Slater Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 The USAF evidently wants to start phasing out the F-22 by 2030. It's a relatively small fleet with high operating costs. Plus it's avionics are becoming rather outdated compared to current technology and upgrading would be very expensive. Supposedly the "Next Generation Air Dominance" fighter would then take over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spruecutter96 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 Am I the only one who thinks the F-35 has been a little "accident-prone" to date? I'm aware that ALL military aircraft suffer some losses, for a very large number of reasons, but still I'm wondering if all the Lightning's bugs have been ironed out, yet... Chris. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spruecutter96 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 On 4/15/2022 at 7:40 PM, Slater said: The USAF evidently wants to start phasing out the F-22 by 2030. I That's not good news. The F-22 is the second-most impressive airshow performer I've ever seen - only the Mig-29 OVT at RIAT 2006 was more impressive. Cheers. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenS Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 3 hours ago, spruecutter96 said: Am I the only one who thinks the F-35 has been a little "accident-prone" to date? I'm aware that ALL military aircraft suffer some losses, for a very large number of reasons, but still I'm wondering if all the Lightning's bugs have been ironed out, yet... Chris. Time for a little reality check. As of the beginning of April 2022, 780+ have been built in 3 different versions and have clocked up 500,000+ flying hours. https://www.f35.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/f35/documents/F-35 Program Lightning II Fast Facts - May 2022.pdf Military aircraft losses attract much more attention nowadays because they are so much rarer and we have a 24/7 news industry trying desperately to keep themselves in a job by generating a story even if there isn’t one. So what are the facts about the F-35 losses? It first flew in 2006 and entered service with the USMC in July 2015. In all that time only 8 have been lost, including one to a ground fire during the test programme in 2014. OK we have seen 3 losses since Nov last year. Now delve deeper. 3 significantly different versions of the aircraft involved. 3 different air forces. 3 completely different sets of circumstances (go read the reports). The only thing that they have in common is that the aircraft type begins F-35! https://eurasiantimes.com/f-35c-stealth-fighter-jet-crashes-becomes-only-the-2nd-f-35-to-goes-down/?amp Do I believe that all the bugs have been worked out of the 3 versions of the F-35? No I don’t. It is a hugely complicated aircraft with millions of lines of computer code. But the bugs never will be found if the aircraft is left sitting on the ground waiting for someone to go through each line of code, double, triple, quadruple checking every line of code with every other to check for conflicts. As the aircraft develops and more systems and functions are added more bugs will arise. That is unavoidable. Ask Microsoft. What I am, is glad to see the RAF getting another 26 to bring our operational fleet to 70 (plus 3 test aircraft plus the one lost to bring the total to be acquired to at least 74) plus the hope of even more to follow. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Wilson Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 It's a lot more reliable than it's English Electric namesake. Costs a bit more mind you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) Quite a change to flogging a Tornado for 40 years...... That's interesting back in the late 80s and early 90s in downtown Decimomanu the crab fairies /pinkie /greenies whatever they cslled them used to ....putting it nicely drip all day long about what a useless lump it was ....20/30 years later ....what a magnificent beast how opinions change ..ive no doubt F35 will be the same....hell of a difference between IOC and a developed FOC ....which will change over time. Still a minger though 😁 Meanwhile never R never underestimate the opposition we did that in 82 ....we learnt a lot of expensive lessons 😶 Edited May 3, 2022 by junglierating 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11bravo Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 On 5/3/2022 at 6:53 AM, spruecutter96 said: Am I the only one who thinks the F-35 has been a little "accident-prone" to date? I'm aware that ALL military aircraft suffer some losses, for a very large number of reasons, but still I'm wondering if all the Lightning's bugs have been ironed out, yet... Chris. The RAF loss was due to human error. Can't blame the aircraft for stupid humans. The book is still out on the recent USN loss at sea but there is a good chance that one may be pilot error. Keep in mind, at this stage there are a large number of F-35's flying. I wouldn't get too spun up about the mishap rates at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 We've come a long way since the horrendous accident rates of aircraft like the F-100 and F-104. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattheCat Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 What bothers me with the purchase of the F-35 by my country (Belgium) - as for other modern aircraft and weapons systems - is their (overall - not only price) cost relative to the global budget allowed to our armed forces. To my eyes, the means are not in line with the needs. - the F-35's themselves are acquired in limited numbers, unsufficient for a (relatively) long high-intensity conflict - to add insult to injury, even the limited purchase of F-35's impacts other highly needed acquisitions, that have been delayed or even scrapped. Also, to be used to its full capabilities, the LIghtning II should ideally work in a highly integrated network encompassing "classic" fighters and advanced assets in electronic warfare, early warning, recon, data analysis, coms, command ...... where are these integrations on an European level? I certainly don't wish to pay more taxes but putting new roof tiles over a weakened framework is not good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiampieroSilvestri Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) Exactly the same what our Belgian colleague said can be put one to one for almost all other countries that bought the aircraft."Convince" a country to buy it no matter if it is the wrong aircraft for them. Saluti Giampiero Edited May 5, 2022 by GiampieroSilvestri 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 It seems that Belgium could have replaced it's old F-16's with new Block 70's. Some of the same infrastructure and support equipment could have been reused, and the airplane is much more capable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattheCat Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 1 hour ago, GiampieroSilvestri said: Exactly the same what our Belgian colleague said can be put one to one for almost all other countries that bought the aircraft.Persuade a country to buy it no matter if it is the wrong aircraft for them. Saluti Giampiero Hi Giampiero, My opinion is not that it's the "wrong" aircraft, as our duties for NATO include deep strike againt strongly defended targets (b.o air defences themselves) and nuclear strike. So we needed the best available strike aircraft. I do agree that it's the "Wunderwaffe" or "Jack of all trades" Lockheed pretends but it's still a great weapon with some - for now - unmatched capabilities. My gripe is about it being our only aerial asset. My belief is that , besides, we absolutely need some up-to-date F-16's (just an example) as a back-up for less demanding missions and modern AA systems for our airfields/ground forces. Cheers. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 4:18 AM, Giorgio N said: The Russian ground forces are sure having serious problems but their air forces are doing their job pretty well, so I'd not underestimate them. Current Russian "philosophy" (and former Soviet) is to have air superiority over the frontline, they don't care about having air superiority over the rest of the enemy areas (contrary to the US concept to try and achieve air superiority over the whole theatre of operation, frontline and all rear areas, ideally the whole enemy country). This is what their air forces are doing today over Ukraine and they are doing this pretty well. Every time the Ukrainian air forces have tried to operate over the front line they have suffered losses without being able to support their ground forces. Only the Ukrainian drones can fly, anytime their Su-25s or even the Su-27s have tried to operate in those areas they have been succesfully countered The Russian Air Force has not been doing well in Ukraine, if they were the ground forces wouldn’t be taking such a beating. It’s shocking they have not established air supremacy, yes they have air superiority, they do not have supremacy. They have lost a lot of airframes and are not flying during the day. The entire Russian military has been a collective failure, the navy has lost ships to a nation without a naval force, the Airforce much the same, and when their army fights face-to-face they are being resoundingly defeated. Instead of attacking military targets the Russian has resorted to attacking hospitals, schools, cities, and defenseless civilians. I expect the Russians to suffer an attack during their May 9th parade in Moscow. Easy targets and their security intelligence is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 On 4/15/2022 at 12:40 PM, Slater said: The USAF evidently wants to start phasing out the F-22 by 2030. It's a relatively small fleet with high operating costs. Plus it's avionics are becoming rather outdated compared to current technology and upgrading would be very expensive. Supposedly the "Next Generation Air Dominance" fighter would then take over. And they have the F-35 coming up to speed. The US can afford to do things like this, they have the funding and support for always improving. They are able to have a diverse fleet (F-16s) beyond the F-35s, because again, they have the funding for all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 On 5/4/2022 at 2:46 PM, 11bravo said: The RAF loss was due to human error. Can't blame the aircraft for stupid humans. The book is still out on the recent USN loss at sea but there is a good chance that one may be pilot error. Keep in mind, at this stage there are a large number of F-35's flying. I wouldn't get too spun up about the mishap rates at this point. Procedure error not deliberate and whilst it maybe obvious to check that there were two intake blanks there maybe reasons why what happened happened which we are not privy to. So to call the AET ,flight killick ,deck PO or anyone stupid is in my opinion ....premature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 The F-35A is somewhat smaller but heavier (empty weight) than an F-105D Thunderchief. So there's a lot packed into that airframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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