USMC “Apache” M4a2 Iwo Jima 1945. DEAD ON ARRIVAL

[Longbow]

And, have you tried scaling up some plans to fit your hull against ?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

2 hours ago, Longbow said:

If you know the engine decks length, to the rear point of the furthest plate, and you know the angle and length of the hull rear plate, coming off, down from the engine plate, you should be good to go. 

Im going to show my complete noob-ness & lack of skills when it comes to math and a few other things here. Even if I could measure these, I don't understand how that would help. I only have a basic ruler and no way to figure angles out as my tool chest is basic when it cones to stuff for measuring. I can get the lengths you’ve mentioned from a ruler but not angle’s. As to your thoughts if scaling up plans another great idea that I cannot follow through. I own one book on Sherman tanks and that is 30+ years old. It is the ancient Squadron signal basic info soft cover on the tank. It doesn't even include certain models like the M4a2 or M4(105) as a separate models. To make things worse I only have cellular access to the web. I also have no access to a computer printer or anything similar here at my house. The closest thing would be a public library from which I could scale up an image found online. Sadly this is why I always ask so many questions on the Forum.

 

Dennis

[Longbow]

Sorry, just trying to help. 👍

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

5 hours ago, Longbow said:

Sorry, just trying to help. 👍

I know and do appreciate the help, its just difficult to do some things when your budgets about $30-40 a month. I only have models as I inherited a stash last year that really helped me to free up funds.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Longbow]

9 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I know and do appreciate the help, its just difficult to do some things when your budgets about $30-40 a month. I only have models as I inherited a stash last year that really helped me to free up funds.  

I have to admit that I’m totally defunct when it comes to math too, and my stuff is more by eye than careful measurements, but someone here has to have the answer for you. 
 

Maybe @Das Abteilung ?

 

A simple line drawing you could match your angles to ?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ok @Longbow & @Retired Bob and others. So I sent an Email to my mentor who is a certified Sherman fan. Asking about the lengths and differences. He actually decided to mimic my build by doing the same conversion using exactly the sane parts. Basically I asked him the same questions I posted on page one and his response was as follows.

 

 “The m4 and m4a2 were the same length. The M4A4 is the one with the longer hull to accommodate the multi bank engine. These are the tanks that were most commonly converted into fireflies.”

 

With that info I will proceed with the build and can start gluing things together, 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

         Hello everyone … Hoping all are well and safe ? I was able to get a good deal done on this tonight. 
 

 

I replaced the bow .30 with a barrel for the flamethrower. As of right now this is how she looks. And yes I did just box the entire thing in, there isn't an interior to speak of and the crew will fill the hatches so not much to see anyways. 

 

 

 

 

 

The tape is there so I can do the preliminary painting of the lower hull before mounting the suspension. Its just easier this way and Ive done every Sherman and Lee since I started building. The only gap I had was where transmission cover met the upper hull right behind the bolts. 

 

Some plastic strip took care of that pretty quickly. Ive drilled and added the barrel for the 2” smoke mortar. The kit had a hole but nothing in it.

 

 

Seeing as Tamiya already started down this path by adding a smoke Mortar hole. My goal is to update this turret by adding the loaders hatch. I will be building this ⬆️ into this as Tamiya gives everything but the red hatch. 

 

I will be doing all of this with this old Verlinden set Ive had for about 30 years. 

 

Please feel free to ask questions, post comments or add your thoughts. 

 

 

Dennis

[PlaStix]

Hi Dennis. That is some serious modelling going on here! It all looks to me as if it's progressing well. Lovely job.

It's always worth asking the questions, Problem is that there isn't always someone available to answer it at the time. I had that with a build a few years ago. Asked the question, no reply at the time so just winged it (yes it was an aircraft build! ) Of course as soon as i'd got the parts glued, someone kindly answered my question! Luckily it didn't take too much to correct my first go!

Kind regards,

Stix

 

[bigfoot]

Looking good, the modifications are working very nicely. Are you going to be addressing the drivers hoods as I believe they are the wrong shape for an M4A2, suitable only for the M4A4? It would be straight forward enough to make the welded boxy fisher hoods as they were the more prominent version for small hatch USMC M4A2’s.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

8 hours ago, bigfoot said:

Looking good, the modifications are working very nicely. Are you going to be addressing the drivers hoods as I believe they are the wrong shape for an M4A2, suitable only for the M4A4? It would be straight forward enough to make the welded boxy fisher hoods as they were the more prominent version for small hatch USMC M4A2’s.

Too be honest I didn't even know there was a difference ? To be truthful I doubt I will, only because my skills and scrap plastic pile probably won't allow for it. Not to mention that kind if modification probably should have been done before everything was glued together. Im already planning on another a2 so will address the hoods on that build. Unless Asuka has them correct ? I can get an Asuka M4a2 over-trees kit for $46 from sprue brothers here in the states. I call it over-trees because it plastic and instructions only. 
 

https://spruebrothers.com/asuas002-1-35-asuka-m4a2-sherman-direct-vision-type-with-early-vvss-suspension/

[Retired Bob]

55 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Too be honest I didn't even know there was a difference ? To be truthful I doubt I will, only because my skills and scrap plastic pile probably won't allow for it. Not to mention that kind if modification probably should have been done before everything was glued together. Im already planning on another a2 so will address the hoods on that build. Unless Asuka has them correct ? I can get an Asuka M4a2 over-trees kit for $46 from sprue brothers here in the states. I call it over-trees because it plastic and instructions only. 

If I were you Dennis I would not bother with any changes to the hoods and the Asuka kit is for an early M4A2 that still has the forward looking visors in the hull, they were called DV variants for direct vision as they hadn't been replaced with the cast hoods and periscopes.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, Retired Bob said:

If I were you Dennis I would not bother with any changes to the hoods and the Asuka kit is for an early M4A2 that still has the forward looking visors in the hull, they were called DV variants for direct vision as they hadn't been replaced with the cast hoods and periscopes.

Would it still be good for a Sherman Mk.III, Id like to do “Sheik”  someday ? 

[Retired Bob]

13 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Would it still be good for a Sherman Mk.III, Id like to do “Sheik”  someday ? 

It would be perfect for those early British Mk.III Sherman's, they were used in North Africa, Italy and some were still around in mid-44 for D-Day.  Who doesn't want to build 'Sheik' ?  

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Since I’m here anyone have a photo of my “Apache” ? The decals call for a splotchy paint but have no color call outs other than green base. I was thinking of mimicking other USMC Shermans in the Green, Brown, and Black/Dk.green splotches. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Mig Eater]

 

Here is a colour guide from the Bison decal set.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

        Good morning everyone … not much to report as Life been interrupting but did manage a start on the turret tonight. 
 

First up was to cut the inner loaders hatch from its molding block. Then using that I made a template with Tamiya tape. After an hour of very patient drilling and filing I was able to glue the inner ring in. 

 

Next up I free’d up the loaders hatch from its molding block and sanded the rough side smooth. It is placed here for mock up purposes only, as there will be four crew members in the hatches.  

 

I will do some preliminary painting soon so I can make up and mount the main gun, seal up the bottom of the turret, and mount the complete running gear.
         I did quite a bit of digging for 3rd Marine armor battalion company “A” tanks and found a couple of video clips as well as several still photo’s. Including many closely numbered sister tanks. I also was able to find a three view of an M4a3 Dozer in the camouflage pattern I believe Apache wore. Granted I modified it to a four view, but if anyone out there has an idea what this scheme looks like from above Id be very happy to see anything. 

 

 

 

 

I also found out that company “A”, never up armored their Sherman's. That really stinks as I was looking forward to doing that with wood, nails, and metal scraps. Please feel free to ask questions, post comments or add thoughts. 

 

Dennis

[edjbartos]

Really nice work on this Dennis, this is going to look smashing...

 

Ed

[PlaStix]

Hi Dennis. Good to see more progress. Looking good too!

Kind regards, 

Stix

[Jasper dog]

I'd say that's some pretty serious and rather impressive modelling, way beyond the pour in the glue and shake the box often associated with Tamiya. 

As Spencer P said recently who are we building for and competing with? At the end of the day the idea is to enjoy the build and I'd say your pretty much on point with that!

 

Great modelling. 

Darryl 

 

[Michael Taylor]

Oh Fudge. I saw this too late. 3rd tank Battalion M2's-no loaders hatch, no mortar, 55-gallon drum intake wading gear factory exhaust wading gear.. Apache has water can racks made of rebar on both sides of rear plate-no camo that I can see on any 3rd Btln tanks. sorry I was late

[Longbow]

[Michael Taylor]

On 4/13/2022 at 2:15 AM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

        Good morning everyone … not much to report as Life been interrupting but did manage a start on the turret tonight. 
 

First up was to cut the inner loaders hatch from its molding block. Then using that I made a template with Tamiya tape. After an hour of very patient drilling and filing I was able to glue the inner ring in. 

 

Next up I free’d up the loaders hatch from its molding block and sanded the rough side smooth. It is placed here for mock up purposes only, as there will be four crew members in the hatches.  

 

I will do some preliminary painting soon so I can make up and mount the main gun, seal up the bottom of the turret, and mount the complete running gear.
         I did quite a bit of digging for 3rd Marine armor battalion company “A” tanks and found a couple of video clips as well as several still photo’s. Including many closely numbered sister tanks. I also was able to find a three view of an M4a3 Dozer in the camouflage pattern I believe Apache wore. Granted I modified it to a four view, but if anyone out there has an idea what this scheme looks like from above Id be very happy to see anything. 

 

 

 

 

I also found out that company “A”, never up armored their Sherman's. That really stinks as I was looking forward to doing that with wood, nails, and metal scraps. Please feel free to ask questions, post comments or add thoughts. 

 

Dennis

3rd battalion only had M4A2 Shermans

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

8 minutes ago, Longbow said:

I don't think its an issue, this tank looks to be from “C” company. If you look at the back of the exhaust trunking it looks to have a “C” name ? Also it looks to be a wide hatch version judging on the way the drivers hatch is leaning. One of these going by the side art on the exhaust trunking.

 

https://spruebrothers.com/srd35c1078-1-35-star-decals-m4a3-sherman-on-iwo-jima/

 

The side art says Target o’clock. if you look at the link and the decal photo for this show Target O’clock. 
 

My best guess is the photo is that its King Cobra. The artwork on the sheet looks to have a faint circle artwork on the upper left rear of the exhaust trunk. 
 

Dennis

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

4 minutes ago, Michael Taylor said:

3rd battalion only had M4A2 Shermans

 

Thank you Michael, I appreciate any and all info but at this point its really too late now to do anything about it. You're correct from what little I can find “3rd battalion” was a mixed batch of early & mid narrow hatch and late wide-hatch a2’s in the unit. I also couldn't find anything disputing the idea of one of the mid production a2’s either getting a replacement turret or being built with one of the later types ? Granted I’m far from an expert on the subject and again if its wrong its too late now to do anything about it. So if its incorrect lets just say the original turret was damaged and replaced with a later type. Or that they opted to upgrade the turret for Iwo Jima. Besides this will be the second group build log where Ive been having issue’s with the subject matter. Im of the modeling mindset that if it at least looks like a 🦆, and quacks like a 🦆, then it must be a 🦆. My build at least looks like an M4 Sherman tank so it is an Sherman. 
 

Dennis

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, Michael Taylor said:

Oh Fudge. I saw this too late. 3rd tank Battalion M2's-no loaders hatch, no mortar, 55-gallon drum intake wading gear factory exhaust wading gear.. Apache has water can racks made of rebar on both sides of rear plate-no camo that I can see on any 3rd Btln tanks. sorry I was late

Sorry just saw this one myself, any photo’s of said rebar racks. If not too hard I will try to add them.  I have a color clip which looks to be from the war of a sister tank “Agony” which looks to be camouflaged with Brown and Black ? Granted its not the best image but doesn't look to be colored ? Just looked at some of my saved images and “Ann” #7 looks to have a large rust colored spot on the exhaust trunk. I wonder if its rust or paint ? 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Corsairfoxfouruncle