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The Minor Gustavs: Bf 109Gs in Smaller Air Force Service


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Finland and Slovakia (both Airfix G-6s) have their undersides complete. This is Slovakia:

 

y4m7IvxbOrjHu3JbcAxbv2EX2mFsY-aA59G8NX7C

 

Other Slovakia UC parts are completed too: wheels, legs, doors, rear wheel, and drop tank.

 

y4mAQuT8zzoJB_dYVhsg3K3Nq8ZCT8XYNpg3zCJX

 

Slovakia is close to being packed back up for awhile while I focus on Finland (and other models on the bench!). By the way, is anyone aware of photographs of the Slovak G-6s? I cannot seem to find any for reference.

 

Here's Finland, whose wheels/UC doors are fitted now too.

 

y4mnWNPcBRZ85aBy0QjPHGOeJhUltTjLCSg-BsJR

 

I've also begun the topside camo on Finland. I've settled for Tamiya XF-13 for the green, so that's going on now. 

 

y4mC75GIlRzeVeiLS8aHFPbu9QukQRHw2Vz6zGZc

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 31/12/2022 at 00:20, ModelingEdmontonian said:

By the way, is anyone aware of photographs of the Slovak G-6s? I cannot seem to find any for reference.

asisbiz lists this as a G-4, but they didn't have the 13mm cowl guns,  but looks like the box art except 6 rather than 2.

 

 

Messerschmitt-Bf-109G4-13.JG52(Slow)-Whi

 

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/JG52-Slow.html

 

the only other I can recall is the one Slovak insurgent one with the Tri-Sestry markings

tri sestry= three sisters, Slovak mountains, the black line on the white and red bit

Slovakia-captured-Messerschmitt-Bf-109G6

 

@SafetyDad @G.R.Morrison @David E. Brown  may know of others.

 

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52 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Helps me think through Slovakia in a few regards, but especially helpful in terms of those fuselage strips.

I note the box art

y4mRN6RMZX7DIlFfAB3axoi3OwzK_BwzKQTubNX1

 

has the fuselage cross and swastika painted out in green,  but i don't see any real tonal difference between the 74 gray and the over painted areas.  

Maybe as the AZ are Czech they know something, and I have no knowledge of the Slovak G-6's apart from the above images, and I'd not seen 6 before either. 

there maybe more in this, but not i book I own or have even browsed.

http://modelingmadness.com/scott/books/osprey/slovakaces.htm

slovakaces.jpg

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

but i don't see any real tonal difference between the 74 gray and the over painted areas.  

good point. 

12 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Maybe as the AZ are Czech they know something

Since the green adds interest I may defer to AZ unless I come across something suggesting otherwise. We'll see...

 

In the meantime, I have a couple of roundels on Finland's underside.

 

y4m3SjomEF8g6tajHRUbkQesdSodLXqXjVA7yDD9

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On 3/22/2022 at 12:30 AM, ModelingEdmontonian said:

And, finally, Bulgaria. Again, there is a Bulgarian version on the Lift Here decals sheet.

 

y4m6LSiQsvEE02axvh2uX1oSS9fVb5DzpVIQQV5c

 

And also in this other Mistercraft kit:

 

y4mC6_Oxg50rB899nstUj6-orwJd_36uJjqaPp1g

y4mHMO1KVxyxjO74tcETJBJxyzDwdca6OB_wov_B

 

But, the postwar option on this sheet looks much more interesting!
 

y4m7r3jl4WZPeoDjV9odBAAbHATAcJuP_vYeiJp6

 

That's a tall tale G-6, right? And what about the middle one? Not a G-6, I'm pretty sure, but I don't know what it is!

 

Oh, this is a lovely project! Nice to see Gustavs under "minor" liveries being depicted, many of these overlooked machines saw heavy combat during the war! 

 

Green 6 is a WNF built G-2 W.Nr. 14789 with local registration (the white triangle on the tail) 25/7057 of 682 ято, 3/6 орляк (682nd Squadron, 3rd Fighter Group) in Summer 1943, flown by Petar Bochev. Bochev became an ace, he downed a B-24 on August 1st 1943 in this Gustav. He went MIA on October 5th 1944 after being shot down while strafing German ground units. The mottling should be of the more subdued, feathered type. RLM04 yellow wingtips both upper and lower side.

 

The second one is almost certainly based on a very famous photo of a G-4 taken sometime in Winter 1944-45, Bulgaria having joined the Allies and the quick ID markings turned white. It should be a standard mid-war RLM 74/75/76 heavily oversprayed by a mid green (Denes Bernad calls it "Bulgarian green" of unidentified origin in Bulgarian Fighter Colors Vol.I-II) with pale grey squiggles. I'd go for RLM 62 Green.

 

The last one is indeed a tall tail G-6 of unnamed mark. Bulgaria operated several hundred Gustavs after the war, many late mark trophies, some were apparently G-10s with the old buele instead of the more streamlined cowlings typical for the G-10. By the late 1940s, I'd guess at least the grey tone was a Soviet AMT color. For the green, I'd still go RLM 62.

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20 minutes ago, Ventsislav Gramatski said:

some were apparently G-10s with the old buele instead of the more streamlined cowlings typical for the G-10.

this would only work of they were re-engined with an A or AM engine. 

The DB605 AS and D engines HAVE to have the refined cowl on the port side, they have a larger supercharger and this needs a larger engine bearer arm, which is why they came up with the refined cowling, as this then blended in the buele bumps at the same time.

The port cowling of the DB605A engine cannot fit over this new engine bearer.

You could fit a DB605A into a G-10, and then fit the earlier covers,  and on paper it would be a "G-10"  but really a G-10 is a late model G with a DB605 D engine, there are various different G-10's, both new builds and rebuilds, as well as factory specific differences,  each factory had it's own type of cowling, the WNF and Messerschmitt are very similar, the Erla cowling has various quite different features.   

Late war 109's are very very complex in detail, and add in post war rebuilds....   

 

HTH

 

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Mr. Smith's photos of belly-landed WNr.161717 (which is indeed, a G-6) were taken 26.June 1944, following an engagement against an immense daylight raid by B-24s and B-17s, with P-38 and P-51 escorts.  Zastavnik Pavel Zelenak was wounded returning to Piestany, and made a high-speed forced landing near Brunovce.  Zelenak made 12 claims (all Soviet aircraft, including four Il-2s), and survived the war.

 

GRM

 

"Ich bin kein ‘Experte,' nur Historiker.”

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On 1/29/2023 at 5:08 AM, ModelingEdmontonian said:

In the meantime, I have a couple of roundels on Finland's underside.

Hi!

 

Excuse me to bring bad news, but Airfix has got the topside camouflage in a mirror image. Also shark mouth and bat-emblem depends on timing of the aircraft: It had the lovely shark mouth only breiefly during early 1948 and the squadron emblem was taken in use late 1948. So historically accurate is either bat or xhark...

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

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First, regarding Finland (Airfix G-6)...

 

On 1/29/2023 at 1:14 PM, opus999 said:

I really like that Finnish scheme.  I've often considered trying to find that particular kit.  It's looking good.

I like the scheme, too, but I couldn't really recommend the kit compared to the much better 1/72 G-6s out there . . . I probably have some spare Finnish G-6 markings from the Italeri kit, if you're interested...

 

22 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

Hi!

 

Excuse me to bring bad news, but Airfix has got the topside camouflage in a mirror image. Also shark mouth and bat-emblem depends on timing of the aircraft: It had the lovely shark mouth only breiefly during early 1948 and the squadron emblem was taken in use late 1948. So historically accurate is either bat or xhark...

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

No need to apologize, and thanks for letting me know. Ugh to Airfix, didn't realize about the mirrored camo. Won't be fixing that... I was aware of bats or shark; was originally leaning towards shark, but as I've been looking at her over the last few days I'm leaning towards bats now. We'll see...

 

Meanwhile, here she is with canopy dry-fit and balanced on her stand. Sorry for the crappy photo, took this picture after sunset and under poor lighting. MGs have some gunmetal on now, too. Some panel liner will help make those a bit "crisper."

 

y4mC8sPxFceBZ_-iWiomoM9vc6cHQ4QYYurbxVe9

 

Remaining roundels applied and exhaust stacks and filter painted with a mix of bronze and gun metal. Pilot has taken his seat as well and I have some warning red painted on the wing flaps tabs (nowhere on the tail or fins to paint red, which I believe is Airfix's fault, although it may be because I was too aggressive sanding!)

 

y4m_MSAOVlMlmxuynMdleFkgZ8PUsUotpdudcgx8

y4mYlkeJv5kRiaGyPRtLdBZYxz0sDx-CEpYle4iQ

 

A few more decals to go and I want to make one more touch up to the camo before I install the prop and rear wheel.

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Onto Bulgaria... 

 

On 1/29/2023 at 3:14 PM, Ventsislav Gramatski said:

Oh, this is a lovely project! Nice to see Gustavs under "minor" liveries being depicted, many of these overlooked machines saw heavy combat during the war! 

 

Green 6 is a WNF built G-2 W.Nr. 14789 with local registration (the white triangle on the tail) 25/7057 of 682 ято, 3/6 орляк (682nd Squadron, 3rd Fighter Group) in Summer 1943, flown by Petar Bochev. Bochev became an ace, he downed a B-24 on August 1st 1943 in this Gustav. He went MIA on October 5th 1944 after being shot down while strafing German ground units. The mottling should be of the more subdued, feathered type. RLM04 yellow wingtips both upper and lower side.

 

The second one is almost certainly based on a very famous photo of a G-4 taken sometime in Winter 1944-45, Bulgaria having joined the Allies and the quick ID markings turned white. It should be a standard mid-war RLM 74/75/76 heavily oversprayed by a mid green (Denes Bernad calls it "Bulgarian green" of unidentified origin in Bulgarian Fighter Colors Vol.I-II) with pale grey squiggles. I'd go for RLM 62 Green.

 

The last one is indeed a tall tail G-6 of unnamed mark. Bulgaria operated several hundred Gustavs after the war, many late mark trophies, some were apparently G-10s with the old buele instead of the more streamlined cowlings typical for the G-10. By the late 1940s, I'd guess at least the grey tone was a Soviet AMT color. For the green, I'd still go RLM 62.

thanks for these comments and insights, @Ventsislav Gramatski! I have yet to decide what I will build to represent Bulgaria, but I did order that decal set. I really like this one:

 

y4mY1w29l9tNkEd1j1bQ8-WvDU2hf33W0rGIXVX4

 

It includes a photo, too, albeit with white 26 upside down!

 

y4mjoZN_TQjTHRhh9xLGWGAuJikS3MvzmDYEV7z-

I was going to use the Italeri kit for Bulgaria, but I don't think it includes the tall tail so if I go this route it won't work. 

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And, Slovakia...

 

On 1/29/2023 at 4:14 PM, G.R.Morrison said:

Mr. Smith's photos of belly-landed WNr.161717 (which is indeed, a G-6) were taken 26.June 1944, following an engagement against an immense daylight raid by B-24s and B-17s, with P-38 and P-51 escorts.  Zastavnik Pavel Zelenak was wounded returning to Piestany, and made a high-speed forced landing near Brunovce.  Zelenak made 12 claims (all Soviet aircraft, including four Il-2s), and survived the war.

 

GRM

 

"Ich bin kein ‘Experte,' nur Historiker.”

I appreciate these comments and additional info, @G.R.Morrison. Glad to hear Zelenak survived that landing! You don't happen to know where there might be other photos of the Slovak Gustavs available online, do you?

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4 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

You don't happen to know where there might be other photos of the Slovak Gustavs available online, do you?

TBH, I haven't looked online.  The Letka 13 had a bad day on 26.June (3 KIAs), so there are photos of fuselage fragments (WNr.161720), and engines being extracted from crash sites, but also Stauder's "weiße 2" WNr.161728 (like Zelenak, belly-landed).

 

"I'm so 20th Century..."  I buy books.  There are several softcovers: Bursa & And'al, Letka 13, which concentrates on the 13.(slow.)/JG 52, but goes to the summer of 1944, and Hladik, Sumichrast & And'al Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6, which is more of a technical treatise, but includes photos and accurate color plates of Swiss, Italian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian (with crosses, cockades, and postwar stars), captured RAF & USAAF, Slovak and Finnish airframes.  It also has photo coverage of the 26.June 1944 losses.  Karol Geletko's photos survived, so there are multiple views of some of his incidents:  WNr.161735 "weiße 8" (overturned 14.June 1944 at Spisská Nová Ves), WNr.161722 "weiße 1" (overturned 3.August 1944 at Spisská Nová Ves), and WNr.161741 "weiße 5" (slightly 'bent' on landing 17.August 1944, this had been the only machine to return undamaged from the 26.June debacle).

 

All the Slovak 109G-6s came straight from Mtt-Regensburg, in the WNr.161001-161948 batch, produced Jan.-March 1944.

In late 2013 Anders Hjortsberg produced several examples of the factory-specific camouflage patterns: https://theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.com/search?q=Regensburg

 

Good luck with your project(s),

GRM

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5 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

I have yet to decide what I will build to represent Bulgaria

 

Nice project. Some pics to help you choose for Bulgarian subjects. I recently built a series of Bf-109's in Bulgarian service. Gustav's as follows. These are 1/48 Eduard and Kora Decals. My favourite is White 7. Always liked its in-flight photo with the mountains in the background.

 

BM Bf-109G6 OF Finished 1

 

BM BF-109G6 Gallery 1

 

BG Bf-109 G2 Finished 1

 

Ray

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28 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Very nice work @Ray_W, Id be quite happy to have any of these in my collection. 

 

It was great fun building a subject series like this so I can see the merit in what @ModelingEdmontonian is doing. Also, plenty of interesting subjects to choose from.

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13 hours ago, G.R.Morrison said:

TBH, I haven't looked online.  The Letka 13 had a bad day on 26.June (3 KIAs), so there are photos of fuselage fragments (WNr.161720), and engines being extracted from crash sites, but also Stauder's "weiße 2" WNr.161728 (like Zelenak, belly-landed).

 

"I'm so 20th Century..."  I buy books.  There are several softcovers: Bursa & And'al, Letka 13, which concentrates on the 13.(slow.)/JG 52, but goes to the summer of 1944, and Hladik, Sumichrast & And'al Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6, which is more of a technical treatise, but includes photos and accurate color plates of Swiss, Italian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian (with crosses, cockades, and postwar stars), captured RAF & USAAF, Slovak and Finnish airframes.  It also has photo coverage of the 26.June 1944 losses.  Karol Geletko's photos survived, so there are multiple views of some of his incidents:  WNr.161735 "weiße 8" (overturned 14.June 1944 at Spisská Nová Ves), WNr.161722 "weiße 1" (overturned 3.August 1944 at Spisská Nová Ves), and WNr.161741 "weiße 5" (slightly 'bent' on landing 17.August 1944, this had been the only machine to return undamaged from the 26.June debacle).

 

All the Slovak 109G-6s came straight from Mtt-Regensburg, in the WNr.161001-161948 batch, produced Jan.-March 1944.

In late 2013 Anders Hjortsberg produced several examples of the factory-specific camouflage patterns: https://theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.com/search?q=Regensburg

 

Good luck with your project(s),

GRM

Thanks, GRM. And nothing wrong with books... I've only recently started building up a modeling collection, and so far haven't started collecting books to go with it. Maybe one day. I appreciate your info.

 

12 hours ago, Ray_W said:

Nice project. Some pics to help you choose for Bulgarian subjects. I recently built a series of Bf-109's in Bulgarian service. Gustav's as follows.

These are all gorgeous! Yes, White 7 is penciled in for me as my Italeri subject, hard to beat this photo!

 

y4mg62kgojZ_VFZgHPQWE-zv7Fx8l0eK_jXuyThM

 

Which is number 3 on this decal sheet.

y4mi_VDcD5v_hQncNnRjqakjuauborumdk6yz6_k

But, I do find those post-war Bulgarian markings seductive, and your white 30, @Ray_W, is lovely.

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For Finland (Airfix G-6), bats it is . . .

 

y4mVbCBI2VcOy_T6YgFzZ3QxLDuR_CZgZz6C5WOC

y4mKMT_zQGY_FOKdajMWrZ3dWNV1wqPp4gfskTeM

 

I finished my camo touch ups and stuck on the prop and rear wheel. Picked the "long-legged" tail wheel from my AZ kit to use in this case.

 

y4mVUUQbc0LvcZMzwEPNrfJw12Weg9iTD5p-RnKU

 

I dry fit the canopy again to get the antenna mast installed properly (it fits into the canopy). I know the Airfix kits are awful, but I think I'm happy enough with how Finland is turning out. 

 

y4ml7U8tvs8jy3_147-DrdNLhUwY5DDnCHkcbQHK

 

Now I'm waiting for nicer weather to spray a matt clear coat. It was -27 C with wind chill this morning, but looking like we'll get above freezing this weekend and so hopefully can get her all finished up soon.

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On 2/2/2023 at 12:07 PM, Ventsislav Gramatski said:

Joke aside, I imagine such freezing temperatures can impede proper paint adhesion, especially for acrylic paints?

I only go outdoors to use rattle cans (so clear coats or some [mostly enamel, I think] paints), and I haven't even bothered trying in anything insanely cold. Usually I wait until there's an above freezing day, although I probably have tried in -10 C or so. I think my biggest challenge has been drying time, not necessarily adhesion, but certainly it is obvious to me that they all work much more ideally warmer weather. On the rare occasions when I've been able to work in something like 30 C I've been amazed at how much better the finish and drying time are!

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I work pretty much only with rattle cans for main colors.  My airbrush set up is still in the box as there is no extra room after my kid moved back in with his kid.

 

I have not had any adhesion issues but also try to paint when it is above freezing (a bit more common down here in Utah).  I do warm the paint cans in hot water for about 5 minutes before spraying and I like to use a hair dryer to help dry the paint after spraying. 

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