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Armstrong Whitworth Whitley Mk. V***FINISHED***


PeterB

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Nice to see some good progress! I think the fuselage is indeed a little over engineered, mine fitted decently enough but it did need some filler. I also had some gaps around the engine nacelles but as in your case, nothing a bit of filler didn't fix. 

I found the best solution for the awkward engine fronts was to bend a paperclip in just the right way.

 

If you want to take a look at mine to compare to:

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

I found the best solution for the awkward engine fronts was to bend a paperclip in just the right way.

 

 

 

I cheated outrageously on mine and cemented the radiator fronts to one cowling half before attaching the other.  I've also found that they can be fiddled in from behind through the wheel well, allowing cement to be applied by brush or needle applicator on the blind side of the joint, before installing the fire wall. 

Edited by stever219
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Hi Mike,

 

Take your time and dry fit frequently - I probably did not do enough of that hence some at least of my problems. The wing/engine nacelles are a potential weak point so paint as little of those as you can get away with before assembly - you should be able to get at most of it afterwards.

 

Pete

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Another point to note if building this kit - the sprue attachments for the ailerons, elevators and rudders are often on the little bits that stick out and go in slots so watch where you are cutting them off - unlike me!

 

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Now it begins to look like the flying barndoor aka Whitley! The rudders will not be glued on until much later as those balance weights or whatever they are, are very vulnerable! It is ready for a wash then I can start painting.

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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I have given it a coat of primer and it looks pretty good. 

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Most of the joints I had problems with now just look like panel lines, but one or two would perhaps benefit from a little more filler. Once done I will leave the primer to set for 24 hours before starting the top coat.

 

Pete

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2 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

Looking very smart in the primer, which scheme is it you're doing?

The early war one Adam.

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I will probably go for the kit scheme for 102 Squadron in March 1940, though I may make a couple of changes. I will need to put on a second coat of green and brown, maybe more with the latter as it does not cover quite as well as the green. Looking at the above pic I have realised just how small the fixed vertical tail surfaces are compared with the big rudders - perhaps something to do with the deep slab sided fuselage which would provide considerable lateral stability, but need quite a bit of rudder area to make the ruddy thing turn!

 

Pete

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Except for a bit of tidying up and of course the rudders, all the main painting is now done.

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I have used Xtracrylic Dark Earth, Dark Green and Night. Like their white which has a slight touch of yellow the black has a hint of blue. In both cases they still look white/black but it tones them down just a little compared with the bog standard colours. So now it is close to having the decs put on. As most of you will know, In 1938 the roundels changed to mostly what we call small B type red/blue ones - not sure if that is an official name or not. By the start of the war many planes were carrying the large A1 red/white/blue/yellow ones on the upper wings and fuselage and had A Type ones under the wings and large white serials. The underwing markings were removed fairly early on, and the upper wing roundels switched back to a large B type, and at the time this plane is being modelled, in March 1940, fin flashes were just beginning to make an appearance on Whitleys, initially the full height of the vertical tail though that would be reduced to the more common rectangular flash fairly quickly. On some squadrons attempts were made to "dull down" the markings, either by reducing the amount of white or overpainting it with blue. On this machine it seems that the outer yellow ring may have been overpainted instead though sources disagree on that point. Airfix provide a dec with the yellow overpainted so will see what that looks like - I may end up with a normal A1 roundel as shown in Warpaint!

 

Pete

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Thanks Chris,

 In your list I suspect that they are thinking only of upper wing roundels when they say the A1 only went to 1939 - on the fuselage it actually lasted at least to the end of 1941 and probably into even into 1942 when they were replaced by the C1 though some units may well have thinned down the yellow outer ring..

 

In the meantime I have spotted what I think is an error by Airfix - they have moulded the locating holes for the two radio masts on the centreline, when my sources suggest they were, like the D/F loop, well over to Starboard!.

 

Pete

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2 hours ago, PeterB said:

In the meantime I have spotted what I think is an error by Airfix - they have moulded the locating holes for the two radio masts on the centreline, when my sources suggest they were, like the D/F loop, well over to Starboard!.

 

Pete

 

Actually, on the Merlin-powered Whitleys, it looks like the masts were on the port-side of centre. The Tiger-powered early variants did have them on the starboard side.

 

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52091835006_5a32f80239_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

Chris

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That's interesting Chris.

 

The plans in the Warpaint book definitely show them on the Starboard side on a Mk V, but as you say photos show them on the Port which perhaps fits with where the radio is in the kit!

 

Out with the drill and filler!

 

Pete

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The exhausts and undercarriage are on.

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To my mind Airfix have not thought this out as well as they could. The main legs have small tabs that go into sockets in the bulkhead, but structurally that is not very strong so I have reinforced the joint with CA. The "Y" shaped support strut is even worse. The back end has a tab which is meant to go in the rear bulkhead, but that is hidden inside the nacelle at this stage so you just have to poke it through a slot and hope you find the socket. As to the front forks they have no positive locating points on the legs and the illustration in the instructions is not very helpful, so more CA was used - I have some doubts about the strength of the undercarriage joints so care will be needed when handling the kit from now on - at least it is not that heavy! According to my plans the legs angled forward slightly but I may have overdone it slightly. As you can see I have gone for black wheel well interiors and will do the same with the doors, but have painted the legs and hubs in aluminium as many seem to have been early in the war - later they seem to have been overpainted in black.

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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I have put the wheel doors on so that is the underside finished except for a little touching up. Then I will turn it over and put the rudders on.

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In the meantime I have made a start on the turrets. Normally I would paint the parts on the sprue but as it looked a bit fiddly, coupled with the tight tolerances on these later Airfix kits, I assembled them first and painted later.

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On the left is the nose turret with its single drum fed Vickers K, and on the right the rear turret with four Brownings. I now need to work out whether any of the glazing needs painting grey/green  - I would imagine the back of the rear turret will but I am not sure about the nose one so I will see what info I have as Airfix don't give any paint instructions on that subject though they do say the base and gun mounts were. I am on the last page now!

 

Pete

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Thanks Adam,

 

It seems that the rear FN4 turret had a conventional solid back with the access door in it, but the nose turret was completely glazed as the gunner got into it from the bomb aimer's position underneath - I will need to paint the underside and the sling type seat as it will be visible through the lower glazing. Incidentally, just had another look at your build and you were right - Airfix have completely forgotten the locating holes for the pitot and D/F loop, though they did remember to tell you to drill out the one for the rear radio mast, even though that and the hole for the front one are on the centreline and so probably wrong. It is almost as if they either lost interest part way through the design, or somebody else did the parts with the various holes, engine fronts and undercarriage who was not as good! Still, all in all it is rather a nice kit but I have run into some problems right at the end. 

 

Firstly, as I suspected, the Eduard mask set is probably faulty - looks like the laser or whatever they cut them with did not go quite deep enough, which may explain why they are almost invisible on the sheet. Not only are they difficult to find in the first place, but then I am having considerable difficulty getting them to come off the sheet, which is a real PITTA! On top of that, the aperture for the gun in the front turret is far too narrow. It is not the usual case of a bit of flash from a worn mould as I pre-ordered it when the release was first announced so the mould should be perfect, and anyway is not thin flash but thickish plastic, though a lot thinner than the old turrets used to be. With great care and a new scalpel blade I managed to widen it enough for the barrel to go through, but then had to go a bit further as the "shield" on the gun also has to go in the gap it seems, though I narrowed that a little as well. Not at all what I was expecting from this kit, so once more no points for Airfix on this part.

 

I have asked Eduard for an explanation so it will be interesting to see what they have to say.

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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Well, instead of keeping the best till last as the saying goes, Airfix seem to have done just the opposite - the last few bits are rather a pain fit wise. 

 

Let's start with the rear turret. 

In both Germany and the UK in the late 1930's there was a concern about bombers being attacked from underneath and/or from the side and this initially resulted in retractable “dustbin type” ventral turrets on the Ju 52/3, Ju 86, He 111, Wellington, Whitley, Manchester and maybe the early Halifax bombers. In practice it was found that these turrets were of limited value and that when extended they caused considerable extra drag, resulting in a loss of speed of up to 25mph at just the time when the aircraft needed maximum speed to escape from interception. Before long all were deleted though of course the US B-17 and B-24 introduced rather better versions as the so called “Ball turrets”. To provide the relevant side cover, most turned to either waist guns or mid upper turrets, but in the case of the Whitley the rear fuselage was extended starting with the Mk IV so that the rear turret could traverse round to 90o, and this is a feature of this kit, though I had not worked out why Airfix provide two slightly different bases, one for the early camo version I am doing and one for the slightly later all black 10 Squadron option. They also provide two different cockpit canopies, the 10 Squadron version having an astrodome and yet I have not been able to find that variation in any of my sources. Unlike many of the later Airfix kits there are no surviving intact Whitleys so I doubt they would be able to use their laser measurement system on this, though I believe there is one recovered crashed aircraft – I am not therefore sure where they got their information from.

 

With the rear turret now capable of turning so far to the side, a problem was experienced as it unbalanced the airflow and caused the plane to pull to one side, so before long a pair of "balancing aerofoils" were added - so for example if the turret was turned to Port the aerofoil on the opposite side would extend to even out the drag. Airfix have provided these items as shown below. Both are in what I will call the "neutral" position for a turret pointing aft. Looking at pics I think they should be more "rounded" but there we are.

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Unlike the canopies and turret base there is no suggestion in the instructions that they are only applicable to one option but I have no idea exactly when they were introduced. However, it is now clear that they cause problems if the base for option "A" is used as it is slightly wider that the option "B" one at the rear so I suspect that Airfix were working on the idea that the one I am modelling (Option A) did not have them. I got round that with filing the base down a little, and as with the front turret I had to widen the slots to allow the paired gun barrels to fit. 

 

Next we come to the nose turret. It fits fine, but then you have to add a "glasshouse" between it and the fuselage,

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The instructions do say that you will need to remove a bit of the plastic from it at the top where it goes over the turret - but the fit is poor and I will have to take a bit more off if I can, though that will leave it dangerously thin - I guess that is why Airfix moulded it the way they did as it would be too fragile otherwise but again it is a pain. I also had to take a fair bit off the front of the canopy section as it was fouling the top of the IP - all the glazed bits in question are not yet glued on as I will have to paint most if not all of them first - getting a good part of the masks off the turrets would be difficult if not impossible once in place with the way they fit. Oh, and a word of warning to anybody thinking of building this kit - watch the pilot's seat as it can cause problems with the canopy if it leans at all to the port side - I managed to move mine just enough to get it on!

 

Speaking of masks Eduard have apologised and are sending a replacement set, but I could not risk waiting so I put them on and that was a real bind -there are no less than 40 on the canopy alone! I managed to get most of them off the sheet eventually but a few were perhaps stretched in the process as they were a little too big and had to be trimmed once in place. I just hope it  was worth the effort.

 

So this kit is proving to be a bit of a mixed bag in terms of fit, but I dare say I will get there in the end.

 

Pete.

Edited by PeterB
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Thanks for a full and frank build commentary Peter. My previous impression from reading reviews and builds was that the kit fitted together well, but there certainly seem to be gotchas in there.
 

Looks like I made the right decision to build my old FROGspawn kit when I bought this one. The Airfix Whitley remains untouched in the box…

 

Looking forward to your last lap on this.

 

Regards,

Adrian

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Hi Adrian,

 

In the past, when either myself or my son were thinking of buying new computer software, I always tended to wait a few months after it was released to allow time for any bugs to show up and hopefully be fixed. With kits the tendency is for moulds to go off after a few years so brand new ones like this should be "perfect" but I am wondering if in this case Airfix did not get it quite right and it may be they have sorted some of the problems since I bought it. Things like the lack of locating holes and the undersized or mis-moulded gun slots in the turret glazing could perhaps have come to light and been corrected on re-release but I may be wrong. At least you are now aware of the potential problems. On the plus side it comes with all the interior detail you could want except for seat belts so no need for scratch building!

 

Pete

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13 minutes ago, PeterB said:

At least you are now aware of the potential problems.


Indeed, and all the same I encountered when I built my Whitley yonks ago. I’d build another in a heartbeat, though.

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1 hour ago, Heather Kay said:


Indeed, and all the same I encountered when I built my Whitley yonks ago. I’d build another in a heartbeat, though.

Thanks Heather,

 

In spite of the problems it is still a nice kit. I guess I would give Airfix a score of 9 out of 10 for it.

 

Pete

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  • PeterB changed the title to Armstrong Whitworth Whitley Mk .V-PROBLEMS!

I am beginning to wonder if this kit is cursed or something. The masks have not worked very well , partly no doubt because of the problems I had, but also due to the fact that Airfix have made all the frame lines very narrow. That I can deal with by touching them up I guess, but I have run into a major problem with the rear turret. These days I normally use a canopy cement such as Clearfix but for some reason it was not holding the turret glazing very well so I used a toothpick to put a tiny amount of normal cement on - I must have been clumsier than usual as some seems to have got on the gun mount on one side and transferred itself to the glazing making quite a mess. I have tried polishing it off but it is hard to get at and the plastic is very fragile, I may be able to camouflage it with interior paint to some extent but I am rather annoyed with myself.

 

Unless anybody happens to have a spare part F-04 and perhaps the back F-03 left over from one of their builds - perhaps the civil version such as Adam @Adam Poultney - then I will approach Airfix and see if I can buy a replacement. However that could take weeks so this may not get finished by the deadline! Alternatively the one from the Falcon set might work - I know it was intended for the old Frog kit but they made it somewhat wider judging by the instructions so a spare one of those may be useful.

 

Pete

 

PS. I will come back to the masks if and when the replacement set arrives but unless they are better I cannot recommend buying them. The main problem is that they are almost all too big, which may be due to them not being cut correctly or because I had to use considerable force to get them off the backing sheet and they may have stretched. Also, the frame lines Airfix have moulded are extremely thin which may be prototypically correct but might have resulted in Eduard making the masks too big. Whatever the reason, although I painted over them twice most had no paint on them when the masks were removed, though I suppose that being so thin it could have peeled off with the ruddy masks. By the time I have repainted the lines and cleaned them up with a cocktail stick I might just as well not have bothered with the masks at all - I wonder if anybody else had a similar problem - perhaps the Xtracrylic paint does not stick too well on parts that have been dipped in Pledge?

Edited by PeterB
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