HMS Rodney Build Log - 1/200

[ArnoldAmbrose]

33 minutes ago, andyelbac said:

You're going to make your own propellers?

       Yeah, IIRC I've made two lots now. A set of four for my 1941 version of HMS Hood and a set of two for my recent HMS Glamorgan. Hood's were three bladed and 7.5mm across, Glamorgan's were five bladed and 5mm across. They're a bit rough though, not as good as those beautiful Pontos screws you've got. The Airfix screws of their range of 1/600 scale ships usually leave a bit to be desired so I've tried making my own. Hence my question as to the size of yours. I'll be starting a whiffed version of HMS Nelson (I'll be calling her HMS Cochrane) in December. And thank you very much for your help.

       Regards, Jeff.

[S-boat 55]

1 hour ago, andyelbac said:

Yes, it is. I will definitely be swapping out the Trumpeter screws for the Pontos ones, although I might need to think about how to tone down the glossy look. Surely brass propellers would not have looked that shiny, even when new?

I shouldn't imagine so, in photos the always look smooth but not glossy, 

[Dave Swindell]

3 hours ago, andyelbac said:

Surely brass propellers would not have looked that shiny, even when new?

A couple of propellers after polishing - it's not a high gloss, and there's usually a distinct pattern following the direction of the polishing tools

 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I don't think patterns were quite so methodical in the 1940s though. I get the impression that polishing of the bronze was done a bit more randomly.

 

 

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

24 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I get the impression that polishing of the bronze was done a bit more randomly.

It would be a good job to allocate to MUPs (men under punishment). 😁 It might be a bit difficult while under way though. 🙁

But seriously, that's a great photo of the screws, the shape of the blades, the struts etc. Thanks for sharing/posting it.

And apologies to @andyelbac if this has hijacked your thread a bit.       Regards, Jeff.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

double posting, sorry.

[Killingholme]

1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

 

 

That's a very poor masking job on the boot-topping. Lot's of bleed paint through...!

[Faraway]

3 hours ago, Killingholme said:

That's a very poor masking job on the boot-topping. Lot's of bleed paint through...!

Not sure about masking ? Looks like freehand to me.

Jon

[andyelbac]

On 24/10/2022 at 16:00, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday Andy, that's exactly what I wanted. Those two figures equate to 14.3 feet (which is smaller than Hood's 15-foot and KGV's 14.5-foot screws) and 16 feet respectively. I've read that Nelson's screws were "quite large" so I'm wondering if the Pontos screws are the more accurate.

       Anyway, this gives me an idea of what size to make mine. The photos give me an idea of the blade shape too, so many thanks for taking the time to measure and reply. Good luck with the rest of your build, I'll continue to follow it.

Regards, Jeff.

Wait...What!? You're going to make your own propellers? RESPECT!

[andyelbac]

It's been a while since I updated the build time. I'm currently sitting at 178 hours. I did intend to lay down a few more light coats of anti-fouling Red last night but as sunset here in the south east of England is currently about 18:45 and I don't like painting in artificial light, I decided to crack open the PE again. This time it's the catapult. Here are the Pontos instructions:

 First up is a sub-assembly (top left in the marked area). Here Pontos made a rare mistake. The first part is numbered 662 but should actually be 543. It was also clear from the sprues that Pontos envisaged you building two of these although their instructions think differently. A quick check of the Trumpeter instructions indicated that two are required:

Here are the parts for the first one:

 Some parts have already been folded. Here's a closer shot of the instructions for this sub-assembly:

 It was a little tricky but overall I managed to build a close representation of how Pontos have it:

 If you enlarge the picture below you will see that I couldn't quite close up the gap on the angled end but at actual scale it's hardly noticeable:

 Hopefully more to follow over the next few days.

[andyelbac]

A bit more effort over the last few nights working on the catapult. I finished the second sub-assembly and started on the main section. Here are the parts to complete just part of the main section. In all there are approx. 100 pcs to make the entire catapult assembly, as opposed to 25 for the Trumpeter version.

Above you can see the initial components laid out. I've already formed the main structure. Here you can see the six internal support braces that sit along the bottom, slotting into cut outs on the bottom and sides:

Then what I presume are two steam pistons (?) sitting on top of those supports:

A couple of pulleys are fitted, held in by two brass pins and then a long ladder frame brace sits midway down the assembly, running the length of the catapult. Again, these fit into pre cut slots in the sides. It isn't apparent in the photos but I couldn't get the ladder frame to sit level, it being slightly deformed upwards in the middle. I think this is probably due to a bottom support brace not seating properly. Hopefully it won't prevent the two sub assemblies from sliding in:

. Finally, I added the angled exterior side braces:

Next up are the legs that seat the catapult onto the turret roof, fitting of more pistons and associated other pieces. Photos soon. That's another 6 hours bringing the total to 184.

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Andy, that's very intricate work with the catapult. With about a hundred pieces it's almost a model in it's own right.

Those of you who do models with such detail have my greatest admiration, I don't think I could ever do a model to this standard. Besides, where would I put it once it's done? 😲

Carry on the good work.       Regards, Jeff.

[Faraway]

[andyelbac]

46 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday Andy, that's very intricate work with the catapult. With about a hundred pieces it's almost a model in it's own right.

Those of you who do models with such detail have my greatest admiration, I don't think I could ever do a model to this standard. Besides, where would I put it once it's done? 😲

Carry on the good work.       Regards, Jeff.

Thanks Jeff.

[andyelbac]

I put in a few more hours early this morning on the catapult. Here are the support legs that mount the catapult onto the turret roof. It's likely these would have raised the catapult base off from the roof but trying to assemble these to replicate that was just too difficult, so the finished assembly will sit flush on the turret top. I don't think it will be particularly noticeable. Here are the legs and end supports prior to bending:

 and here they are formed to shape:

 It's been a while since I had to turrets out from their storage box and I forgot how big they are:

 Here we are with the legs and forward 'end' bracing attached:

 

 The rear 'end' bracing attaches to the rear face of the turret. After repeated placement issues I found it was easier to attach this piece directly to the turret and then butt the catapult up to it when I reach final assembly:

 The two 'tram' lines on the turret roof are placement markers to assist in locating the catapult correctly. This is what the finished article should look like (currently minus the plane cradle):

 At this point the catapult has not been permanently fixed to the turret. I shall paint both items separately before gluing. Another shot here showing the rear 'end' support. I will carefully bend the support towards the catapult once glued in place:

 Next up; various other components to be added, including cabling and steam piston:

 Here's the finished item. Well, almost. The cradle still needs to be built and the small etched part to the right of the catapult still needs to be attached. I think I know where it goes, I just need to figure out how! I may need to bastardise it to make it fit. The item on the lower left is some kind of locker that sits in a frame next to the catapult:

Here's a shot of the opposite side:

 and finally a few shots of how the finished catapult should look when mounted, again, minus the cradle and of course the Walrus:

 

 

 

 

 That brings me to 187 hours in total to date.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Andy, superb, and waaaay out of my league.       Regards, Jeff.

[andyelbac]

I've just spent over two hours trying to assemble the Walrus cradle that runs along the top of the catapult. It turned out to be a bridge too far. A piece of brass and PE so hateful that I hope never to come across anything else like it ever again. I'm not even going to post pictures of it. Just when I thought I had cracked it, off pings various bits of brass into the lair of the Carpet Monster. Replacing those proved to be problematic with the whole assembly  looking lopsided. I resisted the urge to CRUSH the entire assembly into a tiny ball of scrap. I might revert to the Trumpeter cradle when it comes time to go the final assembly. In the meantime, I've kept the Pontos cradle for another day, hopefully when my blood pressure has reduced! 

[robgizlu]

22 hours ago, andyelbac said:

I've just spent over two hours trying to assemble the Walrus cradle that runs along the top of the catapult. It turned out to be a bridge too far. A piece of brass and PE so hateful that I hope never to come across anything else like it ever again. I'm not even going to post pictures of it. Just when I thought I had cracked it, off pings various bits of brass into the lair of the Carpet Monster. Replacing those proved to be problematic with the whole assembly  looking lopsided. I resisted the urge to CRUSH the entire assembly into a tiny ball of scrap. I might revert to the Trumpeter cradle when it comes time to go the final assembly. In the meantime, I've kept the Pontos cradle for another day, hopefully when my blood pressure has reduced! 

Andy - sorry to hear that - I think you've done an excellent job to date - the detail really comes alive in 1/200.  Give it a while and then return - Don't bin it!!!

Rob

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I have found that spares can be had from Pontos but as it's only Keumho Kim himself there who can communicate in English, and then he leans heavily on a translator app on his phone (we've met numerous times) and none of his packing staff speak English, it's imperative to word the request as briefly and plainly as possible such that a translator app can help him understand immediately which fret you want. As a general observation, and I'm doing it now, we native English speakers do waffle on a bit with complex sentences and metaphorical phraseology which simply doesn't translate into Korean. You'll read online countless complaints of poor after sales from Pontos but 99% of them are simply because didn't know what on earth they were talking about.

 

If you do want to request a spare fret (he does know the English phrase "carpet monster"!) then I suggest you go a mail which states "Dear Keumho Kim, I have set 23007F1 HMS Rodney. I have lost parts 721,722 and 723* from Fret 8 to carpet monster. Please can I buy replacement Fret 8? My shipping address is: ..."

 

*Obviously I'm guessing which bits from the cradle have pinged off. Spare frets are usually available. Spare turned brass bits a bit less so but still worth asking. He'll probably apologise for the cost of EMS shipping in return.

[andyelbac]

On 18/03/2022 at 11:27, Bertie McBoatface said:

May I suggest annealing your brass? Pass it through a clean flame, not a candle, until it glows then let it cool slowly. This will soften up the metal and also kill the shine making it easier to paint. 
 

Railings are so tiny that there’s a danger of melting them so practice with old ones if you have them. I admit I haven’t ever used railings but this works with ordinary PE. 
 

Good luck

Thanks Jamie, I do have a new fret on the way (although not to cover this part). It did take ages to get a response; probably because, as you say, I made it a little too complicated. I think I will seek replacement parts (if I can get them), as it would be a pity to revert to the Trumpeter kit part. Thanks also for the recommended wordage to use!

[andyelbac]

Here we are with the boot toppings done. I wish this was the end of working on the hull but I'm thinking of adding some discoloration at the transition between the bottom of the dazzle scheme and the top of the boot toppings which always seem to be prevalent at the waterline on boats. Am I right in assuming the top of the boot toppings would be roughly where the waterline would be? Anyway, after that I will give the whole hull a few good coats of Klear and then think about mild weathering including streaking from bilges and the odd scuttle. I think it will have to be a light, delicate application. A question on the stern name plates. Pontos provide these in etch. Would they have been painted over during the war or left as polished brass? Back to the hull. You would think that painting a straight line would be easy. It wasn't. I'm guessing there are a few tricks of the trade I should have enquired about before painting the boot toppings; I'm not ecstatic about the way it came out but overall I can live with the result. You can see in the final photo below that I have some touching up to do on the rear most stern access door. I suspect I didn't give the paint sufficient time to dry and harden before applying the masking tape. Once I've done all of the above I can paint the barbettes and then onto applying the wood deck. Whether I get to that point before flying off for a Christmas holiday is debatable but I'm certainly looking forward to all the above deck activity!:

 

 

Apologies for the poor lightning.

[Faraway]

Beautiful paint work, VERY neat.

I’m no expert, but from photos I’ve seen of real ships, the waterline is just below the boot topping. But don’t put any money on it.

If that was my build, and was mounting it in a display base, I’d leave the paint work alone, NO weathering or staining.

However, if mounting it on a seascape base, then definitely weather the ship.

But that’s just me.

Jon

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Andy, I've always thought that the waterline was at the bottom edge of the boot topping. I think she's superbly painted. Regards, Jeff.

[Rich75]

Beautiful paintwork well done!, as for boot  toppings I thought they cover the area between light and heavy load and constantly in/out of the water, so waterline at the bottom?

[andyelbac]

23 hours ago, Faraway said:

Beautiful paint work, VERY neat.

I’m no expert, but from photos I’ve seen of real ships, the waterline is just below the boot topping. But don’t put any money on it.

If that was my build, and was mounting it in a display base, I’d leave the paint work alone, NO weathering or staining.

However, if mounting it on a seascape base, then definitely weather the ship.

But that’s just me.

Jon

Thanks Jon, I thought about leaving the paint as is (it would certainly save me some more work), but from my armour builds I have come to like the finish that a gloss coat followed by a wash or filter brings to a kit. One things for sure; it will definitely be less not more.