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The Minor Gustavs: Bf 109Gs in Smaller Air Force Service


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I already have two projects (Hawker Hurricanes around the World and Last Legs Ponies) underway, both of which are providing plenty of modelling fun, but here I am initiating another one! This project involves modelling BF 109Gs (or their derivative versions, such as Spain's HA-1112 and Czechoslovakia's S-199) in service with the "smaller" air forces (i.e., not Germany or Italy). Some of these will be minor Axis (e.g., Hungary) and others are post-war or neutral operators (e.g., Switzerland).

 

y4mhNnZW0SujXK_trnBHH8tzkvGci5f1gUs-x8RY

 

Partly why I am introducing this now even as I have other models as WIPs is that BF 109Gs are more complicated than I would have expected! I'm going to need some help in understanding all the nuances of canopies, tail heights, wheels, antennas, etc. I don't always mind being inaccurate, but I like to at least understand what would be accurate--then I can decide how to proceed. Here are the ones I think I have more-or-less nailed down (although even with these I'm not always sure which tail wheel or antenna to use) and the kits I intend to build from. in no particular order:

 

Finland

y4mJlKaTQ-t2KKBDuGkDIJM30HZ0G4SYdi51GFpu

 

Slovakia

y4mRN6RMZX7DIlFfAB3axoi3OwzK_BwzKQTubNX1

 

Spain

y4moQe3L6Yc_2zZwMzAb_6aJTfznidjUoXXte02h

 

Czechoslovakia

y4mszh9b5NBWN0lXtTHPMr-Ei8jNZxkRsrQadwsZ

 

Croatia (with decals from Lift Here)

y4mt4LanFSbNw3TGT1MaEI2EdzNnbvTWiHTJhgJf

y4mSiK_RLB3v-p3cuBLVPGfo8w-6VNRojGpSYIIj

 

Hungary (with decals from Lift Here as well)

y4mrEL0f08m6j7UmvNVCkpURFjZdbUNJO81R7f-k

 

Israel (this kit is so old [1977!] I'm not sure it's buildable, but we'll try! (with decals from Tally Ho!)

y4m4HJoinwjDYyDFZ-cLlGqdV9r4pyM9rd4LWJPi

y4mmfHr53TPcqYbgUbAly7ACJPE4XxcWYx5Y8roS

 

That leaves Switzerland, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Romania. I have kits and decals to do these, but I need some Britmodeller help on questions around these...more to come!

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18 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

but I need some Britmodeller help on questions around these...more to come!

It may or may not amuse, but I was a teenage 109 buff many years ago....   but we have more 109 buffs here.  I'll @SafetyDad as he's rather good on references....

21 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

is that BF 109Gs are more complicated than I would have expected!

well, yes and no.  They are blinkin' complicated when you get to the G-10 and the G-14/G-14 AS, and these WILL make your brain hurt but earlier they are not too complex, and most of what you are looking at are not in that category.. 

24 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

in service with the "smaller" air forces (i.e., not Germany or Italy). Some of these will be minor Axis (e.g., Hungary) and others are post-war or neutral operators (e.g., Switzerland).

I really like the MMP 'Fighter colours' books and have the volumes on Finnish, Romanian (there are some neat post war schemes I don't think are in the book though) Bulgaria, Hungary, and have books on the Avia S-199 and the White Crow Avia S-199 in Israeli service, which is maybe the reference on that....  

 

19 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

(this kit is so old [1977!] I'm not sure it's buildable,

I started it. KP were OK, and with some test fitting it seemed very buildable.  

 

there is a very useful Flickr account here, this is the albums page,  which should be self explanatory,  and has a few of  what you are asking about

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/albums

 

Note as the pages go there are one by location.

 

HTH

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Questions?

 

I'll do what I can - fire away!

You seem to be doing pretty well so far - I think that decal choice 4 from the 'Balkan Gustav' sheet would count as a Yugoslavian Bf 109 so you may already be there for that one. 

 

SD

 

 

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6 minutes ago, SafetyDad said:

 

:cwl:

 

Naughty!

 

SD

I'm sorry, I have to apologize! I meant to write "Good luck! I'll be following!" and somehow my fingers slipped over and off the keyboard to mouse button and all of a sudden I spilt my coffee because there was this big black dog and this sudden earthquake.

 

Every time I thought I knew anything "O-NINE" (got the Hitchcock book when it was new, it cost a substantial part of my pocket money and was not the only printed material on the subject), an expert surfaced and presented new findings. Be it the position of an oil filler cap on a specific variant (Just like this FedEx logo thing - it cannot be made unseen once you were told! ), the shades of RLM 81, 82, and 83, dimensions, cowl shapes, markings of a particular plane, ... you name it.

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Thanks, for the comments and offers of support, @Troy Smith @SafetyDad @Jochen Barett!

 

On 3/17/2022 at 4:35 PM, Troy Smith said:

Romanian (there are some neat post war schemes I don't think are in the book though)

Let's start here... I think I was actually inspired by one of your posts elsewhere around here, @Troy Smith and I bought these decals from RB. Not only do I think it's a pretty scheme (almost literally all blue!), looks like a good weekend build candidate!

 

y4mCD6MGD-IoYpNrABb_62W2_d44EACw4bs8ev-O

 

They come with these tear-drop resin gun bulges to make it a Ga-6.

 

y4mGVahEC8ZKtyeUs6E4qKTVxU1xcSeMEabQMzZJ

 

So, I would like to build this one out of a kit that doesn't already have the gun bulges, and in the spirit of a weekend build, I though my Hobby Boss kit might be the best candidate?

 

y4mQMKmBtK3No9b8gsAaIDQA-xDhRMBZtmNLwzdW

 

This is an odd kit, but looks like it will build into something half decent. But even this kit has three different wheel styles!  

 

y4mBqDx_v7YgiX5xpXivSYXEspY6HwgnJ3GGtv3X

 

The tail and tail wheel seem correct (although this kit also has two other options for tail wheels!). I'll need to fill in the holes for the underwing guns and not sure if a drop tank is appropriate? In terms of the bulges Hobby Boss provides, I think I will need to cut them in half and then marry up the remaining half with the resin parts. I'm sure I can figure that out. Am I missing anything? I'll probably try to build this one first out of all of them, although I have started on the Airfix kits and will update on that soon.

Edited by ModelingEdmontonian
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Nice choice of scheme - very unusual colours and those gun bulges as well! Great call.

I would be pretty confident following Radu's instructions - you probably already know that he's an expert modeller and really cares about the details on his decal sheets. The Romanian Bf 109s are a subject he is extremely well informed about.

Yep, tail and tailwheel look fine (although I haven't seen or handled the Hobbycraft kit - they look OK in your pics)

Wheels and tyres -  the 'mid sized' versions with the small 'kidney' wing bulges. I can't quite make out the detail in your pics, but they might be the wheels in the bottom left corner? 

Drop tank - normally I would have said yes, but Radu's drawings don't show any ETC rack for the tank (and the box cover picture for the kit shows a horrible tank) so probably best left off. These could be added or removed during the life of any machine, so not a do-or-die detail

No wing cannon pods as you say - these were specifically for the Bomber Destroyer mission, and were heavy with resulting poor manoeuvrability. 

No DF loop as Radu highlights - again the kit part looks clunky so perhaps that's another blessing.

 

HTH

 

SD 

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12 minutes ago, Jochen Barett said:

Maybe these (interesting!) bulges are born to be used on the Airfix kit.

I know the Airfix bulges are all wrong, but this is a case where I'm choosing "informed inaccuracy." 

 

45 minutes ago, SafetyDad said:

Nice choice of scheme - very unusual colours and those gun bulges as well! Great call.

Thanks, I thought it was pretty cool.

 

46 minutes ago, SafetyDad said:

Wheels and tyres -  the 'mid sized' versions with the small 'kidney' wing bulges. I can't quite make out the detail in your pics, but they might be the wheels in the bottom left corner? 

Ok, I'll look--very helpful!

 

47 minutes ago, SafetyDad said:

Drop tank - normally I would have said yes, but Radu's drawings don't show any ETC rack for the tank (and the box cover picture for the kit shows a horrible tank) so probably best left off. These could be added or removed during the life of any machine, so not a do-or-die detail

alright, so more holes to fill!

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For Switzerland I was going to use this Airfix kit and build it OOB with the decals for J-704. (btw, I know these are widely-panned kits due to the nasty gun bulge error, the cockpit's lack of detail, the lack of pitot tube, etc.--most of which I'm ok not correcting)

 

y4mM7i0aJoSTzNUswrvcGt_qdYYCgJV36xw4gaqk

 

Which is this scheme:

 

y4mOmfqpUhpU47zICxUJoOQQgXAD2oNu_r-7HGrQ

y4m33fUT9iCMy1E60gVXMUk6BeFVrbHOeI1YaGFx

 

But, then I found this picture and thought J-704 looked more exciting with this scheme:

 

y4m1hDW1q9qKvQU9xqiJ89q0l1pImwSWETX3WhQ6

 

Only: it has a new tail!? Does that mean it's just an altogether different J-704, or did tails get changed? I think I have kits that have the alternate tail (e.g., the AZ kit), so presumably I could make Slovakia from Airfix and Switzerland from AZ. Also, @SafetyDad I know you referenced an ETC rack--does the photo above show such a rack, or no (I'm guessing not, but not confident as to what to look for)?

 

But in further research, I found this, apparently also a Swiss G-6, perhaps J-706?

 

y4mVElA3ehEsgAFhlu4KRIOlqISyJ8WEisUYiXbC

 

Is anything more known about this? I see Kora does a kit with the scheme (and has it as J-706): https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kora-models-pk72097-messerschmitt-bf-109g-6-and-saiman-202m--1192260 

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I built a pair of the really old KP S.199’s in the early 80’s that I picked up in Brno. It’s no shake and bake and to be frank if there was no modern kit, the nose would be a cut and shunt onto a modern tooling Gustav.

 

The stickies were bad then and I guess nothings changed.

 

Trevor

Edited by Max Headroom
Spelnig
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The ETC rack was the means by which the droptank was attached

 

Bf109-DT2.jpg

 

 

DROP-TANK-2.jpg

 

The 4 small 'legs' are anti-sway braces. Compare these to the boxart and you'll appreciate why I was non-plussed by the kit's tank. There's a supporting strap and (not easily seen here) a fuel feedline plus an air intake/pressure relief fitting. Also a cap on the tank as seen. 

And you're correct - no rack on that Swiss 109 you've pictured. 

Some of the Swiss 109s were supplied in exchange for the Swiss destroying a Bf110G that had strayed into Swiss airspace and landed, complete with the latest radar. The Luftwaffe were desperate to prevent the radar secrets from reaching the Allies. The 109s supplied were of such poor quality that eventually compensation had to be paid by the Germans to the Swiss. I wonder if your chosen J-704 is one of these? In which case the second J-704 might be an entirely different airframe? A little Googling might tell you.

 

HTH

 

SD

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2 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

I know the Airfix bulges are all wrong, but this is a case where I'm choosing "informed inaccuracy." 

....

Look at the pendulum, you are very realxed, you are getting tired, 1 -- 2 -- 3 --- repeat my words "I will swap the kits and use the MG 131 bulges on the Arifix kit", again "I will swap the kits and use the MG 131 bulges on the Arifix kit", when I snap my fingers, you will feel very relaxed and you will be very proud of your wise decision to swap the base kits ... 1 -- 2 -- 3 *SNAP*

Edited by Jochen Barett
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2 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

 

But in further research, I found this, apparently also a Swiss G-6, perhaps J-706?

 

y4mVElA3ehEsgAFhlu4KRIOlqISyJ8WEisUYiXbC

 

Is anything more known about this? I see Kora does a kit with the scheme (and has it as J-706): https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kora-models-pk72097-messerschmitt-bf-109g-6-and-saiman-202m--1192260 

 

Don't take too much notice of the Kora profile.  It appears to have been inspired by a drawing in Georg Hoch's book, "Farbgebung und Kennzeichen der Schweizer Militäraviatik 1914-1950".

 

However, Georg adds-

Note: This illustration is fiction.
It is not certain if the aircraft had an Erla canopy or if it was equipped with the larger fin and rudder.  Equally, the serial number is unknown.

Mike

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8 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Only: it has a new tail!? Does that mean it's just an altogether different J-704, or did tails get changed?

https://imodeler.com/2020/12/alpine-schmitt-1-48-messerschmitt-bf109g-6-swiss-airforce/

 

"After two emergency landings due to engine failures, a lost canopy during flight, and a crash into other aircraft on the ground, J-704 only had about 57 flight hours when it was withdrawn from service on February 2nd 1947. In it´s short life it was repaired, repainted and fitted with a tall tail."

 

@Reini78 maybe able to add more.

 

also this is worth a read 

given that J-704 got an experimental paint scheme,  this maybe a good one to do as a lot of the others are basically going to be luftwaffe greys 74/75/76...  plus there seems to some latitude on what the colours used were ;) 

 

HTH

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I built the AIrfix G-6 as a Swiss machine (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235058867-swiss-bf-109g-6-172-airfix/).  The kit was a joy to put together, but the inaccuracies are a bit annoying.  I elected to sand the bumps to look better, but if you want, I have some spare bumps from an academy G-6 I am converting into a G-4.  They are included separately, so I only need to snip them off the sprue.  They can be your for the low, low, price of "free"... just let me know.

 

As for the Hobby Boss kit -- I did the 2 109-E's a couple of months ago and I was able to do both of them in about a week, but there was a lot of sanding and fettling that went on... so forewarned is forearmed!  In the end the exhausts didn't fit right and I couldn't really fix them because I'd left them off until the end to make painting easier. :facepalm:  Since yours is a G-6, it might be better since the front end is different.  I'l be curious to see since I have a HB G-10 and G-2 in the stash.

 

Again this is a terrific idea... I love seeing my favorite planes wearing different clothes.  As usual I'm late in the door so I hope you left a seat for me.... 

 

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On 3/18/2022 at 10:17 AM, ModelingEdmontonian said:

For Switzerland I was going to use this Airfix kit and build it OOB with the decals for J-704. (btw, I know these are widely-panned kits due to the nasty gun bulge error, the cockpit's lack of detail, the lack of pitot tube, etc.--most of which I'm ok not correcting)

 

y4mM7i0aJoSTzNUswrvcGt_qdYYCgJV36xw4gaqk

 

Which is this scheme:

 

y4mOmfqpUhpU47zICxUJoOQQgXAD2oNu_r-7HGrQ

y4m33fUT9iCMy1E60gVXMUk6BeFVrbHOeI1YaGFx

 

But, then I found this picture and thought J-704 looked more exciting with this scheme:

 

y4m1hDW1q9qKvQU9xqiJ89q0l1pImwSWETX3WhQ6

 

Only: it has a new tail!? Does that mean it's just an altogether different J-704, or did tails get changed? I think I have kits that have the alternate tail (e.g., the AZ kit), so presumably I could make Slovakia from Airfix and Switzerland from AZ. Also, @SafetyDad I know you referenced an ETC rack--does the photo above show such a rack, or no (I'm guessing not, but not confident as to what to look for)?

 

But in further research, I found this, apparently also a Swiss G-6, perhaps J-706?

 

y4mVElA3ehEsgAFhlu4KRIOlqISyJ8WEisUYiXbC

 

Is anything more known about this? I see Kora does a kit with the scheme (and has it as J-706): https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kora-models-pk72097-messerschmitt-bf-109g-6-and-saiman-202m--1192260 

 

i wish I'd done some research before diving in and trusting the instructions.  Both of these pictures show much more interesting schemes than the polka dots of the Airfix profile...

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I too was a teenage 109 buff. And I also built 16 of them last year for the GB.

 

Hopefully that helps.

 

The KP kit is a bit crude but can be built into a semi decent model. I did one as part of the build in Israeli markings. You might also notice that very few of the builds are in German makings.

 

The watch word for any 109 particularly a G or a K is work from a good photo. I’ve seen profiles of that shark mouthed machine with an erla hood snd a tall tail and with the older canopy and short tail as well as in different camo colours, on of the reasons I modelled a different Swiss machine.

Edited by Marklo
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On 3/18/2022 at 1:22 PM, Michou said:

Don't take too much notice of the Kora profile.  It appears to have been inspired by a drawing in Georg Hoch's book, "Farbgebung und Kennzeichen der Schweizer Militäraviatik 1914-1950".

 

However, Georg adds-

Note: This illustration is fiction.
It is not certain if the aircraft had an Erla canopy or if it was equipped with the larger fin and rudder.  Equally, the serial number is unknown.

Mike

Yeah, I was wondering... still, the photo is a tease!

 

On 3/18/2022 at 6:55 PM, Troy Smith said:

given that J-704 got an experimental paint scheme,  this maybe a good one to do as a lot of the others are basically going to be luftwaffe greys 74/75/76...  plus there seems to some latitude on what the colours used were ;) 

I agree, @Troy Smith, this is the version to do!

 

So, at the moment then I'll plan to swap --I'll use Airfix to build Slovakia and AZ to build Switzerland. I will more or less use AZ's Swiss kit box top as my guide (to be clear I don't own this kit):

 

y4mND9mQdgCVsxR7UZJx4jPlNObVFW5kGlPvC1EX

Thanks everyone for all the support and advice! I'll respond to more later, but for now I think Switzerland is sort of nailed down! Obviously there is lots of expertise here and I always appreciate it being shared. I'm still relatively new at modelling as these are my first Bf109-Gs, so I have lots to learn!

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On 3/19/2022 at 12:37 PM, opus999 said:

I built the AIrfix G-6 as a Swiss machine (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235058867-swiss-bf-109g-6-172-airfix/).  The kit was a joy to put together, but the inaccuracies are a bit annoying.  I elected to sand the bumps to look better, but if you want, I have some spare bumps from an academy G-6 I am converting into a G-4.  They are included separately, so I only need to snip them off the sprue.  They can be your for the low, low, price of "free"... just let me know.

Very generous offer, @opus999; for now I'm serious about not correcting these Airfix kits, but that doesn't mean I won't request them down the road if I need more bulges for any other reason!

 

On 3/19/2022 at 12:37 PM, opus999 said:

As for the Hobby Boss kit -- I did the 2 109-E's a couple of months ago and I was able to do both of them in about a week, but there was a lot of sanding and fettling that went on... so forewarned is forearmed!  In the end the exhausts didn't fit right and I couldn't really fix them because I'd left them off until the end to make painting easier. :facepalm:  Since yours is a G-6, it might be better since the front end is different.  I'l be curious to see since I have a HB G-10 and G-2 in the stash.

Ok, good to know, maybe not a weekend kit then!

 

On 3/19/2022 at 12:37 PM, opus999 said:

Again this is a terrific idea... I love seeing my favorite planes wearing different clothes.  As usual I'm late in the door so I hope you left a seat for me.... 

 

Thanks, @opus999, all are welcome, and especially that offer advice or spare parts!

 

On 3/19/2022 at 12:43 PM, opus999 said:

i wish I'd done some research before diving in and trusting the instructions.  Both of these pictures show much more interesting schemes than the polka dots of the Airfix profile...

I'm glad I waited, because I agree! Like I mentioned, the Airfix kits are underway, but I didn't start any camo painting until I got some good ol' Britmodeller advice!

 

On 3/18/2022 at 11:27 AM, Max Headroom said:

I built a pair of the really old KP S.199’s in the early 80’s that I picked up in Brno. It’s no shake and bake and to be frank if there was no modern kit, the nose would be a cut and shunt onto a modern tooling Gustav.

 

The stickies were bad then and I guess nothings changed.

On 3/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Marklo said:

The KP kit is a bit crude but can be built into a semi decent model. I did one as part of the build in Israeli markings.

Yup, the decals for the old KP kit are going straight to the bin, but the Tally Ho! sheet looks nice. We'll see what I manage to make of it...

Edited by ModelingEdmontonian
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17 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Yup, the decals for the old KP kit are going straight to the bin, but the Tally Ho! sheet looks nice. We'll see what I manage to make of it. 

I can't but agree, notwithstanding the fact that I had the Czech boxing the decals were all but unusable even after a few weeks in the sun and were substituted from the decal box. 

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Now, onto Yugoslavia.

On 3/18/2022 at 2:18 AM, SafetyDad said:

I think that decal choice 4 from the 'Balkan Gustav' sheet would count as a Yugoslavian Bf 109 so you may already be there for that one. 

Yes, this sheet does have a nice Yugoslav G-6...

y4m6LSiQsvEE02axvh2uX1oSS9fVb5DzpVIQQV5c

 

But I'm interested in this version because I find it a lot more interesting.

y4mQapBapbqwVCDAlj_4DzMwr0uCpOxdzwYZ0SW0

y4msas-tJCYTi6edYpL0L4eKA9R9uwFZGJmajicQ

 

On 3/17/2022 at 4:35 PM, Troy Smith said:

They are blinkin' complicated when you get to the G-10

Which gets me to the G-10! I know enough to recognize that it's an Erla canopy, but other than that I'm not sure what I need to be looking for to know which kit to use. I was looking at the Fine Molds kit, because I'm interesting in building one of those. But Revell makes one too (much more affordable!) and AZ as well has I think a couple, or maybe more, G-10s. To me the profiles looks like a high-tail, Erla canopied G-6 without MG bulges-- so that's how unsophisticated my Bf109 knowledge is!

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On 3/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Marklo said:

I too was a teenage 109 buff. And I also built 16 of them last year for the GB.

Unfortunately, @Marklo, your photos don't load for me! I've tried on my phone and laptop. Which is too bad because sounds like your project was somewhat similar to what I'm attempting!

 

18 hours ago, John_W said:

The Airfix G builds nicely but is a little crude. Deep panel lines and a single bulge.

The lack of cockpit detail isn't much of an issue as you can't see much.

20171026_145321

 

Thanks for sharing! Yes, I'm not worried about the cockpit, either, and as annoying as the bulges and panel lines are I don't intend to do any correction there. I'll be happy if my Finland version turns out like yours 😀 Although, I read that the bat and the shark mouth did not appear on MT-422 simultaneously, did you do any research in that regard, @John_W?

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