Review Build Vultee Vengeance Mk.II 1:48 Dora Wings

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, georgeusa said:

that stymied me with the butt joined wings and getting them aligned correctly.  Still working on that problem. 

When Ive encountered this issue on kits, I build in wing spars. In a case like this measure the inside width of the wing to get the thickness. Then find a piece of brass or aluminum tube thats slightly smaller in diameter. Once your have that figure out the total length needed from one wing through fuselage into opposite wing. In this case 6-7 inches minimum, more if you can get the space internally on the wings. The reason why you need smaller pieces, is to slip inside the wings with a bit of looseness at this stage. If the spars encounter resistance on the interior of the wing when test fitting use a pair of pliers to crimp the tubing into an oval. Next get a drill bit and drill the holes fully through both sides of the fuselage. This will create the alignment needed in both wings. One or two holes depending on number of spars you’ve decided on.
         Test fit the spars they should be slightly loose inside the wings at this point. If everything aligns great, add your C/A or epoxy of choice and glue the wings on. The C/A or resin holds the spar securely and you glue the plastic wing/fuselage joint as you normally would. The glue of choice C/A or resin will fill any space and eliminate the looseness left from testing. This works well and its something Ive done multiple times over the last 30 years. 
 

Dennis

[Mike]

8 hours ago, georgeusa said:

  I have a half completed AZ 1/48 version that stymied me with the butt joined wings and getting them aligned correctly.  Still working on that problem. 

it’s not the easiest with the Vengeance, as the bomb bay is behind the wing root, unless you’re closing up the bay doors of course. To do it with this kit I’d have had to make a new part of the spar that goes across the bay, extend that into the landing gear bays and try to fit it all together after. I decided that it would be too much like hard work for this one, so I fettled the wings and both sockets so they fitted really well.  A lot of test fitting went on until I was happy enough. Then I held it in place while I flooded the joint with liquid glue, and carried on holding it until it was at least firm.  Then I put the other one using the same method (pre-fettled of course) and popped the whole thing on a jig from EBMA that I’d set up in anticipation.  I know! Me, preparing something in advance!

[georgeusa]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:04 AM, Mike said:

Thanks George, good to see you and your avatar again Didn't you say that's your wife?

That is SWMBO succeeding in getting my attention at work when I thought reading a pleading was far too important than paying her mind.  She has even more brains than beauty as after this picture, she went on to summarize the pleading as she had already read it and was in the process of responding to it.  I am always at her mercy.  She has been a gem these last few hard years and been there for my reconstruction.  Her only little niggle is sometimes she questions why I need another kit when there is an entire room full of unbuilt kits gathering dust.  I have not yet succeeded in seeing the logic of getting the next, anticipated kit when there are so many of them in the stash that at the time was "the next anticipated" kit.

[georgeusa]

On 4/8/2022 at 1:34 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

When Ive encountered this issue on kits, I build in wing spars. In a case like this measure the inside width of the wing to get the thickness. Then find a piece of brass or aluminum tube thats slightly smaller in diameter. Once your have that figure out the total length needed from one wing through fuselage into opposite wing. In this case 6-7 inches minimum, more if you can get the space internally on the wings. The reason why you need smaller pieces, is to slip inside the wings with a bit of looseness at this stage. If the spars encounter resistance on the interior of the wing when test fitting use a pair of pliers to crimp the tubing into an oval. Next get a drill bit and drill the holes fully through both sides of the fuselage. This will create the alignment needed in both wings. One or two holes depending on number of spars you’ve decided on.
         Test fit the spars they should be slightly loose inside the wings at this point. If everything aligns great, add your C/A or epoxy of choice and glue the wings on. The C/A or resin holds the spar securely and you glue the plastic wing/fuselage joint as you normally would. The glue of choice C/A or resin will fill any space and eliminate the looseness left from testing. This works well and its something Ive done multiple times over the last 30 years. 
 

Dennis

 

On 4/8/2022 at 5:38 PM, Mike said:

it’s not the easiest with the Vengeance, as the bomb bay is behind the wing root, unless you’re closing up the bay doors of course. To do it with this kit I’d have had to make a new part of the spar that goes across the bay, extend that into the landing gear bays and try to fit it all together after. I decided that it would be too much like hard work for this one, so I fettled the wings and both sockets so they fitted really well.  A lot of test fitting went on until I was happy enough. Then I held it in place while I flooded the joint with liquid glue, and carried on holding it until it was at least firm.  Then I put the other one using the same method (pre-fettled of course) and popped the whole thing on a jig from EBMA that I’d set up in anticipation.  I know! Me, preparing something in advance!

Dennis and Mike thank you for the ideas on how to beat the AZ Vengence into submission.  I have more than a few kits awaiting completion that I need to get up to speed.  I plan on building a couple of more easy kits OOB to get the cobwebs out of my severely limited construction and painting skills before I tackle the uncompleted kits left prior to my rebuild.  I finished the Serian with some measure of success and am just now completing a ME 109 from Tamiya.

 

It is people like you two that go out of your way to help incompetents like me better themselves in building kits.  On this site, this is the norm, other kit builders contributing ideas and solutions to kit problems rather than seeing how much they can crush someone's build by pointing out all of the faults and what should have been done.  Again, thanks to both of you for the ideas that will work to get me through a kit on the shelf of doom.

[Mike]

7 minutes ago, georgeusa said:

Her only little niggle is sometimes she questions why I need another kit when there is an entire room full of unbuilt kits gathering dust.  I have not yet succeeded in seeing the logic of getting the next, anticipated kit when there are so many of them in the stash that at the time was "the next anticipated" kit.

I was with you up until that part.   You should explain to your wife that it's just what we do. You're far from alone in that aspect of your hobby. Didn't you have some problems with your hands etc. and losing feeling in them?  Any recovery there?

[georgeusa]

21 hours ago, Mike said:

I was with you up until that part.   You should explain to your wife that it's just what we do. You're far from alone in that aspect of your hobby. Didn't you have some problems with your hands etc. and losing feeling in them?  Any recovery there?

I had two back operations and fusion of 4 neck vertebrae and the some feeling has returned to my hands.  I still have a lower back operation that I am putting off.  Seems my misspent youth activities in Southeast Asia resulted in some issues with  breaks that did not heal correctly.  Who knew!!!  Anyway, I am attempting to get back to modeling as the stash keeps growing but the output is severely lagging behind.  She knows I cannot resist some urges to acquire new kits.  It is far less expensive than the upkeep of her horses, dogs and cats!!

 

Your current build of the Vengeance is really excellent and inspiring.  I am going to look at your other build to see if it is posted on here.  I should have pictures of the ME 109 loaded up by tomorrow if I can figure out how to make the pictures upload correctly.  Sometimes technology and I do not mix well.

[Mike]

6 minutes ago, georgeusa said:

the stash keeps growing but the output is severely lagging behind.

I hear ya. Glad to hear you've had some improvements.  If you're putting off the last op, maybe have another look at why and talk it through with Mrs You.  It must be worth doing, and may improve things further

[georgeusa]

23 hours ago, Mike said:

I hear ya. Glad to hear you've had some improvements.  If you're putting off the last op, maybe have another look at why and talk it through with Mrs You.  It must be worth doing, and may improve things further

I've had three back operations and a complete ankle joint replacement, plus cataracts surgery in the last 3 years.  I'm just putting it off to enjoy at least part of the year without having to recover from another slice and dice.  Seems as if I'm being replaced little piece by little piece on a slow rebuild.

[Mike]

Just now, georgeusa said:

I've had three back operations and a complete ankle joint replacement, plus cataracts surgery in the last 3 years.  I'm just putting it off to enjoy at least part of the year without having to recover from another slice and dice.  Seems as if I'm being replaced little piece by little piece on a slow rebuild.

GeorgeUSA, the world's first Cyborg.  Resistance is futile! Having heard your catalogue of operations, I can't say I blame you wanting a rest.  I've had 3 ops on my hands over the years, and it takes about a year until you're somewhere near normal again (that'd be a change!), so yeah.  You know you best, so take it at your own speed

 

Guess what?   I got the basic blue on the underside of the vengeance last night.  I need to mask and spray the back-end white first before I do any colour modulation, but things is moving!

[georgeusa]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Guess what?   I got the basic blue on the underside of the vengeance last night.  I need to mask and spray the back-end white first before I do any colour modulation, but things is moving!

Way to go!!  Look forward to the pictures.  At least you are working on and completing projects.  Thank you for your kind words.  It is most appreciated.  You are a good man . . . or is it person . . . maybe individual . . . non-binary . . . cis . . . an animate carbon based functioning unit?  I can't keep up with designations.   Just whatever is appropriate to refer to you as, it is all good!!

[keithjs]

Very surprised to have my kit arrive from Dora Wings today. I went for the pre order deal a few months ago. Nice to know they're still safe and well at the moment.

[Mike]

2 minutes ago, keithjs said:

Very surprised to have my kit arrive from Dora Wings today. I went for the pre order deal a few months ago. Nice to know they're still safe and well at the moment.

Hopefully that's a good sign for Eugen and his colleagues.  Fingers crossed at least

 

I've squirted a bit of white on the back end, and will mask it off once the paint is fully cured, after a quick buff-down to remove any rough patches.  I don't know if it's my imagination, but it looks BIGGER now there's white on it. I can't get the turntable to move round full because of the wingspan, which makes it a bit tricky to turn it round.

[Tokyo Raider]

Looks wonderful!

[Mike]

Splattered a bit of blue on the underside last night, before realising I should have done the white tail and leading edges first   Not a big deal TBH, as I just squirted a liberal quantity of white on the three tail surfaces, a bit on the aft fuselage and some along the top and bottom leading edges of the wings and left it to cure overnight.  Today I put some masking over the tail areas and also masked up the leading edges, then touched up any white that had gone over the base blue.

 

 

I also squirted a bit of white undercoat in the Claude, which has a red tail.  I've also chosen the decal option with red spats too, just for a bit of a break from silver, so I'd better put some undercoat on that too

[Navy Bird]

On 12/04/2022 at 09:52, georgeusa said:

I've had three back operations and a complete ankle joint replacement, plus cataracts surgery in the last 3 years.  I'm just putting it off to enjoy at least part of the year without having to recover from another slice and dice.  Seems as if I'm being replaced little piece by little piece on a slow rebuild.

 

Rookie! I've had ten back surgeries (fused from T10 all the way to S1 plus C3-C4), two bouts of stage 4 lymphoma, titanium rod in my femur, Grave's disease, pleural effusion, hernia, etc. etc. Thanks to modern medical science I'm still here and able to put models together! Although I'm not able to make models as nice as Mike, I keep trying. Hopefully you won't catch up to me on those back surgeries though - they are pretty miserable. Being a fellow Yank you might remember the old Lay's Potato Chip commercial - "you can't have just one." I tell people that back surgeries are like that. Do everything you can to avoid them!

 

Meanwhile, the Vengeance is looking very tasty. What a beautiful kit and a superb job Mike is doing. If only we had such a nice kit in 1:72 - somebody give Arma a nudge.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[georgeusa]

22 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

Rookie! I've had ten back surgeries (fused from T10 all the way to S1 plus C3-C4), two bouts of stage 4 lymphoma, titanium rod in my femur, Grave's disease, pleural effusion, hernia, etc. etc. Thanks to modern medical science I'm still here and able to put models together! Although I'm not able to make models as nice as Mike, I keep trying. Hopefully you won't catch up to me on those back surgeries though - they are pretty miserable. Being a fellow Yank you might remember the old Lay's Potato Chip commercial - "you can't have just one." I tell people that back surgeries are like that. Do everything you can to avoid them!

Cheers,

Bill

Oh my goodness!!  I do feel like a rookie.  I am very glad you are still modeling and it gives me hope to get back to at least my prior level of incompetence.  What really held me down was when I had absolutely no feeling in my hands from the situation going on with the nerves in my neck and back.  Touch seems to be important in modeling.  Who knew?

 

Mike, we need another post and update on this model. 

 

By the way, Dora Wings, on their website has announced pre-ordering of this kit with proceeds going to the Ukrainian Army.  I am placing an order tomorrow and really don't care if I get the kit or not.  Their website does include the warning it may take awhile for them to get the kit to you. 

[Mike]

3 minutes ago, georgeusa said:

By the way, Dora Wings, on their website has announced pre-ordering of this kit with proceeds going to the Ukrainian Army.  I am placing an order tomorrow and really don't care if I get the kit or not.  Their website does include the warning it may take awhile for them to get the kit to you. 

 

I also noted that on my original review. Having said that, a member on here has already had his box, so it's not just a pipe-dream

 

I began putting the colour modulation on the wings last night, and as it's always a bit of a lottery whether it looks too light or not light enough, I left it overnight to cure.  It turned out well, so I'm going to finish the task later, after which I'll decide whether I need to mask off the underside while I pain the topsides.  It's not always necessary, but if it has a sharp demarcation, it's gotta be done    I'll try to remember to post up a pic of the underside later once it's finished

[Mike]

Da blue has been modulated, and in general it looks OK, but I'll review it later on and may tone it down a bit in places.  Here's what it looks like right now:

 

 

I even remembered to do the wee small bits as well, so there's hope for me yet. 

[Navy Bird]

5 hours ago, georgeusa said:

What really held me down was when I had absolutely no feeling in my hands from the situation going on with the nerves in my neck and back. 

 

I had peripheral neuropathy (numbness) in my hands - probably the same thing. I take Gabapentin four times a day and it really helps. I also think that simply using your hands and fingers helps a lot too. It's a good thing I model primarily in 1:72 scale so I can keep in shape manipulating little tiny bits.   

 

5 hours ago, Mike said:

I began putting the colour modulation on the wings last night, and as it's always a bit of a lottery whether it looks too light or not light enough...

 

That's for sure. The final varnish can really change what it looks like as well. I typically overdo it - it's a real skill to get it just right. I think what you've done on the underside looks good, especially if you add the typical oil streaks etc. I know you're very good at that!   

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Mike]

14 minutes ago, Navy Bird said:

I think what you've done on the underside looks good, especially if you add the typical oil streaks etc. I know you're very good at that!   

Thanks It's going to be one that's seen some action, as that hides the mistakes better I'm just taping up the sides at the moment, as although I've seen some freehand demarcations, it looks very tight, and I'd be unlikely to get it good enough.  I also thought about blutak sausages, but getting the curves on the sweeps at either side of the wing roots would have been a bit hit-and-miss.  I won't bother masking the complete undersides off, but I'm definitely putting a few pieces over the knee-caps at the front of the main gear bays.  That's just perfect for catching overspray

[georgeusa]

1 hour ago, Navy Bird said:

 

I had peripheral neuropathy (numbness) in my hands - probably the same thing. I take Gabapentin four times a day and it really helps. I also think that simply using your hands and fingers helps a lot too. It's a good thing I model primarily in 1:72 scale so I can keep in shape manipulating little tiny bits.   

Cheers,

Bill

I take the same medicine first thing in the morning when I get up.  It does help.

[Mike]

2 hours ago, georgeusa said:

I take the same medicine first thing in the morning when I get up.  It does help.

I used to too, them they switched me to pregabalin, but the side effects were worse than the pain, so I stopped

[cifenet]

Amazing details, great WIP, I enjoy following this one.

[georgeusa]

I'm wondering, from some of the off topic comments, how many members are building kits while on pharmaceuticals and their impression that they allow a better build or worse?  Might be an interesting survey.

 

Mike, I ordered this kit and another from Dora Wings last night.  I shall shamelessly steal the tips, techniques and ideas you have provided in this build for my build.  Thank you in advance.  I probably will give you credit though for guidance and  inspiration!!!!

 

Another post please. 

[Navy Bird]

18 hours ago, Mike said:

I used to too, them they switched me to pregabalin, but the side effects were worse than the pain, so I stopped

 

Agreed. That is nasty stuff - really messed with my mind, and my mind is messed up enough as it is.   

 

On with the Vengeance!   

 

Cheers,

Bill