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Ju88 A-1 towel rail aerial?


BikingLampy
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I've just started on the Revell 1/72 Junkers Ju88 A-1 "Battle of Britain" boxing.

 

I'm planning on building the box-top option of 9K+AL Edelweiss

There's the parts included for the under fueslage towel-rail radar typically seen on German bombers of this era and a bunch of blanked off holes in the correctish area.

 

1) fitting them is not mentioned in the instructions - indeed in the plan of the sprues they're greyed out as "not needed". However the box-top art shows it in situ (although the photos of the finished model don't). I've found pictorial references of the plane in question WITH the aerial showing

ju-88a-1-bob_-jpg.651999

2) Location. The blanked holes in the fuselage, 2 sets of which are spaced correctly for the aerial parts are in completely different locations to those shown above. The forward part is positioned about 1/2 a panel too far forward, the rear offset nearly a panel too far back, leaving an enormous gap between the 2, rather than almost touching.

 

So can anybody tell me what Revell are playing at? I'm feeling like the ariel should be there, but presumably there's a reason Revell don't include it in the build?

 

ACTUALLY - here's another one for the Ju88 experts - I've just realised the profile up there ^^^ says RLM 70 only on the upper surfaces. However the painting instructions are usual RLM70/71 splinter. Box art appears to be single colour, as do the photos of the complete model. I couldn't tell you anything from about the colours from the above B&W photo. So again - what's "correct"...?

 

Thanks!

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It is often very difficult to distinguish between 70 and 71 when freshly painted or in poor light or if not clearly photographed or poorly reproduced.  For a long time it was actually believed that a single top surface colour was quite common.  We now know, having seen many more good photos, that it wasn't common at all.  Certainly there are clear photos of KG51 Ju.88s with the two colour system.  To argue that it never existed could be dangerous, but I think that rather more evidence is needed than this picture.  On the other hand, there were people at Revell Germany well-enough informed to know all this.

 

As for the aerial, I don't know when this was introduced. Possibly the A-1s were build without it and it was added when they were in service.  However, the photo does not show the wingtips nor the tip of the rudder - could it actually be a later photo of an A-5?

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I'm pretty sure a BoB period Ju88A-1 would more likely have had the splinter camouflage pattern than not and all the pics and plans I have of A-1's and A-4's show the under surface aerial in place, including a pic of the 4th production A-1.

 

Regards

Colin.

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+1 to Graham's reply - 70 and 71 are very close tonally in B&W images and it's common for uppersurfaces to appear to be in a single colour when they are in fact two-tone. Without definitive photographic evidence of 70 uppersurfaces I would be inclined to start from a position of 70/71/65 and then seek to disprove that, rather than take a starting position of a single-colour green (if that makes sense).  

 

I'll have a look through my references for you

 

SD

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Just one quick note for clarity: 70 and 71 are not always inseparable in b&w photos.  I know that you knew that, but there are people here who are new to the whole forest of trees and oceans of electrons that have been devoted to Luftwaffe camouflage.  Apart from high quality photos and reproductions, 71 seems to fade more rapidly.  There are examples of aircraft with a single green uppersurface, but that seem to be restricted to export Bf.109Es and Hs.123s.   Quite why the latter is baffling.  The idea of Jumo-engined Bf.109s in a single gteen was demolished in (I think) 1972, and despite its re-appearance more recently ahs not been disproved.

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Well here's a little more, but not much

 

IMG_0984

 

These are the instructions for AirDoc sheet 48011 and there's your 9K+AL. Some extra details here about the gun emplacements would seem to point to AirDoc having photographic evidence to support this profile. The evidence may be in here (cited at the foot of the instructions) but I don't have a copy of this. The profile artist (RJC) unfortunately has, on occasion, been demonstrated to be inaccurate in the past.

 

IMG_0985

 

So, on balance this far, I might suggest that there may be a case for a single uppersurface green but that photographic evidence would be the clincher.  Please note however that the two profiles disagree on which green  - one opts for 70, the other for 71. 

Having two profiles agree with each other is not that definitive, and this case they don't agree completely.

 

HTH

 

SD

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Hello guys,

 

here is a copy of the original factory manual dated February 1940.

 

spacer.png

 

As yo can see, both RLM 70 and RLM 71 are ordered for the upper surfaces. The manual also gives the "old" colours (RLM 61, RLM 62 and RLM 63) but there is no drawing showing them.

 

Hopefully this helps.

 

Cheers,

Antti

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I believe that there is however a photo showing them, presumably on a development aircraft or perhaps a piece of imaginative advertising.  Not for A-1s, either way.  it would be interesting to find that one again, because of the seemingly unrecorded intermediate scheme of 61/62/63 using less segments than before, but more than the 70/71 scheme.  This was seen on He.111s and Ju.52s, perhaps on others.

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In most of the photos I have or have ever seen of Luftwaffe bombers during the BoB the demarcation between the two greens is almost impossible to detect so one could also fall into the trap of assuming (incorrectly) that all Do17's and He111's were also a single colour.

 

In the book 'To Defeat The Few' on page 210 there is a colourised pic of '9K+EL' during the period and whilst the colour process has probably not rendered the indivual colours correctly it would presumably have picked up on colour/tonal differences and in this pic there is a distinct difference in colours/tones on the wings suggesting a two colour camouflage.

 

Regards

Colin.

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Sorry, just to add that there are some very good pics of a Ju88A-1 from Stab II/KG54, B3+DC, which crash landed at Portland Bill on the 11th August which clearly show the aircraft having a two colour green camouflage.

 

Two of the books with the photos are 'The Narrow Margin' and 'The Battle of Britain Then & Now' although they may also feature in others as well.

 

That's not to say that 9K+AL definitely wasn't all over green but on the balance of probabilities given the information at hand, and in the absence of a clear photo, it's most likely that it was indeed 70/71.

 

Regards

Colin.

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On 3/14/2022 at 8:22 PM, BikingLampy said:

2) Location. The blanked holes in the fuselage, 2 sets of which are spaced correctly for the aerial parts are in completely different locations to those shown above.

RoG released the Ju 88C-6Z/N as well, these had different antennae (transparent parts) in a slightly different location,

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

 

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All the plans and pics I have show the aerials in exactly the place shown on the above profile so I'm pretty sure this is accurate.

 

One thing that strikes me as strange is why the Luftwaffe used the 70/71 splinter pattern when due to fading and general wear and tear it became very difficult to discern them as separate colours from any distance other than really close up.

 

Regards

Colin.

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Wrong way round Colin: they were difficult to distinguish in b&w photos when new, although this doesn't mean that they would have been so indistinct for real.  The 71 was distinctly greener. It was after weathering and use that the 71 faded and became much clearer on photos.  Given how much of Germany as eastern Europe was still heavily wooded/forested, two darkish green colours would be pretty effective.

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