neilfergylee Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Good morning. I am slightly embarrassed having to ask this question as I thought I would be able to answer it through my own resources. However, as is usual with such things, digging in to the detail tends to open-up rabbit holes. I wish to model a Seafire XV in the FAA temperate sea scheme and without any far east markings, i.e. allowing an easy side-by-side comparison with (say) a Spitfire XII in ocean grey and green. I have found the perfect specimen to model (see below) but I cannot answer this simple question: Would the spinner be Sky or white? Every source I have is completely contradictory and I feel it necessary to ask the combined knowledge of Britmodeller. (source: https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/seafire/seafire-xv-5h-o-806/) All assistance gratefully received. Kind regards, Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveWilko Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 One would say Sky Neil. Research many years ago seemed dictate that . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, DaveWilko said: One would say Sky Neil. Research many years ago seemed dictate that . Thank you Dave, I was leaning towards Sky too as I think white was more of a Far East scheme. Nonetheless, I do appreciate your advice, not least because most of the sources provided examples of both, but no explanation of the why or wherefore. Even my Ian Huntley articles don't seem to cover the period after about 1942. Thanks again, Neil Edited March 24, 2022 by neilfergylee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 For what it's worth, I'd favour Sky too. Justin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 As regards the spinner colour, your guess is as good as mine. I'd plump for Sky. Photo caption is a bit ropey. As a Seafire it is, almost by definition, a FAA, not an RAF, aircraft. The squadron code is O5H, not 5H-O: FAA squadron symbols (their name for codes) are letter/number/letter and always read the same left to right, regardless of the location of the roundel. Which means the presentation on the port side will most likely be O5-H. The squadron is 805, not 806. 805 received Seafire XVs in August 1945 and, after embarking in Ocean in June 1946, relinquished them in August 1946, when Seafire XVs were banned from deck landing due to technical problems. (I think this means they were just too dangerous for peacetime carrier ops: Mike Crosley records begging to be allowed to retain his squadron's old Seafire IIIs, rather than having to take the Seafire XV into the final stages of the Pacific war.) The photo background looks somewhere dusty: I'd speculate on Malta, which is the area Ocean was in when the Seafires were relinquished. Points of interest for your model: late sting-type arrester hook small squadron badge above fin flash dotted yellow "cut here" stencils around the edge of the sliding canopy hood. the serial looks to me like SR6x2 (can't swear to it though) but Ray Sturtivant's various works aren't much help in narrowing it down from that. What scale are you modelling in? In 1/72 Almark did a Seafire XV sheet with a number of options on it, mainly UK-based training aircraft but also a Canadian option I think. They may have done it in 1/48 as well. You may find a sheet secondhand somewhere. Good luck. Look forward to seeing the model. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Ramsden Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Seahawk is spot on with his identification and location. An original print of this photo is in our museum archives and shows SR6?2 of 805 Squadron FAA when at Hal Far, Malta, in 1946. We couldn't narrow the serial down to an individual aircraft. I don't use a photo hosting site but I'll gladly email a better copy of the image than the one above to anybody if they pm me their email address. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Hello Neil, by just looking at the photo you posted I would say Sky. I'm curious: which kit are you going to build? I'm just finishing my 1/48 scale Spitfire conversion (Eduard Mk.VIII and Airfix PR.XIX). Cheers, Antti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 13 hours ago, Bedders said: For what it's worth, I'd favour Sky too. Justin Thanks Bedders, I much appreciate your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 9 hours ago, Seahawk said: As regards the spinner colour, your guess is as good as mine. I'd plump for Sky. Photo caption is a bit ropey. As a Seafire it is, almost by definition, a FAA, not an RAF, aircraft. The squadron code is O5H, not 5H-O: FAA squadron symbols (their name for codes) are letter/number/letter and always read the same left to right, regardless of the location of the roundel. Which means the presentation on the port side will most likely be O5-H. The squadron is 805, not 806. 805 received Seafire XVs in August 1945 and, after embarking in Ocean in June 1946, relinquished them in August 1946, when Seafire XVs were banned from deck landing due to technical problems. (I think this means they were just too dangerous for peacetime carrier ops: Mike Crosley records begging to be allowed to retain his squadron's old Seafire IIIs, rather than having to take the Seafire XV into the final stages of the Pacific war.) The photo background looks somewhere dusty: I'd speculate on Malta, which is the area Ocean was in when the Seafires were relinquished. Points of interest for your model: late sting-type arrester hook small squadron badge above fin flash dotted yellow "cut here" stencils around the edge of the sliding canopy hood. the serial looks to me like SR6x2 (can't swear to it though) but Ray Sturtivant's various works aren't much help in narrowing it down from that. What scale are you modelling in? In 1/72 Almark did a Seafire XV sheet with a number of options on it, mainly UK-based training aircraft but also a Canadian option I think. They may have done it in 1/48 as well. You may find a sheet secondhand somewhere. Good luck. Look forward to seeing the model. 35 minutes ago, Ivor Ramsden said: Seahawk is spot on with his identification and location. An original print of this photo is in our museum archives and shows SR6?2 of 805 Squadron FAA when at Hal Far, Malta, in 1946. We couldn't narrow the serial down to an individual aircraft. I don't use a photo hosting site but I'll gladly email a better copy of the image than the one above to anybody if they pm me their email address. Thank you both for your comments. They are much appreciated, not least because decent information on Seafire XVs is hard to come by. I have three primary sources of information: The inch-thick Seafire history (picked up for a fiver!!), the Airframe & Miniature volumes and the dear old Aircam book from the early 1970s. I specifically wanted to go for an RN (not RCN) machine in full camouflage, so as to provide a contrast to RAF machines and I struggled to find other sources on the interweb. I am modelling in 1/48 and using the Special Hobby kit "Far East Service" - a fascinating set of colour schemes in their own right but not what I wanted on this occasion. The model will make an intersting contrast to my model of DP845 (the Mk.IV / Mk.XX / prototype Mk.XII) and also to the Airfix XII when it comes out next month. @Seahawk thank you for the additional 'gen'. I agree with your observations, not least the partially obfuscated serial number. Looking at my production list, I woiuld suggest it is one oif SR602, SR632 or SR642. Out of 20,000 Spitfire / Searfire airframes, gettting it down to three is good going! The dotted yellow 'cut here' makrings will make an interesting comparison with my Phantom FG.1! I promise to publish an image of the completed model: it goes into the paintshop this morning. @Ivor Ramsden thank you for your offer, I'll PM you in a few minutes. Best wishes, Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Antti_K said: Hello Neil, by just looking at the photo you posted I would say Sky. I'm curious: which kit are you going to build? I'm just finishing my 1/48 scale Spitfire conversion (Eduard Mk.VIII and Airfix PR.XIX). Cheers, Antti It's the Special Hobby Seafire XV. I'd love to see your conversion: do I take it you are making a decent Spitfire XIV? I used the rear fuselage of the rather disappointing Academy XIV with an Airfix F.22/24 to make a F.21 a few weeks ago. One of my more satisfying conversions! Cheers, Neil Edited March 25, 2022 by neilfergylee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 In case anyone is interested, this is what the 1/72 Almark sheet frpm 1990 looks like: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/almark-decals-s9-supermarine-seafire-mkxv--953456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Seahawk said: In case anyone is interested, this is what the 1/72 Almark sheet frpm 1990 looks like: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/almark-decals-s9-supermarine-seafire-mkxv--953456 That would have been very handy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, neilfergylee said: That would have been very handy! Your lucky day Neil, still in stock at Hannants. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, stevehnz said: Your lucky day Neil, still in stock at Hannants. Steve. Aaaagh - just realised, it's 1:72 and I'm doing 1:48! ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Oops, hadn't spotted that, fairly jumped off the page as I went looking for it. Sorry mate. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, stevehnz said: Oops, hadn't spotted that, fairly jumped off the page as I went looking for it. Sorry mate. Steve. No worries: I appreciate you looking for me. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Ivor Ramsden said: Seahawk is spot on with his identification and location. An original print of this photo is in our museum archives and shows SR6?2 of 805 Squadron FAA when at Hal Far, Malta, in 1946. We couldn't narrow the serial down to an individual aircraft. Ivor, image received. My money's on SR632- I think I can see two "points" just peeking out from under the 'O', which can't be a 0 or a 4. Sturtivant's postwar history has '632 with 806, which may be how the caption came to say that. bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 The problem was related to the gearbox, I think the one between the engine and prop rather than the supercharger at the back. The kind of single point failure that wouldn't be welcome on carrier operations. I must admit being a bit surprised that they went to sea in 1946 when the problem was known about in mid-1945. Perhaps there was a mod that was thought to cure the problem but didn't?. There are a number of more modern books on the Seafire which may help. One from Crowood, and more of a modelling/profile guide from Guideline. If you are interested drop me a pm and I'll dig out the correct titles/authors. I even have a couple of box-Brownie shots from my late father in law of Seafire XVs at Ayr, but they're of no help as regards serials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 5 hours ago, neilfergylee said: It's the Special Hobby Seafire XV. I'd love to see your conversion: do I take it you are making a decent Spitfire XIV? I used the rear fuselage of the rather disappointing Academy XIV with an Airfix F.22/24 to make a F.21 a few weeks ago. One of my more satisfying conversions! Cheers, Neil Hello Neil, my current project is a Mk.XII. It has been one of the easiest conversions I've ever made. Because the Eduard kit is so good I'm planning also a Mk.XIV in SEAC markings. One small detail for you, as Mk.XII and Seafire Mk.XV are closely related if I may: The torque caused a violent swing to Starboard during take-off runs as Griffon rotated counter-clockwise. Therefore the pilot had to apply left rudder. To ease the take-offs a lower oleo pressure was used on Port landing gear. So I cut a small length of the oleo away. I don't know whether similar measures were used on Seafire Mk.XVs. Cheers, Antti 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted March 27, 2022 Author Share Posted March 27, 2022 On 25/03/2022 at 14:55, Antti_K said: Hello Neil, my current project is a Mk.XII. It has been one of the easiest conversions I've ever made. Because the Eduard kit is so good I'm planning also a Mk.XIV in SEAC markings. One small detail for you, as Mk.XII and Seafire Mk.XV are closely related if I may: The torque caused a violent swing to Starboard during take-off runs as Griffon rotated counter-clockwise. Therefore the pilot had to apply left rudder. To ease the take-offs a lower oleo pressure was used on Port landing gear. So I cut a small length of the oleo away. I don't know whether similar measures were used on Seafire Mk.XVs. Cheers, Antti Thank you for that: I am intrigued by your conversion and hope to see more! Thanks also for the advice on the oleos: the Griffon spitfires were clearly quite a handful. Kind regards, Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 @Ivor Ramsden model complete, here is the finished article in a similar pose to the image you so kindly sent me. I have added a set of images here: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzKHTx Thank you all for your kind support and encouragement. Neil 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 More images here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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