original colour was!   

 

  

 

 

Good luck with your AFV Club Mk VII. I've been considering doing one of these myself. I was going to go for a Mk IV which was the most numerous version (alongside the Mk VI CS) within the eight Churchill regiments in Normandy, but the Mk VII was certainly present and became more common as the NW campaign went on. The Churchill regiments were not involved on D-Day, of course - the earliest was 31st Tank Brigade which arrived in theatre in late June.

 

As for paint, you may also like to try AK Real Color RK 037 for the SCC.15, which doesn't look too bad to my eye. 

 

Ian

 

 

[Don149]

Thanks Troy , your suggestion is noted , and thanks for the pics Ian . It makes you wonder , what was the best camouflage , paint or mud ? .

I think this kit is one of the most  complex AFVs I`ve ever built , `looks very good ! . `Can get started now I`ve just finished the Italeri Kubel .

It should keep this old boy occupied `till the new big Lancaster lands .

                                                                                                              Cheers guys ,

                                                                                                                                   Don .

                                                                                                                                    

 

 

[Don149]

I`m currently building all the parts for the  working suspension . Most interesting and occupying ! . I think AFV Club must 

have copied the vehicle workshop manual , judging by the number of parts .

                                                                                                                        Don .

[zigster]

Well, what you're saying, AFV had some good papers and used them well in production of their 1:35 kits 🙂

And many guys were impressed by those models.

Carry On And Smile

zigster