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1/48 - General Dynamics/Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon/Viper family by Kinetic - F-16A/AM & F-16C released - F-16D USAF blk 30/40/50 and RSAF Block 52 in early 2023


Homebee

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4 hours ago, boom175 said:

Where are the magnets for the weapons?? It was previewed with the "MAGFIRE" attachment feature? Also I thought there would be P/E strengthening plates?

Just curious. 

Mmm, I see a "Compatible" near MagFire on the boxart. Does It mean that in the future there will be a MagFire Weapons Set to be used with this MagFire ready kit? Still waiting my boxes from UK and now very curious about the kit. I can stand without magnets anyway.

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20 hours ago, Julien said:

Yes they are different. Though not all ADF aircraft actually got the antennas fitted. Is there a USAF ADF on the decal sheet?

Correct, however if you do build a fully modified ADF you need 2 sets. If you buy 2 kits the problem will be solved as you can build one kit as MLU or vanilla F-16A, and the other as an F-16A ADF 😜

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36 minutes ago, Boman said:

Correct, however if you do build a fully modified ADF you need 2 sets. If you buy 2 kits the problem will be solved as you can build one kit as MLU or vanilla F-16A, and the other as an F-16A ADF 😜

I built this 16 years ago now and fancy doing another ADF again with this kit

 

dixonadfd.jpg

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2 hours ago, oldcrow said:

Mmm, I see a "Compatible" near MagFire on the boxart. Does It mean that in the future there will be a MagFire Weapons Set to be used with this MagFire ready kit? Still waiting my boxes from UK and now very curious about the kit. I can stand without magnets anyway.

There are no magnets in the box, despite the "Magfire compatible" written on the box top. First disappointment with the kit, since Kinetic said the magnets would be included. The second disappointment is the poor quality of the instructions manual,still with the same photocopy look of the first Kinetic kits. I haven't looked closely to the sprues of the kit I bought at Telford, but a friend is already building his,and says that the bottom outer area of the wings is devoid of any engraved detail, apart from the outer pylon holes. But he also says that so far the fit is as advertised.

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I've found an error in the instructions for the AM. In section 26 the instructions advise that Belgian and Dutch F-16s use the same tail extension parts which is incorrect. They should advise that the Norwegian and Dutch options use the same parts.

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4 hours ago, Stephen said:

I've found an error in the instructions for the AM. In section 26 the instructions advise that Belgian and Dutch F-16s use the same tail extension parts which is incorrect. They should advise that the Norwegian and Dutch options use the same parts.

You are absolutely right.

 

Belgian Air Force F-16 MLU are quite unique having the Dassault Systems ‘’Carapace’’ electronic suite

including two very visible parts :

 

A profiled fairing just under the air intake lip ;

An electronic box replacing the drag chute on the extended fin base ;

 

Are these two pieces available with this new Kinetic Gold kit ?

😎

SharkOwl       

Edited by SharkOwl
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15 minutes ago, SharkOwl said:

You are absolutely right.

 

Belgian Air Force F-16 MLU are quite unique having the Dassault Systems ‘’Carapace’’ electronic suite

including two very visible parts :

 

A profiled fairing just under the air intake lip ;

An electronic box replacing the drag chute on the extended fin base ;

 

Are these two pieces available with this new Kinetic Gold kit ?

😎

SharkOwl       

Yes, they are. 

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The lack of scab plates is disappointing. Most of the planes in the decals should have them if they are supposed to be 21st century planes.

 

It looks like the one ADF strip they included doesn't have the right shape for the antennas.  I wondering if Kinetic didn't do their research and assumed ADF and MLUs had the same antennas forward of the cockpit and just included a part for the antennas under the intake on ADFs.  

 

You can build a Portuguese F-16 out of the box if they provided the ID light in the side of the nose. Portugal bought a version that looks like an ADF, but technically aren't ADFs.  The ADF program was a conversion program of earlier block F-16A/B to a air defense optimized version for the US Air National Guard. ALL ADFs were conversions of earlier airframes. After ANG service some spent a few years in Italy and others went to Pakistan, Jordan and Thailand. A few ADFs were converted to target drones including at least one of the Italian planes.

 

Portugal ordered new build Block 15OCU F-16A/B Block under Peace Atlantis I that included the ID light in the port side of the nose, HF Radio and vertical tail of the ADF, but did not include the bird slicer IFF antennas. So they got new build planes that look like ADFs without bird slicers. 

 

The plane in the kit decals in its original configuration in 2004. Landing lights on landing gear no bird slicers.

aea.jpg?m=1371926380

 

Where things get interesting is these were put through the MLU program around 2010 and got the AIFF antennas like Kinetic molded on the kit fuselage. From the photos I've looked at these planes did not get the structural reinforcement plates applied to most F-16A/B as they went through MLU.  I'm guessing since these were built in the '90s they incorporated structural upgrades on the assembly line similar to Block 50/52 (and Taiwan's Block 20), so the scab plates are just not necessary. 

 

This is the airframe for the kit decals post MLU (2012) in the fresh 3-color camouflage. No evidence of structural reinforcements. Landing lights on nose gear door and AIFF antennas.

15115_002_001.jpg?m=1371936620

 

In the late '90s Portugal bought a batch of second hand USAF Block 15OCU planes. They received the ID light, but none of the other ADF features. When it became obvious during NATO exercises how dated these planes had become, they were the first planes Portugal put through the MLU program.  They have since sold some of these planes to Romania and bought 3 replacements in 2019.  All of these planes have scab plates post-MLU.

 

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There is a discrepancy with regards to the Belgian colour scheme provided:

 

The stencils provided for the Belgian option are the 'new' grey ones. Look at the ejection seat triangles: grey (like current US F-16s) as opposed to earlier salmon pink triangles. If using those newer stencils, the camo is 2-tone, as opposed to the earlier 3-tone.  The paint guide is wrong. That being said, a earlier Belgian version can be done by using the Dutch stencils that are provided...

 

 

Also the box art is off in that regard: on the newer 2-tone camo, the dark grey should come further forward, and the ejection triangle should be on the dark area. The box art shows a dark grey triangle on lighter grey background. That's wrong. For that particular paint scheme, the triangle should be salmon colour.

 

So in summary everything is in the box to to either early or late camo, just beware of the instructions (and box art)

 

G

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2 hours ago, guillaume320 said:

There is a discrepancy with regards to the Belgian colour scheme provided:

 

The stencils provided for the Belgian option are the 'new' grey ones. Look at the ejection seat triangles: grey (like current US F-16s) as opposed to earlier salmon pink triangles. If using those newer stencils, the camo is 2-tone, as opposed to the earlier 3-tone.  The paint guide is wrong. That being said, a earlier Belgian version can be done by using the Dutch stencils that are provided...

 

 

Also the box art is off in that regard: on the newer 2-tone camo, the dark grey should come further forward, and the ejection triangle should be on the dark area. The box art shows a dark grey triangle on lighter grey background. That's wrong. For that particular paint scheme, the triangle should be salmon colour.

 

So in summary everything is in the box to to either early or late camo, just beware of the instructions (and box art)

 

G

Lets also hope that Sylvain Hautier (Syh@rt) will reprint his superb 48-905 decal sheet with full detailed stencils for

Belgian Air Force F-16 MLU located at Florennes Air Base.

 

I ask Sylvain about it a few minutes ago.

To be followed.

😎

SharkOwl

 

48-905 Reference here :

http://syhartdecal.fr/references.php?lang=FR&ref=Syhart 905&page=description

 

spacer.png

Edited by SharkOwl
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27 minutes ago, SharkOwl said:

Lets also hope that Sylvain Hautier (Syh@rt) will reprint his superb 48-905 decal sheet with full detailed stencils for

Belgian Air Force F-16 MLU located at Florennes Air Base.

 

I ask Sylvain about it a few minutes ago.

To be followed.

😎

SharkOwl

 

48-905 Reference here :

http://syhartdecal.fr/references.php?lang=FR&ref=Syhart 905&page=description

 

spacer.png

 

That would be great, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. :thumbsup:

Syhart decals are great.

/Bosse

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9 minutes ago, SprueMan said:

The canopy is still clear, and not smoked :(

I wouldn't really see that as an issue, you can tint the canopy yourself easily enough to whatever extent you like using something like Tamiya's 'Smoke' or even Kleer with something like food colouring added to it.

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We should also keep in mind that Kinetic has a track record of making incremental improvements to their kits over time.  Their legacy Hornet kits are a prime example, with retooled tails and separate rudders, not present at first... An approach that should be commended in my opinion

 

So who knows what we will see over time with those new F-16 kits 😃

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On 11/15/2022 at 2:42 PM, Stephen said:

I've found an error in the instructions about which tail extension to use for which nationality . In Section 26 the instructions specify the same extension for both the Belgian and Dutch aircraft when it should be the same one for the Dutch and Norwegian aircraft. 

I found a review that paged through the instructions and they also screwed up which parts to use for the Portuguese plane. They never mention the ADF tail base. The standard A tail base can be right for Portugal, but not for the serial number in the decals.

 

The more I think about the more this kit irritates me for the sloppy execution, I'm not buying either of these boxings, maybe if they fix things in a future release.. It's not any one thing, but the collection of glitches and missing details turn me off.  I would like to be able to buy a new release kit and build it without needing to go to aftermarket to add details that should be in the box.

  1. Problems noted on decals in the MLU kit requiring aftermarket for at least the Norse and Danish planes.
  2. No seatbelt or pilot (requires aftermarket seat or 3D decals), There is no excuse for this.
  3. No structural reinforcement plates that should be on every plane in BOTH boxings (except for the Portuguese plane) Aftermarket required that doesn't exist, unless an existing set fits this kit.  It looks like there are landing lights for the main gear legs (part G18) so early pre-MLU planes could be built but those probably need aftermarket decals.  Same with the Block25/42 kit. You can build planes close to when they were new, but not late career.
  4. Numerous errors in the instructions. Most of the errors seem to be about which parts apply to which variants.  This is the worst way to Kinetic could screw up instructions because these are subtle errors. If you swap part numbers for "left" and "right" a lot of times the builder will catch this because the parts don't fit right.  Errors like this requires the user to be a SME to know which parts are the right parts for the variant they are building.  
  5. Lack of EPAF unique pylons and pods. It would have been nice to include some of the gear that is unique to the air forces in the decals.
  6. ADF bird slicer shape errors and missing antenna for under the intake maybe this would be fixed with a new sprue for a dedicated ADF release along with Sparrow pylons and AIM-7s.
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18 hours ago, Steve McArthur said:

 

 

  1. No structural reinforcement plates that should be on every plane in BOTH boxings (except for the Portuguese plane) 

The Portuguese "15115" is also a MLU version.

 

SO+-+F-16MLU+-+1.jpg

10013624_10153948112920007_701425838_n.j

 

Edited by luis pacheco
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20 minutes ago, luis pacheco said:

The Portuguese "15115" is also a MLU version.

Yes it is a MLU, but pay attention to the tail.  You have included a photo of 15133 which is from Peace Atlantis II (15121-15140) and has a very different history.  These were used USAF Block 15OCU planes that were built in the early '80s like most of the EPAF F-16s and had the standard "A" tail like your photo. They were bought in the late '90s after Portugal's original purchase of F-16s. These got the structural reinforcements during MLU like I noted in my previous post in this thread.  These planes went through MLU a few years before the Peace Atlantis I planes and many of them have since been sold off to Romania. 

 

The Peace Atlantis I planes (15101-15120) with the "ADF" tail, were newly built specifically for Portugal in the '90s and did not get the reinforcements during MLU. At least I have not been able to find a photo post MLU that show any reinforcements.

 

Based on date photos I've looked at Pease Atlantis II (former USAF planes) went through MLU around 2003-2004 and Peace Atlantis I happened around 2010-2011.

 

To add another complaint to my list - Portugal only has AN/ALQ-131 ECM pods originally bought for their A-7Ps, not included in the kits, and their F-16s were AIM-7 compatible.

 

Peace Atlantis I - MLU - no reinforcements - Can be built out of the box.

spacer.png

 

Peace Atlantis II - MLU - with reinforcements - Cannot be built as shown out of the box due to the missing structural reinforcements and AN/ALQ-131 pod.

spacer.png

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All of the missing elements can be supplemented by aftermarket solutions, so honestly no crisis. It is not a requirement that any kit shall provide absolutely everything that is needed to build any version at any time thorugh history. Tamiya's F-16C/N boxing has as an example also no strengtheners included, even if the block 40/42 were the ones who needed this firstly. 

 

As for the RNoAF decal version - tail 680 - this flew post-MLU update without the strengthener plates in the early 2000's but got them later. The point is it all comes down to the timeframe of the kit you'll be depicting. 

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On 11/18/2022 at 3:53 AM, Vingtor said:

 

The same goes for the Norwegian part.

 

Nils

Are you planning the reprint of your former and top quality ''Vingtor'' Royal Norwegian Air Force F-16 MLU 1/48 scale

decal sheets ?

😎

SharkOwl

Edited by SharkOwl
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36 minutes ago, Boman said:

All of the missing elements can be supplemented by aftermarket solutions, so honestly no crisis. It is not a requirement that any kit shall provide absolutely everything that is needed to build any version at any time thorugh history. Tamiya's F-16C/N boxing has as an example also no strengtheners included, even if the block 40/42 were the ones who needed this firstly. 

 

As for the RNoAF decal version - tail 680 - this flew post-MLU update without the strengthener plates in the early 2000's but got them later. The point is it all comes down to the timeframe of the kit you'll be depicting. 

I never said it was a crisis, just said it was enough of a problem to me, that I am not buying either of these boxings precisely for the reason that I shouldn't need aftermarket to build the kit as depicted by the kit markings. Probably 95% of the buyers won't know or care that details are missing. Personally, if Kinetic want's my money I don't think it is too much to ask that they include a combination of parts and decals to make an accurate model out of the box.  If you want to buy this kit and aftermarket to fix deficiencies, go for it. 

 

Tamiya did put out a "Detail Up" PE set for their F-16s that included seat belts and stiffener plates for those that wanted them. I've seen no hint of that from Kinetic and if they had announced a similar approach I wouldn't be complaining about them missing from the box.

 

Each marking in the instructions lists a year and location and you should be able to build the kit for that timeframe with what's in the box. The F-16C kit planes should have stiffener plates for at least 2 of the 3 markings in that kit based on photos I found online. I haven't looked for photos of the third yet. They could have put in weapons and decals for a Desert Storm era F-16C and the kit would have been fine. 

 

I'm not an expert on the modification history of every F-16 ever built, so I possibly made a bad assumption on the timeframe MLU planes received the structural mods, but feel pretty confident the later timeframes depicted in the kit should have stiffener plates. Doing a quick search, J-515 was did not have them as late as 2007, so the lack of stiffeners is okay for the kit decals. I can't find many photos at all of RDAF 80-3603, but the Belgian plane had stiffener plates as early as 2006 and the kit markings are for 2016. RNoAF 680 had them in 2011, but no idea how early they were added and it's not my job to figure it out. It was Kinetic's job to get it right, and based on the shoddy approach to the rest of the details, I wouldn't trust them to have done their homework.

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  • Homebee changed the title to 1/48 - General Dynamics/Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon/Viper family by Kinetic - F-16A/AM & F-16C released - F-16D USAF blk 30/40/50 and RSAF Block 52 in early 2023

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