Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

I've been fiddling with my Protar model for 20+ years now, and I've collected information simultaneously. There is very little out there, and unless a very detailed publication on the LC2 comes out, I don't think you'll be able to find the information you need to do 3D CAD work of the suspension.

 

BTW, initially the LC2 had a rather special rear suspension set-up: the lower wishbone was (roughly) at drive shaft height. This allowed totally unobstructed venturi tunnels. But it was replaced by a more standard set-up later, with wishbones through the tunnels.

 

The best 'source' of information I found is going to classic Group-C races, and hope that an LC-2 turns up. I was lucky at the 2012 Spa Classic. But image having to figure out, let alone measure the suspension parts in a setting like this..

 

dsc_16187a.jpg

 

dsc_16432a.jpg

 

But you do learn a lot if you can styduy an actual car. Like that the LC2 has internal ducting for part of the air that comes in through the central nose opening. There's a dividing duct ahead of the instrument panel, and then it goes through the side pods, through radiators and then into the engine bay. All very complicated, and of doubtful effect. I had never ever read about this arrangement.

 

Rob

 

Useful information Rob, as always. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's are two pictures showing the rather massive ducts running from the nose inlet to the sides. It runs partially under the windscreen.

 

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/img/Lancia-LC2-401.html

 

It's a bit of a weird sight when they are removed, but you can now see something of the chassis.

 

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/img/Lancia-LC2-132304.html

 

The photo shows good detail of the front suspension arms by the way 🙂

 

Rob

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope you don’t mind the intrusion but I do have a soft spot for the LC.2, having seen them race towards the end of their competition life. Most of this part is forgotten, compared to the ‘Martini’ years. Apologies for some dodgy camera work – photos are mine and depend a lot on the weather of the day: dull and the photos were not great – sunny and things looked more optimistic!

 

By the time of the 1986 Brands Hatch 1000, the only LC.2 racing in the world championship was LC2/85 #0003, the ‘Martini’ car raced by Baldi and Wollek in ‘85. In 1986 the car was entered by the Sponsor Geest [sic] Team, though depending on which magazine you read, it could also be “Sponsor Gest” or “Sponsor Guest”! The car was driven at Brands by Bruno Giacomelli and Andrea de Cesaris and qualified a respectable 5th but did not finish. Chassis #0003 made a few appearances in the championship that year, but most of its entries were cancelled as I recall. This is Brands Hatch - you can just make out the correct spelling "Geest" on the rear wing:

 

86 Brands

 

For 1987 the car was raced as “Mussato Action Car” and run by Gianni Mussato; the following year it moved under the unlikely-sounding Dollop Racing banner and was now called an “LC2/88”, though I doubt it meant much. It did get a Le Mans entry in 1988 though, qualifying 31st but not managing to get to the finish. #0003 seems to have ended its competition life at the November 1988 GTE World Challenge in Florida.

 

In 1989, Gianni Mussato was back with his Action Car, but this time it was referred to as an “LC2/89” with chassis #0008. Le Mans saw it fail to qualify and though it qualified at both Brands and Donington, it failed to finish either time.

 

Brands:

 

89 Brands (2)

 

89 Brands (1)

 

89 Brands (3)

 

Donington:

 

89 Donington

 

For 1990, chassis #0008 was now referred to as an “LC2 SP90” and only took part in one race: the Le Mans 24 Hours. It spent a lot of time in the garage, and qualified a lowly 37th; worse was to come in the race. I remember around midnight the track all of a sudden getting quiet as cars ran behind the safety car, and it was obvious that something had happened. It soon became apparent that the Mussato Lancia had gone missing with Fabio Magnani aboard, and it took some time to locate the car. It was finally located on its roof, some way off the track on the run into Indianapolis; Magnani was uninjured but the car caught fire and chassis #0008 was burned to a crisp. There seemed to be confusion over what had happened but I recall it being a collision with the Minolta Toyota: certainly this car was seen to be heavily patched up (but still running) when the sun came up. These photos were taken in the old pits, where access was a lot better than it is now!

 

90 LM (2)

 

90 LM (1)

 

90 LM (3)

 

But that was not even the end for the Lancia LC2: in 1991, with the 3.5-litre formula almost upon us, the ‘unlimited’ Group C cars had one last hurrah. And the Italian Veneto Equipe turned up at the first round with an LC2 “SP91” with chassis #0009, and ran most of the championship rounds. I suspect that #0009 was a previously unraced spare chassis. I saw it at Le Mans, where – joy of joys – it finished! Sadly it wasn’t classified, having spent most of the race in its garage and was wheeled out for a few laps at the end of the race. I managed to cheer the team home at the end - my wife wondered why I was making so much fuss over a car which had come dead last...

 

91 LM

 

That was just about it: Veneto Equipe ran a couple more championship rounds and thereby the LC2 was finally retired. They were generally fast but fragile, but sounded awesome, and as with so many glorious failures, they are greatly missed!

 

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sabrejet, a big thanks for your 'intrusion', and sharing your photos! Although I've studied the LC2 extensively, I did not have a good understanding of all the Italian 'B' teams. Now I at least understand the basics.

 

As you probably know, Tamiya made decals for the Geest car. Years ago I drew a set for the Veneto car, from the Nurburgring 1991 race. It seems it had part of these markings at Le Mans too.

 

lc2-10.jpg

 

I must admit: you made it so much more difficult to sacrifice a TamTech body to make a mould of that darned cockit section, for the Protar / Italeri kit. There are so many interesting cars to build with that body!! I guess I need to find a second copy.

 

Rob

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad it was of interest: I just wish I'd taken more photos! That last pic taken at Le Mans feels like it was maybe 10 years ago when actually - gulp - it is 31 years next month...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grand Prix Models made a 1/43 version. This is the first one built of the Totip car...

 

IMG_3710

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 07/05/2022 at 00:25, Sabrejet said:

I hope you don’t mind the intrusion but I do have a soft spot for the LC.2, having seen them race towards the end of their competition life. Most of this part is forgotten, compared to the ‘Martini’ years. Apologies for some dodgy camera work – photos are mine and depend a lot on the weather of the day: dull and the photos were not great – sunny and things looked more optimistic!

 

 

86 Brands

 

 

 

 

I think your photos are pretty good actually and a very useful resource. Personally, I thank you for posting them.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vesa, Andrea R and Rob. I'm still very interested in any of the model canopy improvements you produce and also anything for the front wheel arch vents. I am looking forward to your continued progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
14 hours ago, von Race said:

I just ran across this while surfing, (the internet that is 😁)  I hope it's not duplicate information.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96346904@N05/

 

Oh! Many thanks, I had never seen those before! I knew about the car in this collection, but only found a few pictures. It's an LC2 in the 1984 configuration, still with the narrow nose like the Protar / Italeri 1983 kit.

 

A tip: I found the 'main page' for this photo set, showing all 41 photos. And there's a download button for the whole set, as a zip, at the top :

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96346904@N05/albums/72157712295645488

 

Thanks again!

 

Rob

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just noted in the photo set, that vonRace posted, that the LC2 had louvres in the top of its venturi tunnels too. So I will need to do them too in 3D CAD and have them printed. Luckily I made the CAD design easy to modify, so I can probably reuse the design for the front wheel bodywork, as shown below.


Rob

 

lc2-59.jpg

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/05/2022 at 16:41, Rob de Bie said:

I just noted in the photo set, that vonRace posted, that the LC2 had louvres in the top of its venturi tunnels too. So I will need to do them too in 3D CAD and have them printed. Luckily I made the CAD design easy to modify, so I can probably reuse the design for the front wheel bodywork, as shown below.


Rob

 

lc2-59.jpg

 

brilliant Rob, can't wait for you to produce these. Very keen indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

An idea just popped in my mind: a good friend recently bought a semi-professional 3D scanner, and he's looking for projects. I could ask him to scan the TamTach LC2 cockpit area. and then 3D print just the cockpit area. That way I don't have to sacrifice the body, that could be used to build a later version. I'll probably have to paint the model, but I can select a paint type that's easy to remove. Sounds like a plan to me!


Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought a bit more about it, and there are possibly more interesting things to do. Assuming the vacformed part has a constant thickness, you could deduct that thickness from the 3D model, and create an internal structure, window frame, door post, roll cage, etc. But I don't know yet how that is to be done, I never worked with a pure STL model before. Well, I did try MeshMixer, but that felt like alien technology, coming from 3D CAD 🙂 Also, I could have the Protar/Italeri body scanned, so I can (hopefully) see whether the cockpit transplant is going to fit.

 

Rob

 

Edited by Rob de Bie
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

I thought a bit more about it, and there are possibly more interesting things to do. Assuming the vacformed part has a constant thickness, you could deduct that thickess from the 3D model, and create an internal structure, window frame, door post, roll cage, etc. But I don't know yet how that is to be done, I never worked with a pure STL model before. Well, I did try MeshMixer, but that felt like alien technology, coming from 3D CAD 🙂 Also, I could have the Protar/Italeri body scanned, so I can (hopefully) see whether the cockpit transplant is going to fit.

 

Rob

 

I'm with you all the way Rob. Anything I can do to help?

 

Sorry, I still haven't sent you my Totip decal artwork. I did come across a problem, I hadn't planned it with the stripes, I was going to mask and paint for those.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...