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HMS Rodney Build Log - 1/200


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39 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Propeller shafts were painted in a single coat of anti-fouling paint on British warships so you need not worry about the material of the original :)

Great, thanks Jon. As it happens, Trumpeter supply metal shafts. What colour would you recommend?

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3 hours ago, andyelbac said:

Another question. I know the propellers are brass, but what would the prop shafts have been made from.....steel?

Props were (are) manganese bronze, prop shafts are steel, but as Jamie says, would be painted antifouling on the exposed surfaces

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Gidday, I've often wondered about the colour of the shafts, thanks for answering. This I think answers another question I've wondered about - are the shafts inside a sleeve/tube for their full length from the hull to the bearings and screws themselves or open to the sea once they leave the hull. I guess exposed, otherwise the question of whether they're painted wouldn't have arisen.

     Sorry if this seems a dumb question. Regards, Jeff.

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Looking at Sovereign Hobbies website, WWIi RN anti fouling paint is a sort of brick red, described as NARN42. I would guess then I could use this fir the exposed areas of the prop shafts and the entire hull below the waterline? Hey @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies, before I go spending on incorrect colours, would you be able to confirm if that is correct please?

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There has been a whole lot more complexity to RN anti fouling paints which has been uncovered recently, and it's become clear that several different colours were in use corresponding to which commercial product was used for each ship. I personally have nothing on HMS Rodney, but I'll tag @dickrd in case he has something specific as he now has a longer list than I do. Maybe it'll result in nothing but it's worth asking the question before making a commitment in any way.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

Props were (are) manganese bronze, prop shafts are steel, but as Jamie says, would be painted antifouling on the exposed surfaces

 

(If we're talking modern propellers, nickel-aluminum bronze has nearly fully replaced manganese bronze)

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I've fitted the internal bracing to the hull (as the photo below shows):

2022-04-14_11-26-54

I've also fitted the stabalisers and offered up the prop shafts (Trumpeter do provide metal ones) into their mounting holes. Here we have a problem. Trumpeter's engineering dept. appear to have a loose association with the concept of tight tolerances. The shafts are 2.5mm in dia., the hole for the shafts to exit the hull are about 4.5mm. The holes are to big to be anything but very noticable with these shafts, especially as the only area of interest on the lower hull is the pushy part:

2022-04-14_11-27-04

Now I happen to have some Albion Alloy friction fit aluminium tubes. Lovely pieces of work in 3, 4 and 5 mm o/d.:

2022-04-14_11-27-19

In the photo above you can just see the three Ali. tubes inserted into each other and the kit shaft to the left. Do I use the 3mm tube and use progressive 4 and 5 mm tubes as outer sheaths, having the outer ones internally mounted with the ends flush with the exit hole? It will mean opening up the exit hole slightly and the receiving holes in both the propellers and propshaft supports (unfortunately the kit shaft won't fit inside the 3mm ali. tube)? It may even mean the propshaft visible to the outer eye may be slightly over scale, although a gold star to anyone who could possibly tell. Dry fitting will provide the answer.

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10 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

There has been a whole lot more complexity to RN anti fouling paints which has been uncovered recently, and it's become clear that several different colours were in use corresponding to which commercial product was used for each ship. I personally have nothing on HMS Rodney, but I'll tag @dickrd in case he has something specific as he now has a longer list than I do. Maybe it'll result in nothing but it's worth asking the question before making a commitment in any way.

 

 

Sorry, I have no documentation re Rodney's anti fouling. Photos show that it was significantly lighter than the boot topping so black can be ruled out. 

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12 hours ago, dickrd said:

Sorry, I have no documentation re Rodney's anti fouling. Photos show that it was significantly lighter than the boot topping so black can be ruled out. 

Thank you and @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies for your advice. On this basis I will use NARN42. Most people would expect to see some sort of red below the waterline and without any definitive evidence of what Rodney was painted with, whose to say NARN42 is wrong?

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Bummer. Just logged onto the Sovereign Hobbies website and it appears NARN42 is out of stock. Oh well, will push on with the hull. I figure I can apply the camo scheme first and follow up with the hull bottom and boot toppings later. First though, fix the prop shaft issue and start drilling out the portholes.

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On 3/20/2022 at 8:33 AM, andyelbac said:

2022-03-20_08-26-15

 

 

Oh my! And to think that I was offering you advice on working with PE. That's like Capt. Mainwaring (Warminster-On-Sea) telling Gen. Eisenhower how to run the war. I blush!

On 3/20/2022 at 8:33 AM, andyelbac said:

2022-03-20_08-26-15

 

 

Oh my! And to think that I was offering you advice on working with PE. That's like Capt. Mainwaring (Warminster-On-Sea) telling Gen. Eisenhower how to run the war. I blush!

On 3/20/2022 at 8:33 AM, andyelbac said:

2022-03-20_08-26-15

 

 

Oh my! And to think that I was offering you advice on working with PE. That's like Capt. Mainwaring (Warminster-On-Sea) telling Gen. Eisenhower how to run the war. I blush!

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1 hour ago, andyelbac said:

Bummer. Just logged onto the Sovereign Hobbies website and it appears NARN42 is out of stock. Oh well, will push on with the hull. I figure I can apply the camo scheme first and follow up with the hull bottom and boot toppings later. First though, fix the prop shaft issue and start drilling out the portholes.

 

There's a new batch about to go on the website within the next few working days. My wife has painted the lids and it just needs decanted when she gets time.

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2 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

There's a new batch about to go on the website within the next few working days. My wife has painted the lids and it just needs decanted when she gets time.

Great! Thanks Jamie. Will put a reminder in my diary for a few days time.

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3 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

Oh my! And to think that I was offering you advice on working with PE. That's like Capt. Mainwaring (Warminster-On-Sea) telling Gen. Eisenhower how to run the war. I blush!

 

Oh my! And to think that I was offering you advice on working with PE. That's like Capt. Mainwaring (Warminster-On-Sea) telling Gen. Eisenhower how to run the war. I blush!

 

Oh my! And to think that I was offering you advice on working with PE. That's like Capt. Mainwaring (Warminster-On-Sea) telling Gen. Eisenhower how to run the war. I blush!

Hi, no need to blush. I'm astonished at myself for how the etch has turned out. As I have said on a few occasions, other than the odd vagueness in their photo's, the Pontos etch has been a pleasure to work with. Besides, I've yet to start on the crane yet.....which may yet prove to be my nemesis!

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On 09/04/2022 at 14:08, andyelbac said:

I like MIG primer. I have some on my desk. I quite like using it. The one I really struggle with is Vallejo primer. No matter how many variations of thinner to paint mix, I always end up with a clogged nozzle fairly early on in the painting process. I'm pretty certain this is poor workmanship and not poor materials!

Sorry catching up here on this thread but the trick (for me) with vallejo primer is to use their airbrush flow improver with the primer, their thinner causes it to harden too quickly and clog up (although I may thin it with a drop or two of the thinner as needed). With their paints I generally just use distilled water to thin it, so I think not a workmanship issue here at all!

 

David

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12 minutes ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

Sorry catching up here on this thread but the trick (for me) with vallejo primer is to use their airbrush flow improver with the primer, their thinner causes it to harden too quickly and clog up (although I may thin it with a drop or two of the thinner as needed). With their paints I generally just use distilled water to thin it, so I think not a workmanship issue here at all!

 

David

Hi David, distilled water? I haven't tried that. I will give that a go with my next armour kit, although with this being such a big piece of plastic I'm going to stick to a rattle can for the primer for Rodney and spray it out on my patio.

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5 minutes ago, andyelbac said:

Hi David, distilled water? I haven't tried that. I will give that a go with my next armour kit, although with this being such a big piece of plastic I'm going to stick to a rattle can for the primer for Rodney and spray it out on my patio.

Distilled water for their paints, but flow improver with their primer. I'd use normal tap water, but the stuff that comes out the taps in London can leave a milky residue when it dries...

 

Equally, for my RN ships I just use colourcoats (might explain where the NARN42 has gone!).

 

David

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I didn't get on too well with Vallejo paints and their own thinnner. Like David, I'm using distilled or de-ionised water, plus IPA and some Vallejo flow improver. It works a lot better.

It's about 50/50 water/IPA and a few drops of the flow improver

Haven't tried the mix with their primer yet

 

/P

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1 minute ago, psdavidson said:

IPA

:yikes: Indian Pale Ale ? 
Surely not, but then each to his own. 😂😂😂😂

Jon

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I have to admit I spray Vallejo paint as it comes and have no problems. But then I don't have large areas to paint either. I don't use primer, I just spray Tamiya white or light grey to give an even base.

 

I don't wash my parts either.

 

I know, I'm a heathen!

 

Ian

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A reminder of the problem: possibly I was too harsh on Trumpeter's Engineering Dept. Perhaps the over large prop shaft openings are to accommodate those who wish to convert this kit into a remote controlled model. Irrespective, the issue remained that the kit prop shafts were too small for the moulded openings:

2022-04-17_08-16-25

My initial idea was to utilise the progressively smaller aluminium tubes from Albion Alloys. However, when I offered them up to the internal recess it was obvious that the outer tube diameter (5mm) was too big. I toyed briefly with the idea of heating the outer tube and melting it into the recess but quickly realised this would be a BAD idea (amazingly I hadn't even had a glass of wine when this moment of clarity came over me!). The solution was to dispense with the 5mm tube and just utilise the 4 and 3mm tubes. To cut the tubes I used my S&K tuhe cutter (available from Ebay at just a few pounds):

2022-04-17_08-16-37

 It produces a swage that needs filing off and the end usually needs drilling out, but it's a useful little tool. Then it was a simple case of threading the 3mm tube through the prop shaft support (appropriately drilled out using a 3mm drill) and into the 4mm tube sitting snugly in the recess moulded into the hull interior. Here you can see the 4mm tube fixed into the recess using a judicious amount of epoxy resin:

2022-04-17_08-51-41

And here is the 3mm shaft threaded through the prop shaft support and into the corresponding 4mm tube:

2022-04-17_08-51-27

 I think it looks so much better than using the Trumpeter supplied prop shafts. Also, it may not be evident from the photo but the prop shaft support mounting holes are a poor fit and will require filling and sanding. This will likely mean I won't be in a position to finish the hull for priming before I start back at work on Wednesday. Still, I can console myself by continuing with the painting of my shed. An epic undertaking which makes the painting of the Forth Bridge seem like an minor endeavor. One coat my a**e!

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I've started drilling out the portholes. There are 111 on the port side (I presume the same number on the starboard side). I'm using my pin vice and a 1.9mm drill bit. The opening should be 2mm I think but will go through them again with the 2mm bit once I have opened them all up. There are also various smaller holes which I will also need to open up. I presume these are holes for the bilges? As you can imagine, it's a pain in the a**e. My index finger has been rubbed sore so I offered it to my partner for inspection and a kiss better. She was less than sympathetic 😥 Anyway, here's a boring shot of the port side with holes drilled:

2022-04-19_12-39-46

 Evidence that Trumpeter never intended for the portholes to be drilled out is demonstrated by this picture:

2022-04-19_12-39-57

 The holes on these portholes go straight through where the deck will sit. I don't think it's an issue but I won't know until I offer up the kit deck. Unfortunately posts will slow down a bit from here on in. I have a new contract and start my new job tomorrow so the opportunity for working on Rodney will be limited during the day, but I hope to post at least every weekend and the odd weekday evening where possible. Until then.....

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Ah, porthole drilling !
I’ve spent many a happy(?) hour doing this.

And I admit, on occasion, only drilling out those on the side that will be displayed. I am not proud of this but.........

And good luck with the new job.

Jon

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2 hours ago, Faraway said:

Ah, porthole drilling !
I’ve spent many a happy(?) hour doing this.

And I admit, on occasion, only drilling out those on the side that will be displayed. I am not proud of this but.........

And good luck with the new job.

Jon

Jon..?...shocked! 😉

50 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday, you're probably holding the pin vise wrong! 😫 

 

Good luck with the new job. Regards, Jeff.

Cheers Jeff!

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